Home heating automation

deezell · 08-12-2018 12:46AM

lintdrummer wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can advise a suitable system for my house...

We've a gas boiler. Fairly old, analogue clock switch below it which we use to turn it on. There's an analogue thermostat then in the kitchen which seems to only switch off the circulation pump when the set temp is reached.

Water is heated anytime the CH is on. It's a normal immersion with no timer, just the sink/bath switch.

Only just moved into the house but would love greater control and consistency in the heating.

One of my main questions is that this is a one zone house at present if my understanding is correct. If I were to buy a smart thermostat (currently favouring the Drayton Wiser), would I be as well to get one with heating and water to allow for future work to add that functionality?

Also considering replacing the boiler at some stage, maybe even for a combi boiler. I'd like to get smart functionality going asap with smart TRVs in the sitting room/bedroom. Would it be a waste installing smart heating controls now only to replace the type of boiler in a year or so?

Sorry if this is the kind of thing that's been covered but I'm at a bit of a loss as to what I should do...

When you turn the timer on full but then turn the stat right down does the boiler fire intermittently to heat the HW only?

punisher5112 · 08-12-2018 10:31AM

Put in a netatamo or similar.

deezell · 08-12-2018 12:46PM

john_doe. wrote: »

Drayton Wiser is now live in Ireland.
Got a tweet off them.

On this note the Wiser Kit 3 is about €200 on Amazon. Thats 2 wireless stats and a 3 zone hub relay. It may not have all the additional smart features of Tado or Nest, but it's very versatile, no stat wiring needed, good if you have no existing wired stats, and it can control TRVs. For any one with an existing living/ bedroom/Hot Water controller this is a breeze to install.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Thermostat-Kit-Heating/dp/B075GNJ7ZN

lintdrummer · 08-12-2018 09:09PM

deezell wrote: »

When you turn the timer on full but then turn the stat right down does the boiler fire intermittently to heat the HW only?

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I tried this and yes, it fires intermittently with the stat at 0.

deezell · 08-12-2018 09:55PM

lintdrummer wrote: »

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I tried this and yes, it fires intermittently with the stat at 0.

So assuming the HW heats in this configuration you have a system which can be off, HW, or HW+CH. This is a gravity mode 2 zone system, and you have options to wire a Nest, Tado+ext kit, Hive or Drayton Wiser to operate HW on a Timer, and HW+CH on the thermostat. There is a specific way to wire double throw 2 zone relays to achieve this, while the Tado ext kit which only has single throw relays can be configured by Tado support in gravity mode. Gravity 2 zone mode is basically firing the boiler via the HW relay for either a HW timed event or a CH timed event, while only operating the CH pump or valve from the CH relay. This gives a partially independent 2 zone system, in that you can't have just CH without the cylinder heating, which is no big deal.

lintdrummer · 08-12-2018 10:32PM

Thanks deezell, that's great info. Would it be a straight forward enough install for a competent DIYer? Any system you'd recommend in particular?

deezell · 08-12-2018 11:36PM

lintdrummer wrote: »

Thanks deezell, that's great info. Would it be a straight forward enough install for a competent DIYer? Any system you'd recommend in particular?

Tado or Nest. Here's a diagram of how the nest relay box is wired for gravity systems.

,
The Tado ext kit can just be wired HW to boiler and CH to pump, with Tado support configuring it as a gravity HW single zone control. While you can use the Drayton Kit2 hub ( or the Hive relay) wired as the tado, there is no mode programming afaik to turn on the HW relay at each occurrence of a CH event, so you would have to program a blanket set of HW events to overlap desired CH events.
Wiring up is well within DIY competent range.

keane2097 · 11-12-2018 09:58PM

My Tado smart thermostat which has been working perfectly for months has all of a sudden stopped controlling the heating today after the boiler has been serviced.

The app looks to be working as normal, as does the stat on the wall, and if I ask it to turn up the heat I get the three wavy lines like it's trying to fire the boiler, but there's no response from the boiler and no sign of the radiators heating up.

There's a low amount of noise from the boiler, the light is on etc.

Any ideas what could be going on?

limnam · 11-12-2018 10:02PM

keane2097 wrote: »

My Tado smart thermostat which has been working perfectly for months has all of a sudden stopped controlling the heating today after the boiler has been serviced.

The app looks to be working as normal, as does the stat on the wall, and if I ask it to turn up the heat I get the three wavy lines like it's trying to fire the boiler, but there's no response from the boiler and no sign of the radiators heating up.

There's a low amount of noise from the boiler, the light is on etc.

Any ideas what could be going on?

Is everything working outside of tado?

deezell · 11-12-2018 10:03PM

keane2097 wrote: »

My Tado smart thermostat which has been working perfectly for months has all of a sudden stopped controlling the heating today after the boiler has been serviced.

The app looks to be working as normal, as does the stat on the wall, and if I ask it to turn up the heat I get the three wavy lines like it's trying to fire the boiler, but there's no response from the boiler and no sign of the radiators heating up.

There's a low amount of noise from the boiler, the light is on etc.

Any ideas what could be going on?

Maybe your boiler was serviced by Roy Rodgers. Seriously tho, he may have pulled the cable from the stat inside the boiler. Its often on a removeable multiplug. Call him and Tonto back.

limnam · 11-12-2018 10:05PM

deezell wrote: »

Call him and Tonto back.

Brilliant. :pac:

keane2097 · 11-12-2018 10:33PM

Yeah the boiler is on power and it's warm to the touch, but the pilot light doesn't seem to want to fire. I got it to come on briefly by turning the knob up to the max but it started letting out an unmerciful clanking so I panicked and turned it off!

I've turned it back on now and again I can't get the pilot light to turn on. The Tado app is still calling for heat but no gug from the boiler.

I'll give the company a buzz in the morning I suppose, very annoying.

L1011 · 11-12-2018 10:44PM

Got a Nest in yesterday.

The documentation is bloody awful and they really assume you want your heat on all the time. Auto Away works fine for knocking the heat off when we're gone but then the timer doesn't come back on as there's no way to give it a "we actually want this one" instruction

So its now basically working as a programmer with remote access to over-ride which is actually sufficient for me and is more than acceptable for what it cost (130 installed with a Home Mini thrown in) But is not worth the normal price.

Krombopulos Michael · 12-12-2018 09:11AM

L1011 wrote: »

Got a Nest in yesterday.

The documentation is bloody awful and they really assume you want your heat on all the time. Auto Away works fine for knocking the heat off when we're gone but then the timer doesn't come back on as there's no way to give it a "we actually want this one" instruction

So its now basically working as a programmer with remote access to over-ride which is actually sufficient for me and is more than acceptable for what it cost (130 installed with a Home Mini thrown in) But is not worth the normal price.

Working as programmer with remote access is mostly what I want. Is the program functionality easy to use?

kave2 · 12-12-2018 06:05PM

Hi, looking to get smart home heating, have 2 zones + hot water. I was hoping to get something cheaper then the likes of Tado, Nest because I don't need all those smart features. Basically just remote access to my heating.

Found some cheap ones on Amazon but not sure how good they are.

From the big brands Hive seems to be the cheapest, would cost me 245e.

Is there anything cheaper? Thanks a lot.

L1011 · 12-12-2018 06:07PM

Krombopulos Michael wrote: »

Working as programmer with remote access is mostly what I want. Is the program functionality easy to use?

Very. You need to get used to it's slightly different way of working, and be ok with 9c as "off"* but you see the whole week in one view and copy/paste is obvious. Has 15 minute accuracy for control periods. Water is simple on/off with no thermostat; the tank stat talks to the valve on mine so that sorts that out.

*I can't see a way to use the timing to turn it off off but if my house is below 9c when I'm away the fish and the plants might be pissed off anyway! Will need to see how much more run-time it causes on very cold days

super_sweeney · 13-12-2018 07:50AM

kave2 wrote: »

Hi, looking to get smart home heating, have 2 zones + hot water. I was hoping to get something cheaper then the likes of Tado, Nest because I don't need all those smart features. Basically just remote access to my heating.

Found some cheap ones on Amazon but not sure how good they are.

From the big brands Hive seems to be the cheapest, would cost me 245e.

Is there anything cheaper? Thanks a lot.

I have a climote got it free from electric ireland its exactly what your looking for! its cheap and does the trick the only thing that i would warn against though it runs on a data sim :mad: and does not run through wifi and the app could majorly do with an update but the website is good for historical data and its great as a remote timer and did i mention as i was an electric ireland customer i got it FREE!

deezell · 13-12-2018 08:34AM

kave2 wrote: »

Hi, looking to get smart home heating, have 2 zones + hot water. I was hoping to get something cheaper then the likes of Tado, Nest because I don't need all those smart features. Basically just remote access to my heating.

Found some cheap ones on Amazon but not sure how good they are.

From the big brands Hive seems to be the cheapest, would cost me 245e.

Is there anything cheaper? Thanks a lot.

The Drayton Wiser Kit 3 checks out well. About €200+,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Thermostat-Kit-Heating/dp/B075GNJ7ZN
Far Superior programmability and functionality compated to the Climote, simple connection to your wifi, can add TRVs later. If you currently have a 3 zone timer controller like an EPH, the Wiser hub just wires in place. Very simple install. Stats are wireless paired to the hub. Hub connects by Wi-Fi to your internet. Have a look at installation guide here.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bLXcPI72DURhxD6iUf0M5kTZlXydzz97/view?usp=drivesdk

deezell · 13-12-2018 12:54PM

L1011 wrote: »

...........I can't see a way to use the timing to turn it off off but if my house is below 9c when I'm away the fish and the plants might be pissed off anyway! Will need to see how much more run-time it causes on very cold days

Simply turn the temperature for a particular time slot right down, this is the equivalent of Off.

reignschaos · 13-12-2018 11:06PM

I've been keeping on eye on the whole Tado subscription disaster that they made for themselves. I see today that the option to upgrade to the new app is now showing up in the existing app.

The good news is Tado seem to have done at least a semi uturn for existing customers in relation to the Subscription in that for €20 one off payment we get the app upgrade and loose no functionality based on this Tado Blog entry.

This guy I think sums it all up well New Updated Costs, if you look at his earlier video, he makes a good idea on saving money on the subscription costs. Basically pay monthly and unsubscribe from it during the warmer months :-)

deezell · 14-12-2018 08:58AM

reignschaos wrote: »

I've been keeping on eye on the whole Tado subscription disaster that they made for themselves. I see today that the option to upgrade to the new app is now showing up in the existing app.

The good news is Tado seem to have done at least a semi uturn for existing customers in relation to the Subscription in that for €20 one off payment we get the app upgrade and loose no functionality based on this Tado Blog entry.

Some relevant comments on a Tado specific blog starting at this post;
https://www.avforums.com/threads/tado-smart-thermostat.2077764/page-27#post-26709426

OffalyMedic · 14-12-2018 10:35AM

Getting a Nest installed today with E.I. small house only 75m2 do I need trv or with stat being in middle room suffice?

THE ALM · 14-12-2018 11:17AM

OffalyMedic wrote: »

Getting a Nest installed today with E.I. small house only 75m2 do I need trv or with stat being in middle room suffice?

I would get the Nest installed and see how you get on with it, you could look at something like the Energenie TRV's, which are compatible with Nest, down the line if needs be.

THE ALM · 14-12-2018 11:22AM

Anybody run there Hive in the 'Ready by' mode and how do you find it?

kave2 · 14-12-2018 12:38PM

deezell wrote: »

The Drayton Wiser Kit 3 checks out well. About €200+,
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drayton-Wiser-Thermostat-Kit-Heating/dp/B075GNJ7ZN
Far Superior programmability and functionality compated to the Climote, simple connection to your wifi, can add TRVs later. If you currently have a 3 zone timer controller like an EPH, the Wiser hub just wires in place. Very simple install. Stats are wireless paired to the hub. Hub connects by Wi-Fi to your internet. Have a look at installation guide here.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bLXcPI72DURhxD6iUf0M5kTZlXydzz97/view?usp=drivesdk

Looked at Dreyton Wiser, looks like nice piece of kit. Do you have it yourself?

Still haven't decided, it's between Drayton or Hive. One thing that worries me is that they both have battery powered stats. How long the battery last in these?

My current digital stats are wired, so what do I have to do with the wires when I replace them?

deezell · 14-12-2018 02:26PM

kave2 wrote: »

Looked at Dreyton Wiser, looks like nice piece of kit. Do you have it yourself?

Still haven't decided, it's between Drayton or Hive. One thing that worries me is that they both have battery powered stats. How long the battery last in these?

My current digital stats are wired, so what do I have to do with the wires when I replace them?

No, I have Tado single CH zone with some TRVs. Fir an existing 3 zone setup, the drayton is good value and very complete, with simple installation.
In your case you can just remove the old stats and join the two contact wires together. If you have a powered stat and 3 wires, you isolate the neutral, join the others.
Battery life varies, but expect at least a year plus.

The Black Oil · 14-12-2018 02:29PM

Complete n00b here. Is the age of a house a determining factor re compatibility for Nest, etc? House is from the late 70s, CH/HW is gas - about 10 years old. Is rewiring likely needed?

reignschaos · 14-12-2018 04:25PM

The Black Oil wrote: »

Complete n00b here. Is the age of a house a determining factor re compatibility for Nest, etc? House is from the late 70s, CH/HW is gas - about 10 years old. Is rewiring likely needed?

I'm going with the standard IT answer it depends :-)

Perhaps depending on the structure of the house in relation to WIFI, maybe parts of the house are dead spots may be an issue for TRV's but not the main box itself.

Mostly I would say no, all the different options depend on how your plumbing is set up. How many zones is there? What type of boiler. What parts of the plumbing is already set up ie any thermostats on any walls any where in the house.

kave2 · 14-12-2018 04:28PM

deezell wrote: »

No, I have Tado single CH zone with some TRVs. Fir an existing 3 zone setup, the drayton is good value and very complete, with simple installation.
In your case you can just remove the old stats and join the two contact wires together. If you have a powered stat and 3 wires, you isolate the neutral, join the others.
Battery life varies, but expect at least a year plus.

I read that some of these smart thermostats require internet to work locally. Is that the case with Hive and Drayton?

keane2097 · 14-12-2018 05:15PM

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah the boiler is on power and it's warm to the touch, but the pilot light doesn't seem to want to fire. I got it to come on briefly by turning the knob up to the max but it started letting out an unmerciful clanking so I panicked and turned it off!

I've turned it back on now and again I can't get the pilot light to turn on. The Tado app is still calling for heat but no gug from the boiler.

I'll give the company a buzz in the morning I suppose, very annoying.

Poor fella forgot to turn the filter behind the boiler back on after he turned it off to clean it. All good again.

Home heating automation

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