Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

cml387 · 11-12-2018 10:26AM

I see that Andrea Leadsome has had a pop at Speaker John Bercow on Radio 4 this morning, doubting his impartiality on Brexit

Now a bit of history here, John Bercow was always on the sensible wing of the party and hated by the right, and especially Leadsome

He probably doesn't do himself any favours with his attitude to ministers in particular but it's dangerous territory for a governent in this mess to start blaming the ~"referee".

DOCARCH · 11-12-2018 10:30AM

Christy42 wrote: »

The people have voted. No one really knows what was voted for....

A hell of a lot of people voted for the fantasy of putting an extra £350M a week into the NHS (....per BJ and his bus)!

LuckyLloyd · 11-12-2018 10:31AM

cml387 wrote: »

I see that Andrea Leadsome has had a pop at Speaker John Bercow on Radio 4 this morning, doubting his impartiality on Brexit

Now a bit of history here, John Bercow was always on the sensible wing of the party and hated by the right, and especially Leadsome

He probably doesn't do himself any favours with his attitude to ministers in particular but it's dangerous territory for a governent in this mess to start blaming the ~"referee".

Why would this surprise you in the slightest? Once the Conservatives hopped into bed with the DUP as partners with the Irish border a sensitive part of the coming negotiations it demonstrated that this version of the party leadership at least is bereft of the ability to see dangerous political decisions and avoid them.

lawred2 · 11-12-2018 10:37AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Nonsense. The people have already voted and we must push ahead with Brexit. May should be slung out and replaced with someone competent.

What Brexit do you want pushed ahead?

Akrasia · 11-12-2018 10:39AM

DOCARCH wrote: »

A hell of a lot of people voted for the fantasy of putting an extra £350M a week into the NHS (....per BJ and his bus)!

Given what we know about the funding for Leave EU, Aaron Banks, and the illegal and deceitful use of social media during the first referendum, Brexit isn't really the will of the people.

It's the will of the Kremlin

ancapailldorcha · 11-12-2018 10:45AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The BBC has been exposed as an institution severely lacking in journalistic rigour throughout the entire Brexit process. They used to be a standard to aspire to, no more. This week serves to highlight massive dysfunction across British institutions generally.

The dark forces who shovelled illegitimate cash at the 2016 ref certainly got all they paid for and more.

The BBC isn't much more than a voice of the establishment. It doesn't know whether the next establishment will be pro or anti Brexit so it's hedging its bets.

Akrasia · 11-12-2018 10:48AM

There was an Intelligence Squared uk debate over the weekend. Spoiler alert:

Before the debate 46% voted for a 2nd referendum
After the debate 53% voted for a 2nd referendum

Unfortunately, the 'renegotiate/no deal' side went from 19% pre-debate to 27%

This is in the context of a debate with one anti brexit panelist, and two pro brexit panelists. Also in the context where the HOC vote on May's deal was still scheduled for today.

prawnsambo · 11-12-2018 10:53AM

kuro68k wrote: »

Their plan is to crash out. So what if some people are murdered? As far as they are concerned the UK should never have "surrendered" anyway.

I think their plan has become crash out. Pretty much by default, because there is no plan that will deliver a brexit that gets them all the bits they want and gets rid of the bits they don't want. So crash and burn will get rid of the bits they don't want and the great mass of the unwashed can live with the rest.

Akrasia · 11-12-2018 11:00AM

I've also noticed that the UK public do not understand at all why the EU is demanding a backstop.

The talking heads are either saying that it's a waste of time because neither side wants to implement it, or that it's there just to prevent smuggling across an open NI border.

I reality, the reason there is a backstop is because the EU does not trust the UK to not break it's committments to honour the good friday agreement the minute the ink is dry on any agreement with the EU.

The backstop is there because the EU know perfectly well that the UK are not honest brokers in this negotiation, and they are making sure that there are mechanisms in place to force them to respect the GFA and keep a frictionless border in NI.

LeinsterDub · 11-12-2018 11:03AM

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/survey-reveals-65-in-northern-ireland-would-now-vote-remain-and-60-think-united-ireland-more-likely-after-brexit-37609187.html

Very interesting polling data from NI . With a clear green and orange split

Professor Moriarty · 11-12-2018 11:04AM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The BBC isn't much more than a voice of the establishment. It doesn't know whether the next establishment will be pro or anti Brexit so it's hedging its bets.

Plus, as you have noted before, they have dumbed down their website. It's now littered with click bait OMG 'articles' on celebrities and puppies.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 11-12-2018 11:13AM

just when you thought the Brits couldn't look more silly, Treesa is doing the rounds of Euro capitals in a desperate bid to renegotiate the deal. has this woman no self-respect?

Seth Brundle · 11-12-2018 11:15AM

Akrasia wrote: »

This is in the context of a debate with one anti brexit panelist, and two pro brexit panelists.

The C4 debate? Surely three anti and one pro-Brexit panelist?

MarkHenderson · 11-12-2018 11:18AM

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

A Dub in Glasgo · 11-12-2018 11:20AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Examples please

DrumSteve · 11-12-2018 11:22AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Yeah, Sammy Wilson was bricking it this morning calling us bullies so I see your point.

lawred2 · 11-12-2018 11:24AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

Such as?

Seth Brundle · 11-12-2018 11:27AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

So is Teresa May traipsing around the EU to help calm the panic amongst the different national leaders around Europe?

murphaph · 11-12-2018 11:27AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

There won't be a hard Brexit. Parliament has finally woken up. It'll be a variant of May's deal or no Brexit.

MrMusician18 · 11-12-2018 11:29AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

I didn't observe any panic this morning, but I would be concerned if the Irish government were not concerned about the political chaos in London.

Chaos has a habit of spreading and it's not something we need at the moment.

VinLieger · 11-12-2018 11:33AM

MarkHenderson wrote: »

Real sense of panic from the Irish establishment this morning over the coming hard Brexit.

I dont think I saw Leo jumping on a plane to hurriedly go begging on his knees to every EU capital

Akrasia · 11-12-2018 11:33AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I didn't observe any panic this morning, but I would be concerned if the Irish government were not concerned about the political chaos in London.

Chaos has a habit of spreading and it's not something we need at the moment.

The EU Commission have a meeting on Thursday to discuss this. I'd guess that they'll release a statement afterwards saying the Backstop is not negotiable, TM is wasting her time, and there won't be any more negotiations on any new deal before the 30th of March.

They might mention the option to cancel article 50 is still on the table.

Chips Lovell · 11-12-2018 11:42AM

Mod Note

Heed the charter folks. This isn't the place for just posting up gifs, videos, links and tweets. You need to contribute to the debate.

Thanks

FreudianSlippers · 11-12-2018 11:51AM

Nody wrote: »

Sorry FS but I think you give TM to much credit in the character and backbone department there. She'll make another statement like the one after the fiasco in Salzburg about hearing the people, stubborn woman etc. and some faux outrage to show the Brexiteers she means business and do the whole dance & show about the new deal she's promising she'll sort out. The reason for the delay is because of her renegotiation as she now understands "how important it is for people" or some such and it will buy her time until after the new year basically.

You couldn't have been more right. What a monumental waste of time this all is!

robinph · 11-12-2018 11:51AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So is Teresa May traipsing around the EU to help calm the panic amongst the different national leaders around Europe?

No, she's traipsing around Europe so that it looks like shes doing something. But more importantly she's then too busy to have to make an idiot of herself in any interviews where someone may ask her an awkward question such as "WTF are you going to do now?".

Shelga · 11-12-2018 11:56AM

Is she actually going to be allowed to delay and delay for another month?

ancapailldorcha · 11-12-2018 11:58AM

Shelga wrote: »

Is she actually going to be allowed to delay and delay for another month?

The A50 deadline is the end of March so her room to do that is quite limited.

Disappointing but then, we all knew that reconciling two factions which want mutually exclusive things would be a tall order for a political mastermind, never mind the Conservatives.

Imreoir2 · 11-12-2018 11:58AM

robinph wrote: »

No, she's traipsing around Europe so that it looks like shes doing something. But more importantly she's then too busy to have to make an idiot of herself in any interviews where someone may ask her an awkward question such as "WTF are you going to do now?".

Exactly. May's premiership has been a masterclass in process over substance. It has gotten her this far and will probably carry her to a needed crisis point in January where the HoC are left will little choice other than Deal or No-Brexit.

DOCARCH · 11-12-2018 12:00PM

I think UK MPs (including DUP MPs) need a swift crash course on the Good Friday Agreement (an international and binding treaty). It's only then that they might 'get' the (temporary) back stop.

EKRIUQ · 11-12-2018 12:01PM

It has just proven that Teresa's May Plan B was to look for more time.

Her last straw is to convince other EU leaders how damaging it will be for them, if there is a No Deal scenario for the UK and then hope that the EU will lighten there stance coming from these EU leaders.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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