Brexit Discussion Thread VI

yrreg0850 · 13-12-2018 8:37pm

Tell me how wrote: »

We have been very closely aligned with the UK in our history, we know about the bad stuff but there has been plenty good stuff also and I hope we don't (which we are not doing so far) adopt a gloating position if they do experience difficulties in the case of a hard border.

Both Our Govt and the UK say that they don't want a hard border.
We have Government ministers claiming they cannot do anything because of Europe .

Are we not a soverign country? or, have we given that right away.
The Italians and Greeks seem to be able to do what suits them, why can we not do likewise instead of taking dictation from Briussles/Berlin

Tell me how · 13-12-2018 8:57pm

yrreg0850 wrote: »

Both Our Govt and the UK say that they don't want a hard border.
We have Government ministers claiming they cannot do anything because of Europe .

Are we not a soverign country? or, have we given that right away.
The Italians and Greeks seem to be able to do what suits them, why can we not do likewise instead of taking dictation from Briussles/Berlin

Being a sovereign country does not mean being belligerent just so you can say "No one can tell me what to do".

We are members of the EU, they are supporting our position in relation to the border. Why on earth would we try to start a fight on our own. I am very thankful we don't have many politicians who would think that that is a good thing.

Nody · 13-12-2018 9:04pm

yrreg0850 wrote: »

Both Our Govt and the UK say that they don't want a hard border.
We have Government ministers claiming they cannot do anything because of Europe .

Are we not a soverign country? or, have we given that right away.
The Italians and Greeks seem to be able to do what suits them, why can we not do likewise instead of taking dictation from Briussles/Berlin

Your first mistake was to think the UK government a) has a clue what they are talking about b) are telling you the truth and c) has any plan to actually make it so.

The whole "Take control of our borders" goes directly against the idea of an open border and that's before we start touching on all the bad things connected with such a concept from VAT smuggling (you can make a couple of mil per truck of cigarettes for example) to uncertified products (horse meat scandal any one?) etc. In short an open border can ONLY work in a concept such as EU were all countries follow one set of regulation; which once again goes exactly against what Brexit is suppose to be about ("take back control of our laws"). Hence in short UK government may speak of an open border but they are lying or if you want to be generous clueless of reality.

Sam Russell · 13-12-2018 9:11pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

In a similar vein, I always found it strange that NI, Scotland and wales have devolved parliments, but not England.

They are looking for that, an English parliament. It just has been on the back burner since Brexit.

Actually, the Westminster HOC looks upon itself as the English Parliament and is trying to restrict the members from non-English constituencies from speaking on matters that only pertain to England. [They may have succeeded in this, I am not sure].

They have nine regions in England, and they should all be given the same level of devolved administration as Scotland and Wales. All being brought to the same level of devolved powers.

The English MPs look upon themselves as superior, but we already knew that.

FrancieBrady · 13-12-2018 9:14pm

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Wow, really good article.

Pretty much my reading of the whole cause of Brexit anyway.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/

Excellent

The comments below it only prove the man's point.

Very well written summation.
Particularly on point here:

Nothing tells the story better than the sad stop-start diplomacy of Theresa May. The prime minister is an appropriate leader for a shrinking Britain — one without a clear or consistent vision, whose efforts at both navigating Brexit and her own political survival seem driven by awkward improvisation.

Strazdas · 13-12-2018 9:15pm

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Wow, really good article.

Pretty much my reading of the whole cause of Brexit anyway.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-small-boring-and-stupid-theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-deal/

Excellent

The comments below it only prove the man's point.

It's quite surreal that hard Brexiteers and Europhobes have taken over the comments section of the politico.eu website.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-12-2018 9:24pm

Akrasia wrote: »

They want to keep access to the goldmine that is the Scottish fishing industry

It is not just fish that they want to keep from the waters off Scotland

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-12-2018 9:26pm

joe40 wrote: »

In a similar vein, I always found it strange that NI, Scotland and wales have devolved parliments, but not England.

Essentially, Westminster is the English parliament

strandroad · 13-12-2018 9:45pm

Folkstonian wrote: »

In my own experience, there aren’t many people who see Brexit as an opportunity for Britain to reassert itself as a global power on the level of China or the United States.

Anyone who says that UK can negotiate with the EU like equals, or counts on automatic great deals with US or China is in fact expressing this belief. UK has a fraction of their power after all.

Tell me how · 13-12-2018 9:53pm

Nody wrote: »

Your first mistake was to think the UK government a) has a clue what they are talking about b) are telling you the truth and c) has any plan to actually make it so.

https://twitter.com/Caroline_Stocks/status/1073130160885587968

judeboy101 · 13-12-2018 10:41pm

TM proposes start date for new relationship to get around backstop.

Inquitus · 13-12-2018 10:51pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

TM proposes start date for new relationship to get around backstop.

A date that can only be met with agreement on the new relationship else there is a backstop........

judeboy101 · 13-12-2018 10:57pm

Inquitus wrote: »

A date that can only be met with agreement on the new relationship else there is a backstop........

That's what they have at the moment with transition period, surely. This sounds like " if the EU is so serious about negotiating a deal then we dare you to dare the backstop to sort one out in x time, you agree, we get deal, you try to string it out, we leave"

FrancieBrady · 13-12-2018 11:51pm

Good Brexity line up on Question Time. Dimbelby's last show. Who is replacing him? Be good to see a rolling chair like Have I Got News For You

Mr.Nice Guy · 13-12-2018 11:54pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good Brexity line up on Question Time. Dimbelby's last show. Who is replacing him? Be good to see a rolling chair like Have I Got News For You

Fiona Bruce will be taking over.

I expect David Davis to bluff his way through tonight's programme to rapturous applause.

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-12-2018 11:59pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good Brexity line up on Question Time. Dimbelby's last show. Who is replacing him? Be good to see a rolling chair like Have I Got News For You

Have given up on QT over the last 3-4 years. Might watch it with Fiona Bruce on

1005713h-fiona-bruce-trainers-trans-Nv-BQz-QNjv4-Bq-P794i8zub1-Kbj-Vu-J.jpg

Water John · 14-12-2018 12:12am

TM gets nothing from the EU.

judeboy101 · 14-12-2018 12:19am

Water John wrote: »

TM gets nothing from the EU.

She got some more frequent flier miles and a bit of lunch, so that's something.

devnull · 14-12-2018 12:21am

https://twitter.com/breeallegretti/status/1073355642541355008?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1073355642541355008&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Ftheresa-may-heads-to-brussels-for-brexit-talks-after-surviving-confidence-vote-11579370
Pretty much saying what we all know and seems a dig at Duncan-Smith's comments this morning.

Mr.Nice Guy · 14-12-2018 12:26am

Very interesting thread here from Peter Foster:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1073355214340743168

This bit in relation to Ireland:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1073357332485148673

Frustration with her position:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1073358059131551750

Expect plenty of Brexiteer fury tomorrow by the looks of this.

Headshot · 14-12-2018 1:00am

I burst my hole at that idiot in the audience with the glasses in question time

what an idiot

Headshot · 14-12-2018 1:18am

Question Time has been a good watch.

****ing love if someone would ask why does May pander to the ERG where it's only makes up 10% of the Conservatives. They caused this mess and reaping the rewards from it

Tell me how · 14-12-2018 1:25am

Interesting how David Dimbleby didn't push Davis to answer Jo Brands question as to why he said Brexit would be so easy.

I'd love someone to ask why aren't they listening to the EU and what they are saying repeatedly.

Suggestion if 2nd referendum gets big cheer. (Show tonight is being held in London of course)

FrancieBrady · 14-12-2018 1:28am

Tell me how wrote: »

Interesting how David Dimbleby didn't push Davis to answer Jo Brands question as to why he said Brexit would be so easy.

I thought the exact same thing. That is why QT is just soundbyte entertainment and not really a serious political discussion. Nobody ever gets questioned properly.

For Forks Sake · 14-12-2018 1:38am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good Brexity line up on Question Time. Dimbelby's last show. Who is replacing him? Be good to see a rolling chair like Have I Got News For You

Politically astute, previous television experience?
Time for the return of the right honourable tub of lard.

latest?cb=20140807213501

tuxy · 14-12-2018 1:39am

Headshot wrote: »

Question Time has been a good watch.

****ing love if someone would ask why does May pander to the ERG where it's only makes up 10% of the Conservatives. They caused this mess and reaping the rewards from it

In what way is she pandering more to the ERG than the rest of her party that voted no confidence in her?
If only 10% are ERG and it was 36% who voted no confidence.
That's a massive number considering she has also lost the support of the DUP.

Tell me how · 14-12-2018 1:41am

Dimbleby actually going out strong tonight.

Enzokk · 14-12-2018 1:43am

joe40 wrote: »

In a similar vein, I always found it strange that NI, Scotland and wales have devolved parliments, but not England.

Imagine having even more politicians that needs to have their expenses covered by the taxpayer.

As others have posted it seem like it didn't go well for May.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1073364321370038273

Imreoir2 · 14-12-2018 1:56am

Enzokk wrote: »

Imagine having even more politicians that needs to have their expenses covered by the taxpayer.

As others have posted it seem like it didn't go well for May.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1073364321370038273

The cynic in me thinks the supposed slapdown by the EU was the desired outcome. The media keeps talking about the EU giving May support and a "lifeline". If anything May is strongest when perceived as being attacked by the EU. The chance to play the wronged party in the aftermath of Slazberg was probably her best moment in the last six months. The reality is that the deal won't be changing. Within the confines of that reality, EU support is not going to get her anywhere domestically. Being allowed to look like she is standing up to/being attacked by the EU on insubstantial things like the tone of meetings and the wording of statements will probably do more to shore up her image at home than any warm words of reasurances the EU could provide.

Enzokk · 14-12-2018 2:07am

Imreoir2 wrote: »

The cynic in me thinks the supposed slapdown by the EU was the desired outcome. The media keeps talking about the EU giving May support and a "lifeline". If anything May is strongest when perceived as being attacked by the EU. The chance to play the wronged party in the aftermath of Slazberg was probably her best moment in the last six months. The reality is that the deal won't be changing. Within the confines of that reality, EU support is not going to get her anywhere domestically. Being allowed to look like she is standing up to/being attacked by the EU on insubstantial things like the tone of meetings and the wording of statements will probably do more to shore up her image at home than any warm words of reasurances the EU could provide.

This tactic would only work if she actually gets concessions and I cannot remember her getting anything from Salzburg, hence parliament hoping to vote against her deal.

A penny for the thoughts of those MPs that were hesitating on voting for or against her but decided to give her a chance. Another meeting with other EU leaders and another humiliation for her and the UK.

Brexit Discussion Thread VI

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