Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Akrasia · 12-12-2018 07:02PM

Awesomeness wrote: »

Theresa May has lied consistently and told everyone what they want to hear.

Shes just told MPs there is a legally binding solution to the backstop coming. She's Lying. Again.

She can say she wont contest the next election but is not giving any dates on when she will step down. Shes probably lying there too. But she will say and do anything to survive this evening.

Good old democracy, where a vote based on lies is just as binding as a vote based on the truth, and in the country that insists on calling it's parlimentarians 'right honourable' every 15 seconds, it's much more acceptable to lie blatantly to parliament, than to accuse anyone of being dishonest.

ARNOLD J RIMMER · 12-12-2018 07:06PM

Brexit has fallen through its arse.

May will easily survive the confidence vote as nobody who the Tories saw as potential replacement put themselves forward before the vote.

They didn’t but themselves forward as they know they can’t get a better deal from the EU.

They also don’t want to be leader on Brexit Day.

Labour won’t call a no confidence vote in the Government for a General Election as they also don’t want to be the party in Government on Brexit Day.

Corbyn will wait until he is sure the General Election vote can’t happen until after Brexit

Labour will then run an Election campaign on cleaning up the Torie mess with no responsibilities UK finds themselves in after Brexit

Leroy42 · 12-12-2018 07:08PM

This is the part where I have no sympathy for TM, which many people in the media and other areas seem to have.

She has either outright lied or hidden the truth throughout the whole process.

She has lied to the DUP, the ERG, Davis said he lied to her, Raab claims she lied to him. Yet we are supposed to believe that throughout all this this is working on the best interests of the country?

She has consistently mislead the EU, missing numerous deadlines and saying one thing to them before saying different at home.

She has never once, until she had the deal, made the fact that the UK would need to make compromises to get a deal. Now she is saying that a backstop is totally necessary, only a few weeks ago she was proclaiming that no PM would ever agree to it!

The UK needed politicians that would tell the truth, hard as it was to hear. We are leaving and these are the costs. But still they are making it out as if there is no costs.

McGiver · 12-12-2018 07:21PM

Lot of BS and empty phrases from May at her speech:

1. That she will deliver Brexit which hounours the result of the referendum while protecting the economy, jobs and the "precious" Union.
2. That the Conservative Party are moderate, pragmatic, modern party working for everyone.
3. That they are working on resolving housing issues, poverty, improving public services.

Anyone can actually believe that nonsense?
1. Undeliverable, such Brexit doesn't exist. She either knows it and lies or is deluded.
2. Last 3 years have shown that Tories are not pragmatic whatsoever - John Major must be furious (and I think he is). And any talks about modern, oh my, don't get me started. With the lot like JRM?
3. This is frankly insulting. They haven't done any actual goevernance last 3 years, just wasted time and money on undeliverable Brexit. And the UN poverty report is clear on poverty, it's a shame that a European G8 country has this level of poverty.

serfboard · 12-12-2018 07:22PM

devnull wrote: »

Lots of talk on Twitter about cabinet members set to vote against despite saying otherwise publicly. Since its a secret ballot they want to seem loyal in case she wins it.

There was a great discussion on Sean O'Rourke this morning involving Matthew Parris where they talked about this.

The jist of it was that they can publicly back her all they like - what they do in private is another matter, and no better party than the Tories for doing it.

And cabinet members who don't publicly back her will get the boot if/when she wins.

Hurrache · 12-12-2018 07:25PM

devnull wrote: »

Lots of talk on Twitter about cabinet members set to vote against despite saying otherwise publicly. Since its a secret ballot they want to seem loyal in case she wins it.

Gove earlier on Sky News wouldn't directly answer if he'd support her, the only thing he'd say was that he'd support here if she won the confidence motion.

tuxy · 12-12-2018 07:37PM

No choice but support her when she survives. 12 months until the tory party can call this vote again and I doubt he would support a parliament vote called by Labour and the SNP.

Enzokk · 12-12-2018 07:37PM

This seems important in light of the fact that she said she had a legally binding backstop solution,

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072908243154931712

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072909377601003521

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072911521024495618

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072914336602038272

Hurrache · 12-12-2018 07:40PM

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

tuxy · 12-12-2018 07:42PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

Yes he said a few times he wants Johnson, Rabb or Davis as PM.
He's hardly going to risk his own political career.

Leroy42 · 12-12-2018 07:44PM

So if, as expected, she wins tonight what then?

Surely the likes of JRM, Johnson etc must accept the plan she has delivered? What possible reason could they have for not supporting it whilst staying in the Tory party?

And doesn't this, her winning, simply mean the EU can simply (not that it was ever likely to be different) stick to the current WA as she has effectively been given the go ahead on it.

Tell me how · 12-12-2018 07:44PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is the part where I have no sympathy for TM, which many people in the media and other areas seem to have.

She has either outright lied or hidden the truth throughout the whole process.

She has lied to the DUP, the ERG, Davis said he lied to her, Raab claims she lied to him. Yet we are supposed to believe that throughout all this this is working on the best interests of the country?

She has consistently mislead the EU, missing numerous deadlines and saying one thing to them before saying different at home.

She has never once, until she had the deal, made the fact that the UK would need to make compromises to get a deal. Now she is saying that a backstop is totally necessary, only a few weeks ago she was proclaiming that no PM would ever agree to it!

The UK needed politicians that would tell the truth, hard as it was to hear. We are leaving and these are the costs. But still they are making it out as if there is no costs.

I wouldn't trust the radio of any of those 3 entities when it comes to them saying that May lied to them.

Leroy42 · 12-12-2018 07:45PM

tuxy wrote: »

Yes he said a few times he wants Johnson, Rabb or Davis as PM.
He's hardly going to risk his own political career.

In any other time or sphere, his career, as anything other than a nobody backbencher, would effectively be over should TM win tonight.

judeboy101 · 12-12-2018 07:46PM

Hurrache wrote: »

Reuters saying that if it does come to a contest that Mogg said he won't run. What's the English equivalent to hurler on the ditch?

He knows the law, no Catholics can be head of state or pm as they can't perform all the duties entailed.

Hurrache · 12-12-2018 07:46PM

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems important in light of the fact that she said she had a legally binding backstop solution,

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072908243154931712

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072909377601003521

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072911521024495618

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072914336602038272

And despite all this there's still Tory's on Sky News saying if they had a change in PM they could push EU to the deadline and the EU then will have to give them a new agreement.

Professor Moriarty · 12-12-2018 07:49PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

He knows the law, no Catholics can be head of state or pm as they can't perform all the duties entailed.

They can be PM but not monarch. Anyway, if Jacob becomes PM it will be time to leave the planet.

Tell me how · 12-12-2018 07:51PM

Hurrache wrote: »

And despite all this there's still Tory's on Sky News saying if they had a change in PM they could push EU to the deadline and the EU then will have to give them a new agreement.

It beggars belief. Two ladies were on a few minutes ago and saying that the EU always play this game of brinksmanship so they still think they might see some movement from them in the near future and that if there is some it will be in the area of the backstop.

devnull · 12-12-2018 07:55PM

Honestly some of this stuff makes me laugh, I've been watching a few regional programs in the UK and some of the tosh that local politicians are coming out with is ridiculous.

Essentially what I'm hearing is the following on Tory called votes:
- TM was right to call another election two years after the last one because people were trying to frustrate Brexit and the public mood had changed and so their need to be a vote.
- Tory MPs were right to call a leadership challenge because the MP mood had changed since the last one over two years ago and therefore there needed to be change.

In relation to mandates I'm hearing the following
- Even if TM wins by 5% or so, this is not enough of a mandate and cannot be taken as a definitive decision by her fellow peers, so therefore she should go anyway.
- There should not be another referendum because the people have decisively voted to leave the United Kingdom and there is no valid reason to do so.

So basically what they're saying is
- That if they're not happy with the parliamentary arithmetic they should be allowed to hold another vote, that they believe they should win. And if they're not happy with the leader they should also have another vote, since they might win that. But there should not be another vote on Brexit, you know, because they might lose that.
- If they win a vote by the odd percent here and there that must absolutely be binding and is a clear mandate, but if they lose a vote by a few percent, then the other person has still lost and they have still won as it's not a clear mandate.

The whole thing is laughable, they're such a complete bunch of hypocrites.

Leroy42 · 12-12-2018 07:56PM

Tell me how wrote: »

It beggars belief. Two ladies were on a few minutes ago and saying that the EU always play this game of brinksmanship so they still think they might see some movement from them in the near future and that if there is some it will be in the area of the backstop.

And as usual I assume the presenter simply let them rattle on and not ask why we have such a negative attitude to the EU when they are, supposedly, easily manipulated?

Water John · 12-12-2018 07:58PM

Nigel Dodds is saying TM isn't telling the truth when she tells Tory MPs that progress was made in talks with the DUP today. She just lies.
She should be gone but I suspect a lot of MPs are afraid who might replace her. Really pathetic reason TBH.

bilston · 12-12-2018 07:59PM

Sky reckons at least 184 Tory MPs backing Theresa May. That's 133 accounted for. At least 48 of those won't be voting for her.

She will get the 159, but realistically what does she really need to carry on? I'd say anything less than 215 and she has to be in serious trouble, that would mean 100 MPs don't support her. Her saving grace is there isn't an obvious replacement.

Tell me how · 12-12-2018 07:59PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

And as usual I assume the presenter simply let them rattle on and not ask why we have such a negative attitude to the EU when they are, supposedly, easily manipulated?

Kay Burley was on earlier and if the guest didn't sound pro-Brexit enough, she interjected to ensure that the will of the people wasn't forgotten.

Dyr · 12-12-2018 08:02PM

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems important in light of the fact that she said she had a legally binding backstop solution,

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072908243154931712

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072909377601003521

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072911521024495618

https://twitter.com/AlbertoNardelli/status/1072914336602038272

Find it hard to believe that anything a buzzfeed journalist tweets is important tbh

Water John · 12-12-2018 08:05PM

If 100+ vote against her, Corbyn can then table his no confidence motion. He can tell these that TM would be gone if they support the motion as she has said she will stand down.

devnull · 12-12-2018 08:05PM

bilston wrote: »

Sky reckons at least 184 Tory MPs backing Theresa May. That's 133 accounted for. At least 48 of those won't be voting for her.

She will get the 159, but realistically what does she really need to carry on? I'd say anything less than 215 and she has to be in serious trouble, that would mean 100 MPs don't support her. Her saving grace is there isn't an obvious replacement.

I can't see it being as high as that - some I'd say are lying about support to look after their own interests.

Tell me how · 12-12-2018 08:08PM

Micheal Martin hitting the nail on the head on 20 seconds in this clip.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1072921549718605827

Fann Linn · 12-12-2018 08:11PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Micheal Martin hitting the nail on the head on 20 seconds in this clip.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1072921549718605827

Martin looking after his own head and nobody else.

bilston · 12-12-2018 08:13PM

devnull wrote: »

I can't see it being as high as that - some I'd say are lying about support to look after their own interests.

Quite possibly.

bilston · 12-12-2018 08:15PM

I wonder what Brexiteers will say if it's tight and for example 52% of MPs support the PM and 48% oppose her...?

Tell me how · 12-12-2018 08:16PM

Fann Linn wrote: »

Martin looking after his own head and nobody else.

I actually think he is at least damaging if not outright sacrificing his own Taoiseach aspirations in supporting the C&S over the period which they have done.

Still, I'm personally glad we have a collective government who recognizes the need for a steady ship at the moment.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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