Why are salaries in the US so much higher?

boreder wrote: »

$150k = $100k after taxes. Even with the (exaggerated greatly) high cost of living here, that is a fine salary, presuming its not a single income family. You could get a better than average 1 bed apartment for that in or around the city and still have ~$64k to live on. Besides property, nothing else is really THAT more expensive than Ireland. Cars are significantly cheaper, fuel is significantly cheaper, food is similar (outside of Whole Foods), night out... maybe a little more expensive in built up areas, but given he receipts I've seen for Temple Bar recently, not a million miles away. Clothes, footwear, electronics, books are all markedly cheaper.

Funnily enough I type this now from San Mateo, just outside San Francisco. Literally here on vacation. And I just came out from a twelve month onsite contract in Dublin, so I can compare directly.

Here is definitely more expensive than Dublin. Roughly +20% for grocery costs. Yes, booze and petrol are cheaper, but I was fairly aghast coming out of a local supermarket, we were in Yosemite last week and it was much cheaper, and Yosemite has a hefty tourist markup. Restaurants have also been consistently pricey, and we're eating here in San Mateo a suburb, not downtown, and at chain rather than fine restaurants.

I will agree it's not a million miles away cost wise from central Dublin. We're not talking Swiss levels of cost where a cheeseburger is thirty euro. I can't speak for rent, but I know a number of Google engineers paying four grand a month for a one bedroom flat. Dublin isn't quite that pricey, yet at least.

Further, if you didn't want to live like a king, and shared a place with someone, it'd be a mine for savings. You could easily live comfortably and have $30-35k savings at the end of the year.

I don't doubt for a second that a single young person living in shared accommodation can bank a ton load of money in a short time here. A friend of mine from Quebec invested four years here, and banked enough cash to deposit a house in Quebec, get married and start a family.

But if you have kids, here is highly uncompetitive. I've dropped over five hundred euro already in three days on children's activities. Here is expensive if you have children relative to elsewhere. World class children's activities, definitely, you wouldn't find that Academy of Sciences we visited today anywhere in Europe. But it was over a hundred dollars to get in, and that's fairly average here. I've filled a day with kid's activities in Indiana for thirty dollars, including ice cream.

Obviously all this depends on what you personally fill your leisure time with. If you're very ascetic and single, Silicon Valley can work out great for you relative to other places. But most people aren't like that, or can't be that. I also know of FAANG developers who lived out of RVs in parking lots due to be unable to find affordable accommodation nearby. I know of developers who dropped three million to buy a one bedroom house. Silicon Valley is approaching peak bubble, with all the crazy nonsense peak bubble comes with, like graduate hires being paid $200k, which sorry, is just daft, they can't and don't add that kind of value. Very soon now there will be a collapse, and this place will empty out within weeks, just as it did the last two or three times. It'll be that great game of musical chairs, whoever survives prospers, but they're the very lucky ones.

The total number of developers worldwide has roughly doubled every five years for thirty years now. I expect that to continue. But it means this next bubble pop will be especially bloody in terms of absolute numbers of displaced workers unable to find any job in software development.

Niall

awec wrote: »

Bear in mind there is pretty much no job security in the US and redundancy is nothing like over here, and you should factor this in when comparing salaries. In the US there is a much higher expectation for individuals to look after themselves if it goes tits up.

That guy earning 400k a year in the US could be just told not to come in the next day cause they don’t want him any more, and get nothing for it.

If you compare salaries there with salaries here plus the value of added protection and other benefits (paid holidays, paid sick etc) it’s not that different really. They still earn more, but not hugely.

Job protections are a good bit stronger on a state by state basis though. California is better than most, but not as good as Massachusetts which is about the same as Europe. In California, like in Europe, your job cannot assert IP rights over everything you produce outside of work, for example. They also cannot dictate whether you can participate in open source. In most US states, you need to get permission first, and it's usually denied.

On paid holidays, there is an amazing variation per contract even within the same firm, because it's seen as something you negotiate at signing. Some on this forum may remember I am in the process of leaving contracting, going full time permanent remote. I have a four-way bidding war currently going to hire me, and the vacation time on offer varies between public holidays only, three weeks including public holidays, and two weeks plus no more than seven public holidays. I'm currently counter offering with six weeks total, which is very slightly better than the Irish statutory minimum.

And even that (a ~6% bump in pay effectively) is being slow played a bit. But I've a very strong hand in having four suitors. I will prevail!

Niall

In addition comparable healthcare costs are ridiculously high ; you absolutely need to figure these costs in .

As a couple of posters above have also mentioned , holiday days are far less. What we take for granted 20-25 at start of employment is viewed as huge by most private sector USA workers.

smacl wrote: »

Very best of luck with it. Do you find that there is an expectation to get a reduced salary for working remote based on location?

There are several categories of remote worker.

For remote-only or remote-mostly companies, the going pay rate is about $120k for a senior dev. This is a gross figure not including share options before employer payroll taxes etc, so lop off 15-40% depending on jurisdiction to get what the full time onsite employee would think they earn for some country.

This income seems to not vary much anywhere in the world. Everybody pays the same and earns the same. Great for those living in a cheap country, bad for those centre of Silicon Valley.

For companies hiring a remote worker as a special case because of a rare skillset, the pay will be up to a third below what they'd get onsite for the inconvenience of remote, and differences in working time between the US and any other country. But a third less of lots is still lots, a remote role might pay 250k instead of 330k onsite, but I'd say most here would gladly take that in Ireland.

Finally then there is the case of the internationally famous engineer. They get to demand any conditions they like and have multiple companies bid against each other. If they want remote they get remote. Pay might be discounted I guess, but these guys are in the seven figures range anyway. At the very top there is huge variation between pay offers, no consistency. One place may offer three million, another 500k. Usually people up there choose based on how interesting the work will be, and are independently wealthy anyway from previous employments. Nice place to be.

So I guess the answer is yes, usually there is a discount, except for remote only employers, who only hire senior devs and the pay is remarkably consistent worldwide.

Niall