How often do the homeless starve?

johndefterios · 17-12-2018 11:58AM #1

I've been wondering this. My girlfriend says she's been seeing a lot more homeless people sleeping outside. I don't judge but I've always wondered something. How can people be homeless for years and still alive? Wouldn't having no job and no food mean they'd "expire" in a few months?

17-12-2018 12:06PM

johndefterios wrote: »

I've been wondering this. My girlfriend says she's been seeing a lot more homeless people sleeping outside. I don't judge but I've always wondered something. How can people be homeless for years and still alive? Wouldn't having no job and no food mean they'd "expire" in a few months?

The kindness of others, be it a soup run courtesy of the Simon Community or random donation from a passer-by on the street. You're not that naive.

Graces7 · 17-12-2018 12:07PM

johndefterios wrote: »

I've been wondering this. My girlfriend says she's been seeing a lot more homeless people sleeping outside. I don't judge but I've always wondered something. How can people be homeless for years and still alive? Wouldn't having no job and no food mean they'd "expire" in a few months?

Merchants Quay and many other fine folk feed and care for them.

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 12:28PM

Most, if not all, the people sleeping on the streets are not there because they have nowhere else to sleep, exactly. It's a common misconception. There are almost always beds available with one service or another, it's that the people are unwilling or more likely unable to meet the conditions of stay. For example no drugs or drink in homeless hostels is the big one, people with severe addictions are unable/unwilling to follow that condition and so will not or cannot take up a hostel bed. Other various anti social behaviour rules are similar. you also have those that are too mentally unwell to follow the conditions, and people who simply choose not to take what's on offer as they prefer the freedom of being on their own.
They can however access food resources, soup kitchens, homeless food drops. People will give food to the homeless instead of coins if they are begging etc. Even bin diving and so on.

yourdeadwright · 17-12-2018 12:31PM

johndefterios wrote: »

I've been wondering this. My girlfriend says she's been seeing a lot more homeless people sleeping outside. I don't judge but I've always wondered something. How can people be homeless for years and still alive? Wouldn't having no job and no food mean they'd "expire" in a few months?

The may not die from hunger but lack of good food certainly can contribute deaths of homeless people ,

Its not rocket science , if you took two men with homes and had one eating healthy food every day and one eating what the homeless eat who do you think will live longer ?

Graces7 · 17-12-2018 12:43PM

FelaniaMump wrote: »

Most, if not all, the people sleeping on the streets are not there because they have nowhere else to sleep, exactly. It's a common misconception. There are almost always beds available with one service or another, it's that the people are unwilling or more likely unable to meet the conditions of stay. For example no drugs or drink in homeless hostels is the big one, people with severe addictions are unable/unwilling to follow that condition and so will not or cannot take up a hostel bed. Other various anti social behaviour rules are similar. you also have those that are too mentally unwell to follow the conditions, and people who simply choose not to take what's on offer as they prefer the freedom of being on their own.
They can however access food resources, soup kitchens, homeless food drops. People will give food to the homeless instead of coins if they are begging etc. Even bin diving and so on.

Many refuse to sleep in the hostels because of drug use therein. They are not always safe places.

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 12:44PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Many refuse to sleep in the hostels because of drug use therein. They are not always safe places.

Also very much true.

17-12-2018 01:11PM

People on the street are entitled to claim social welfare like everyone else. They just don't tend to budget their money wisely.

Berserker · 17-12-2018 01:15PM

I buy meals for a homeless people quite often. Was in town last Saturday week and there was a young girl begging on O' Connell street. Was going for lunch myself so I asked her if she wanted something. Told me she'd wanted a big mac meal and a cup of tea. Not a McD person myself but I popped in and bought it for her. My wife does the same. Young girl with a small baby begs near her workplace. She bought the baby clothes last week. We used to give them money but were told not to do so by some charity workers we met a few months back. I know of plenty of other people who do things like this.

Paddy Cow · 17-12-2018 01:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People on the street are entitled to claim social welfare like everyone else. They just don't tend to budget their money wisely.

Did they change the rules? I know it used to be a huge problem that you couldn't get social welfare unless you had a provable fixed address, which obviously homeless people don't have.

17-12-2018 01:17PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Did they change the rules? I know it used to be a huge problem that you couldn't get social welfare unless you had a provable fixed address, which obviously homeless people don't have.

They can list the likes of Merchants Quay or whatever service they're linking in with as their address.

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 01:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

People on the street are entitled to claim social welfare like everyone else. They just don't tend to budget their money wisely.

It's difficult if not impossible to claim regular social welfare payments if you do not have an address, or a bank account, or the mental capability to understand and follow the rules of claiming.
What social welfare payment do you think a mentally ill alcoholic who sleeps under a bridge can claim exactly? And how would they do it?

Harry Palmr · 17-12-2018 01:18PM

Seriously first post and you've been wondering have you?

Now we will have a to and fro about the "homeless" and this will of course mutate into arguments around dole scroungers, encouraging bad habits by being foolishly kind, the welfare state, homelessness is it real or fake and the whole ****ing nine yards of bull**** baloney.

realdanbreen · 17-12-2018 01:19PM

johndefterios wrote: »

I don't judge but../QUOTE]

Sure you don't.

17-12-2018 01:19PM

FelaniaMump wrote: »

It's difficult if not impossible to claim regular social welfare payments if you do not have an address, or a bank account, or the mental capability to understand and follow the rules of claiming.
What social welfare payment do you think a mentally ill alcoholic who sleeps under a bridge can claim exactly? And how would they do it?

If they are involved with homeless services, often a keyworker will help them to access their payment. Of course it's difficult and complex and some might not claim their payment, but they are within their right to claim social welfare and like I said are often helped through this process by staff in the services they link in with.

Berserker · 17-12-2018 01:20PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Seriously first post and you've been wondering have you?

Now we will have a to and fro about the "homeless" and this will of course mutate into arguments around dole scroungers, encouraging bad habits by being foolishly kind, the welfare state, homelessness is it real or fake and the whole ****ing nine yards of bull**** baloney.

Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

corner of hells · 17-12-2018 01:20PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Many refuse to sleep in the hostels because of drug use therein. They are not always safe places.

It depends on the hostel , there's a couple of different types.
Some accommodations have a higher threshold and are much more strict around behavior.
Lower threshold hostel accept and work with people around thier drug use and alcohol issues.
It's not quite that simple to say they are not always safe.

Bigbagofcans · 17-12-2018 01:21PM

Berserker wrote: »

I buy meals for a homeless people quite often. Was in town last Saturday week and there was a young girl begging on O' Connell street. Was going for lunch myself so I asked her if she wanted something. Told me she'd wanted a big mac meal and a cup of tea. Not a McD person myself but I popped in and bought it for her. My wife does the same. Young girl with a small baby begs near her workplace. She bought the baby clothes last week. We used to give them money but were told not to do so by some charity workers we met a few months back. I know of plenty of other people who do things like this.

You and your wife are lovely people

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 01:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If they are involved with homeless services, often a keyworker will help them to access their payment. Of course it's difficult and complex and some might not claim their payment, but they are within their right to claim social welfare and like I said are often helped through this process by staff in the services they link in with.

That is a naive and simplistic viewpoint. It simply does not work like that. I asked you specifically WHICH payment you think a mentally ill alcoholic street sleeper is entitled to and how they go about getting it. Do you have any idea?

17-12-2018 01:23PM

johndefterios wrote: »

I've been wondering this. My girlfriend says she's been seeing a lot more homeless people sleeping outside. I don't judge but I've always wondered something. How can people be homeless for years and still alive? Wouldn't having no job and no food mean they'd "expire" in a few months?

Here we go again, another rereg thinly veiled troll.

Harry Palmr · 17-12-2018 01:24PM

Berserker wrote: »

Get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

It's a classic dogwhistle thread. First time poster "wondering about stuff", don't be naive this OP is creating a thread for more argument on AH, he isn't interested about the homeless at all.

Paddy Cow · 17-12-2018 01:25PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Seriously first post and you've been wondering have you?

Now we will have a to and fro about the "homeless" and this will of course mutate into arguments around dole scroungers, encouraging bad habits by being foolishly kind, the welfare state, homelessness is it real or fake and the whole ****ing nine yards of bull**** baloney.

You forgot immigrants and asylum seekers. They single handedly caused the housing crisis :P

Paddy Cow · 17-12-2018 01:26PM

FelaniaMump wrote: »

That is a naive and simplistic viewpoint. It simply does not work like that. I asked you specifically WHICH payment you think a mentally ill alcoholic street sleeper is entitled to and how they go about getting it. Do you have any idea?

Disability. Addicts get disability as their addition means they can't work.

Graces7 · 17-12-2018 01:27PM

corner of hells wrote: »

It depends on the hostel , there's a couple of different types.
Some accommodations have a higher threshold and are much more strict around behavior.
Lower threshold hostel accept and work with people around thier drug use and alcohol issues.
It's not quite that simple to say they are not always safe.

I think you misread me! Not always safe ie not safe always . ie some are safe others are not and beds go faster in the safe ones.

If it were me? Would rather sleep in a doorway

17-12-2018 01:28PM

FelaniaMump wrote: »

That is a naive and simplistic viewpoint. It simply does not work like that. I asked you specifically WHICH payment you think a mentally ill alcoholic street sleeper is entitled to and how they go about getting it. Do you have any idea?

Naive and simplistic? The OP asked why homeless people don't starve, and I'm explaining why they don't.

And if they were a mentally ill alcoholic, they would draw disability payment.

Kilometres na gcopaleen · 17-12-2018 01:29PM

The Department of Employment Affairs & Social Protection has dedicated Homeless Persons Units.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/losing_your_home/agencies_for_homeless_people.html#l7cb6c

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 01:31PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Disability. Addicts get disability as their addition means they can't work.

How does a homeless person go about getting disability, do you think? How do they get the letters telling them where their assessment appointment is, and how do they get there on the right time and day? And how do they manage the appeal when they get turned down for it, even if they managed to get the letter telling them they are turned down for it? How do they collect their payments on a regular basis?

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 01:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Naive and simplistic? The OP asked why homeless people don't starve, and I'm explaining why they don't.

And if they were a mentally ill alcoholic, they would draw disability payment.

HOW? you actually have no idea, so why are you speaking about it?

Paddy Cow · 17-12-2018 01:35PM

FelaniaMump wrote: »

How does a homeless person go about getting disability, do you think? How do they get the letters telling them where their assessment appointment is, and how do they get there on the right time and day? And how do they manage the appeal when they get turned down for it, even if they managed to get the letter telling them they are turned down for it? How do they collect their payments on a regular basis?

That's what I was asking up thread. Collecting the payment wouldn't be a problem as they could get it at the Post Office. Someone said they can designate a hostel as their address so they could collect post there.

Paddy Cow · 17-12-2018 01:37PM

Housing and other supports for homeless people.

Your entitlement to social welfare payments is not affected by the fact of being homeless but you may have difficulty getting your payments, mainly because of not having a permanent address. You may make any claims for payments such as Jobseeker’s Allowance or illness and disability payments in the normal way.

For Rent Supplement and other payments under the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme (see below) you apply in the normal way unless you are in Dublin or Cork. If you are in Dublin or Cork, you apply at the relevant Homeless Persons Unit.

FelaniaMump · 17-12-2018 01:40PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

That's what I was asking up thread. Collecting the payment wouldn't be a problem as they could get it at the Post Office. Someone said they can designate a hostel as their address so they could collect post there.

They can't designate a hostel as their address unless it is their address, its usually not allowed. Even if they did that, half the time they would never remember which hostel or to come back regularly to check for letters.
You can designate a post office, sure, but you have to show proof of ID and have your card for collection. Do you think mentally ill alcoholic homeless people are particularly good at keeping track of their documentation?

Like I said, naive and simplistic.

How often do the homeless starve?

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