Is anybody mourning the loss of Manly /Womanly arts?

Graces7 · 30-12-2018 09:21AM

badabing106 wrote: »

Another time a group of us were driving to electric picnic and witnessed a distressed couple at the side of the road, they had a flat tyre. I asked them did they need a hand.I always leave 2 hours early in case of emergencies like this. They didn't have a wrench, but said it was okay as they rang the AA. I said you'll be waiting at least 3 hours, you don't want to miss the concert. I offered to change the Tyre for them, and they were on the road again in 20 minutes

depends on age. I could teach anyone how to change a wheel but my body will no longer bend etc...

Last time a tyre blew I sat in the layby with my good old aluminium crutch in full view

First car to pass stopped and it emerged there was a tyre depot round the corner ...

sorted.... half the skill of survival is knowing where to get help for things you cannot do.

Hoboo · 30-12-2018 09:37AM

Graces7 wrote: »

sorted.... half the skill of survival is knowing where to get help for things you cannot do.

Yeah like the AA, a cleaning service, a builder, a gardener.

All found on Google.

I'm not sure Rambo would interpret survival the same way.

30-12-2018 10:12AM

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

Most of you would indeed be useless, You would rely on us older ones who still have all the skills as i do out here. maybe I should run summer schools... out here it is do or do without.

How well would you manage with no internet and no pension?

How about without anyone willing to make up for the defecits of your body in spite of the mind?

Ready, willing, able. That’s what it takes. Not age.

30-12-2018 10:44AM

There are a few books that can help impart great life skills:

The SAS Survival Handbook by John ‘Lofty’ Wiseman

The Collins DIY Manual

The 4 Seasons Cookery Book by Margaret Costa

Scouting for Boys by Robert Baden-Powell

With a practical approach to learning by doing, these 4 books would set most people up with the ability to do a huge amount for themselves and to cope with much of what life may throw at them.

Graces7 · 30-12-2018 11:05AM

JayZeus wrote: »

How well would you manage with no internet and no pension?

How about without anyone willing to make up for the defecits of your body in spite of the mind?

Ready, willing, able. That’s what it takes. Not age.

what are you on about please? I was without internet a year here and did just fine. pension?

we all need each other. period. I help many with my skills and they help me with theirs. My mind; their muscle.

and age brings experience and skills that we can pass on to younger ones.

"those who can do.. those who cannot, teach."

Graces7 · 30-12-2018 11:08AM

Hoboo wrote: »

Yeah like the AA, a cleaning service, a builder, a gardener.

All found on Google.

I'm not sure Rambo would interpret survival the same way.

Funny! and where I live on a remote island, we have to rely on our own skills and those of our neighbours, who rely on us in the same way. No AA or cleaning service or builder out here..

Galwayguy35 · 30-12-2018 11:14AM

Anyone who doesn't know how to light a fire, change a tyre, keep the oil topped up in their car, bleed a heater, use jump leads, foot turf, change a bulb or use a needle needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 30-12-2018 11:31AM

Bassfish wrote: »

I learned to iron, sow and wash clothes when I joined the FCA at 15 as my mother who was from an 'old IRA' family refused to touch my 'free-stater' uniform

Were you issued a housewife? (serious question).

When I joined the army back in the 80's one piece of kit issued (not sure if its still an issue but I doubt it) was the 'housewife'.

Basically it was a pouch containing spare cloth, needle and tread, a small spool of wool for mending your socks, spare buttons, safety pins & other bits and bobs that a soldier might need.

I still pack one when I'm out biking or traveling, this and a Leatherman multi tool. I wouldn't be without either.

Sardonicat · 30-12-2018 12:18PM

^^^^^^
Do any of those show how to work your latest "white goods"*. Cos that's the level of uselessness some of us are talking about here

* The Colombian one, perhaps?

WildWater · 30-12-2018 12:20PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Moulded plugs that you can't open to change the fuse. Has to be chucked and a new lead with plug ordered and paid for.

Personally, I'd have cut the plug off, stripped the wires and fitted a new plug.

dense · 30-12-2018 12:41PM

WildWater wrote: »

Personally, I'd have cut the plug off, stripped the wires and fitted a new plug.

Yeah, until the time comes that they stop selling 3-pin plugs separately!

Won't be long!

Even 4 gang extension sockets sets are now sealed meaning it's nearly impossible to remove or extend/replace the cable.

dense · 30-12-2018 12:55PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Electrical stuff I"d be cautious about, other than changing plugs, checking trip switches and simple stuff like that. Water is straightforward enough and can't kill you with a touch. I've swapped out taps and the like and with a mate plumbed a bathroom, including jacks and shower. Tiled it too. A few years back I repaired a boiler too. The fan died in it. Simple job, got said fan from the UK from an official agent and even with the exchange rate it was a third of the price they wanted here(plus labour to fit it).

A trained guy will be faster of course(if they decide to be), but this stuff is hardly rocket surgery. Plus I've had problems with officially registered and trained guys in the past. Never mind prices which are usually well padded out with the Paddy Tax™ and not showing up when arranged, but actually ripping me off and/or screwing up the job. A good plumber, sparks etc are worth their weight in gold, but finding one can be difficult and price is near zero guarantee of ability or results. Indeed I have found the pricier are often the worst of them.

Having watched the same do home improvements with neighbours and relatives and the slow progress and minor to major screwups and mad costs, I'd personally do as much as I could myself with the help of mates who know their stuff.

Same as that. Most of what can be repaired nowadays can be learnt about from YouTube anyway which is a resource we never had before.
It's having the balls to start the job is the hard part.

Also nowadays we have fantastic and cheap power tools. Imagine trying to put up a shelf 40 years ago.....

Personally don't like any plumbing jobs there's such a magnitude of sizes etc.

That said we have the same electric shower for the last 18 years, but it's like Trigger's brush.
The neighbours go through a brand new one every 3 or 4 years though.

I remember my parents would be fairly regularly wallpapering and painting (even though neither were great DIYers) and rearranging furniture "for a change" when I was young.
People don't seem to to that anymore!

A mate of mine is convinced there's an opening for someone to set up a business going around cleaning out fires and setting them for people everyday!!

30-12-2018 01:07PM

Graces7 wrote: »

what are you on about please? I was without internet a year here and did just fine. pension?

we all need each other. period. I help many with my skills and they help me with theirs. My mind; their muscle.

and age brings experience and skills that we can pass on to younger ones.

"those who can do.. those who cannot, teach."

We don’t all need everyone. Some people have little of value to contribute and old age certainly doesn’t impart any extra worth to ones opinions.

Without a financial income in the form of disability allowance or a pension, how well would you fare? If you don’t have the ability to ‘do’, what makes you think you’re somehow suitable to ‘teach’? Experience alone doesn’t equate to something of value to be exchanged to meet your basic needs.

So, you might think your decades of life experience have some value in itself, when I’d argue that people can be largely self sufficient by quickly adapting and learning how to do things for themselves, even without any input from the older generation, especially when there’s nothing to suggest the experience was truly earned by ‘doing’. That’s my point.

It really bugs me that people think younger folk are practically useless and would remain so without ‘sage advice’ or ‘wisdom’ from older folks. Some older members of society have immense ability to help educate younger people, but age or arrogance don’t automatically give one that ability. Plenty of older people have serious problems understanding many facets of life for younger generations today. Being old makes you old, not automatically someone with something valuable to teach.

Bright young people can educate themselves perfectly adequately, even without any input from people who think they’re of more societal value than others might reasonably assess by virtue of being older.

NSAman · 30-12-2018 01:11PM

JayZeus wrote: »

We don’t all need everyone. Some people have little of value to contribute and old age certainly doesn’t impart any extra worth to ones opinions.

Without a financial income in the form of disability allowance or a pension, how well would you fare? If you don’t have the ability to ‘do’, what makes you think you’re somehow suitable to ‘teach’? Experience alone doesn’t equate to something of value to be exchanged to meet your basic needs.

So, you might think your decades of life experience have some value in itself, when I’d argue that people can be largely self sufficient by quickly adapting and learning how to do things for themselves, even without any input from the older generation, especially when there’s nothing to suggest the experience was truly earned by ‘doing’. That’s my point.

It really bugs me that people think younger folk are practically useless and would remain so without ‘sage advice’ or ‘wisdom’ from older folks. Some older members of society have immense ability to help educate younger people, but age or arrogance don’t automatically give one that ability. Plenty of older people have serious problems understanding many facets of life for younger generations today. Being old makes you old, not automatically someone with something valuable to teach.

Bright young people can educate themselves perfectly adequately, even without any input from people who think they’re of more societal value than others might reasonably assess by virtue of being older.

I see one thing some parents don’t teach in this post.. Respect!

30-12-2018 01:16PM

I can get a good fire going in a fireplace.
If we're talking about sticking me up a mountain with a couple of twigs i'd be a bit stuck now. sharpen a stick and twirl it for an hour

30-12-2018 01:17PM

NSAman wrote: »

I see one thing some parents don’t teach in this post.. Respect!

Rubbish.

Being old doesn’t entitle anyone to a default acceptance that what they have to say is correct.

Feisar · 30-12-2018 01:20PM

Skills come and go as needed.

My Dad can turn his hand to anything but I bet he can't cure hides or knap flint. It's more important now to be able to use an Ipad than know how to foot turf, times change.
And what happens when the first person sues a car manufacturer because they hurt their back changing a wheel? We'll have to call AA as wheels will be tamper proof. I'm being facetious but I may not be far off the mark.

NSAman · 30-12-2018 01:22PM

JayZeus wrote: »

Rubbish.

Being old doesn’t entitle anyone to a default acceptance that what they have to say is correct.

Doesn’t allow disrespect either based on a person’s situation.

bluelamp · 30-12-2018 01:41PM

How are people not broke if they can't carry out simple maintenance tasks?

If you had to pay someone for a few of the things mentioned in this thread you'd be into the thousands every year.

30-12-2018 01:42PM

NSAman wrote: »

Doesn’t allow disrespect either based on a person’s situation.

There's nothing disrespectful about it. I'm questioning why someone would think their years should lend them some ability to teach people something of any particular value.

And why life experience would give them something to exchange in some way for the things they can't provide for themselves. 'Some people are more equal than others', like it or not.

I'm no spring chicken myself. Sure, I've been there and done that when it comes to many things, but it would be arrogant to think that I know more and have a better understanding of anything than younger men and women, just because I've been breathing for longer than they have.

Every day I encounter younger people who impress me with their ability to find out for themselves what/how/why things work. Their different perspectives and experiences growing up in very different circumstances gives them an advantage in many ways and I'd never be so stuck up my own arse to think what I'd have to say is of more value than what they have to say.

I'd go so far as to say that younger people can more often teach older people more about the world we're all living in than vice versa. And age should not insulate people from that reality.

No matters one's age, it's worthwhile reflecting on exactly what you can contribute and to be realistic about the value of that contribution. Things you learned through experience decades ago are very often entirely irrelevant today. That's a fact.

I'm sure Graces7 is well meaning but her age doesn't mean I've to attribute worth to what she says, or to refrain from criticising what I see to be a fault in attitude towards the capabilities of the younger generations to be at least as good at providing for themselves and coping with things that life throws at them, entirely without her input.

Nothing personal about it. If you took the same approach, I'd argue exactly the same with your points.

NSAman · 30-12-2018 01:58PM

JayZeus wrote: »

There's nothing disrespectful about it. I'm questioning why someone would think their years should lend them some ability to teach people something of any particular value.

And why life experience would give them something to exchange in some way for the things they can't provide for themselves. 'Some people are more equal than others', like it or not.

I'm no spring chicken myself. Sure, I've been there and done that when it comes to many things, but it would be arrogant to think that I know more and have a better understanding of anything than younger men and women, just because I've been breathing for longer than they have.

Every day I encounter younger people who impress me with their ability to find out for themselves what/how/why things work. Their different perspectives and experiences growing up in very different circumstances gives them an advantage in many ways and I'd never be so stuck up my own arse to think what I'd have to say is of more value than what they have to say.

I'd go so far as to say that younger people can more often teach older people more about the world we're all living in than vice versa. And age should not insulate people from that reality.

No matters one's age, it's worthwhile reflecting on exactly what you can contribute and to be realistic about the value of that contribution. Things you learned through experience decades ago are very often entirely irrelevant today. That's a fact.

I'm sure Graces7 is well meaning but her age doesn't mean I've to attribute worth to what she says, or to refrain from criticising what I see to be a fault in attitude towards the capabilities of the younger generations to be at least as good at providing for themselves and coping with things that life throws at them, entirely without her input.

Nothing personal about it. If you took the same approach, I'd argue exactly the same with your points.

Likewise she doesn’t have to take personal attack from you.

Yes I agree that young people can teach us oldies something all the time... and that is why us OLDIES rely on younger people to work for companies.. its called youth and smarts.

Don’t go thinking though that ONLY young people know it all, they certainly do not. Age brings experience in some areas, it also brings some traits that are learned over time.

Forgive me for saying so, but your post was rather nasty in tone and that is what annoyed the hell out of me. There is nothing to be gained in life by being disrespectful to people.... call me old if you will.. but that is something that has been learnt with age and experience.

30-12-2018 02:02PM

bluelamp wrote: »

How are people not broke if they can't carry out simple maintenance tasks?

If you had to pay someone for a few of the things mentioned in this thread you'd be into the thousands every year.

Because everything today is shaped around providing yourself with the ability to pay for expertise, instead of developing the skills and fostering a mindset to help you tackle things yourself.

People would rather watch Netflix, go the gym/cinema/holidays or whatever, sit in an office earning a few quid to pay a tradesman or buy something new to add to or replace X than roll up their sleeves and get stuck in.

If parents, the educational system and communities in general encouraged people to develop practical ability, this wouldn't be anywhere near as prevalent an attitude. But employment ('creating' wealth to be spent), the exchequer's tax intake requirements and commercial interests are so dependent on making people a cog in a machine to keep everything 'moving forward' instead of moulding independently capable individuals, everything is structured to meet those demands.

I find it amusing to see people my age and younger learning for the first time how to do things I learned how to do as part of my childhood. The smile is strained though. It's so alien to me personally, but a clear indication of how sucked into things people are now.

On the flipside, it's heartening to see people trying really hard to rediscover the basic skills previous generations had developed, but it's going to take concerted individual effort to keep that moving in that direction. It should be encouraged wholeheartedly and I'd like to see more and more people realise they're capable of much more than they think.

A curious mind and experimentation is what's required though. People have to find their own way to learn, so it's authentic and based on real effort and understanding. Watching YouTube and being told 'how to' will only get anyone so far. Basic skill building, then the confidence to keep trying and keep evaluating to really learn.

I've made a simple decision a couple of years ago which was to refuse to buy anything made outside of Europe if I can help it. For modern devices like phones and computers, that's not possible. But anything else, I'd rather buy old and repair/restore to full functionality than pay Chinese industry to further erode the knowledgebase we've nearly lost completely. It's incredibly difficult at the start, but with some effort and familiarity, it's becoming easier all the time.

More and more people are realising that this isn't sustainable and that if they keep doing stupid things like that, the option to buy a long lasting and maintainable/repairable item will disappear.

The instant e-commerce platforms from Aliexpress, Best Deal offering cheap and and practically disposable products is pervasive. From clothing through toys and household items, it's affected everything. Who in their right mind is happy to pay hundreds of euro for a formerly high quality branded item, when all it takes it to look at the label and realise that something made in China, Cambodia or Vietnam simply shouldn't command the price being requested? Idiots. That's who.

Fix, repair or at least try to do so, before you give up and bin it. You'll learn more and as you do so you'll realise how capable you are and just how much you can do for yourself, no matter what you're taught to be the case.

looksee · 30-12-2018 02:07PM

My dad was not a practical person. He could drive a train and operate signals because he learned to do it in the army during WW11, but otherwise he was pretty hopeless when it came to making, mending and organising. My mother on the other hand could turn her hand to all manner of practical stuff - making clothes, house decorating, gardening etc. I grew up not only able to 'do practical stuff' but with a passion to do and learn. From very early I could sew, do bits of woodwork, make things - pretty much all self taught, I don't recall my mother actively teaching me though I must have picked things up.

My husband was even more impractical than my father so while he made a decent living out of being an academic, in the poorer days of the 80s I was more value at home doing stuff than having a job out of the house.

I always held the view that if I could make clothes and operate a sewing machine, which was 'acceptable', it should not be surprising that I could handle an electric drill or saw and install a kitchen - which I did, twice. I don't do plumbing or electrics - I can wire a plug or fix a slow-filling cistern - but I leave it to professionals otherwise.

I think practical skills are something you have - same as some people are academic, some can make music, some are leaders. Some people are just not practical. And oddly it is not so much a physical thing as a mind-set. In the past when it was more a survival thing to be able to do some practical things - set a fire, make bread, repair clothes and shoes - pride and necessity would force people to at least attempt them. For the moment the world is convenience and throw-away. This will have to change back as resources become more valuable again and skills will become valued again.

30-12-2018 02:08PM

NSAman wrote: »

Forgive me for saying so, but your post was rather nasty in tone and that is what annoyed the hell out of me. There is nothing to be gained in life by being disrespectful to people.... call me old if you will.. but that is something that has been learnt with age and experience.

No, you're getting your knickers in a twist because I'm dismissing age as a relevant factor. I don't care how old someone is. I don't care what their experience are unless they're of direct relevance to a given situation or need. I know plenty of 'oldies' who have nothing of any real value to say, despite their self professed 'experience'.

And while you may interpret this as some kind of hostile personal attack on you or someone else, it's not. It's just a criticism of someone assessing their potential 'value' as a teacher on the basis of a fundamentally flawed principle. Age and personal experience does not equate to expertise, ability or worth. It's as simple as that.

sk8erboii · 30-12-2018 02:09PM

This thread is becoming really cringy. I see old people fellate themselves because they can change tires or change a light bulb.

Meanwhile an old neighbor pajd me 200 eu to fix her printer. (aka update the driver lon her laptop) i only took 50 eu for the replacement cartridges.

Its something so basic a 10 year old can do. I can go on and on but hey lets hear about how you can start a fire with sticks...

NSAman · 30-12-2018 02:10PM

JayZeus wrote: »

No, you're getting your knickers in a twist because I'm dismissing age as a relevant factor. I don't care how old someone is. I don't care what their experience are unless they're of direct relevance to a given situation or need. I know plenty of 'oldies' who have nothing of any real value to say, despite their self professed 'experience'.

And while you may interpret this as some kind of hostile personal attack on you or someone else, it's not. It's just a criticism of someone assessing their potential 'value' as a teacher on the basis of a fundamentally flawed principle. Age and personal experience does not equate to expertise, ability or worth. It's as simple as that.

Jesus you really are angry.

Try to relax a little.

You obviously have great self-belief, that goes without saying and obviously not everyone is an expert in ever situation.

I hope you do chose that 22 year old lawyer over the 50 year old lawyer when the court case comes, obviously he will have far more expertise and smarts when in court.

Grayson · 30-12-2018 02:12PM

To be fair, youngsters now a days have a different set of skills. I'm from a generation that's in between. The internet only came about in my 20's.

My mum taught me how to change a tyre, change a fuze, bake, sew etc.

I've taught her how to send emails and I've had to set up multiple satellite boxes for her.

30-12-2018 02:15PM

NSAman wrote: »

Jesus you really are angry.

Try to relax a little.

You obviously have great self-belief, that goes without saying and obviously not everyone is an expert in ever situation.

I hope you do chose that 22 year old lawyer over the 50 year old lawyer when the court case comes, obviously he will have far more expertise and smarts when in court.

I'm as calm as can be.

And it's not about my self belief. It's about belief in everyone being capable of much more, at least in their ability to develop more comprehensive and well rounded skills, despite age or previous experience.

If I need a solicitor (you watch too many American programmes I guess) I'd hire based on their ability, not their age. As I would a mechanic, a programmer or a machinery operator. Age is irrelevant to me. I'm not handing out pensions. I'm talking about ability and developing it for oneself.

NSAman · 30-12-2018 02:20PM

JayZeus wrote: »

I'm as calm as can be.

And it's not about my self belief. It's about belief in everyone being capable of much more, at least in their ability to develop more comprehensive and well rounded skills, despite age or previous experience.

If I need a solicitor (you watch too many American programmes I guess) I'd hire based on their ability, not their age. As I would a mechanic, a programmer or a machinery operator. Age is irrelevant to me. I'm not handing out pensions. I'm talking about ability and developing it for oneself.

As we all do, but to dismiss older people As your quote of “i know plenty of “oldies” who have nothing of real value to say” is rather insulting to the “older” generation. Flip it and see where it gets you.

Everyone has something of value to say, you just have to weed out the junk and get the nuggets. As I said earlier, not everyone is an expert in everything.

Everyone has a contribution to this world, some more than others.

30-12-2018 02:30PM

NSAman wrote: »

As we all do, but to dismiss older people As your quote of “i know plenty of “oldies” who have nothing of real value to say” is rather insulting to the “older” generation. Flip it and see where it gets you.

Everyone has something of value to say, you just have to weed out the junk and get the nuggets. As I said earlier, not everyone is an expert in everything.

Everyone has a contribution to this world, some more than others.

I know plenty of 'youngsters' who have nothing of real value to say. Happy?

As you say, everyone has a contribution to this world, some more than others. I absolutely agree.

For some, their sole contribution for the common good will be any net positive contribution in terms of the taxes they pay during life. The may also have absolutely nothing of any worth the teach younger people when they too are 'oldies'.

I'm far too intelligent to accept that elders are deserving of respect just because they're old. Trump is 'old', to take a convenient example. Do you respect him for his ability to impart valuable teachings to young people, aside from observing how poor an example he is as a human being?

Of course not (or we have a whole other issue at hand), so why would I respect anyone else's ability to educate/teach/mentor/train younger folks, just because of their age?

Go ahead and have the last word on this now if you feel it necessary. :rolleyes:

Is anybody mourning the loss of Manly /Womanly arts?

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