Child benefit ending at 18

marketty · 09-12-2018 12:34PM

Orlando Tasteless Tailgate wrote:

Anyone putting someone through LC now knows the workload and stress...... Impossible to work if they are aiming for decent points... Its a hard stressful exam. Until you've a child sitting it you've no idea.. Its nothing like when i sat mine

I disagree. Not terribly long since I sat mine, and I got good results.

splinter65 · 09-12-2018 12:39PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Everyone's needs are different. As a parent, I didn't want my LC student to work. Plenty of time for that during the summer. Down time from study needs to be proper downtime. The long game is what's important.

Yes and thats your personal choice made by you on behalf of your child. So you must bear the financial brunt of that personal choice, not the taxpayer. Your teenager had 3 months of free time before the leaving cert started and 3 months the summer previous to get a job and have some money in reserve. If you chose to allow them to spend all that time at their total leisure then let that be on you, not everyone else.

n!ghtmancometh · 09-12-2018 12:39PM

marketty wrote: »

Nice dig!

You know nothing about me or what I've done since leaving school as regards education, career advancement or earnings.

Post history doesn't tell everything you know

If you're going to have digs at someone just asking a question and reply in a way that suggests you believe that they are bleeding the taxpayer dry, don't get tetchy when they give it back to you.

cannotlogin · 09-12-2018 12:40PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Because they will fund this generation's pension.

You're not naive enough to think any particular generation has funded their own pension?

A patronising reply that provides little in terms of substance. Perhaps a reduced spenfing on children could subsidise pension costs or alternatively people could fund their own rather than relying on others to cover their costs all the time?

OU812 · 09-12-2018 12:41PM

Curlysue76 wrote: »

I agree, it should finish when child leaves secondary school, whether that be 16 or 19.

This is an interesting point. It would encourage completing the second stage of education & discourage kids dropping out after Junior cert.

There's also an argument for continued (reduced) payment until the end of college.

eviltwin · 09-12-2018 12:42PM

marketty wrote: »

That's grand, but the topic is that the OP can't afford to support the LC student without the child benefit payment. So I suggested the kid get a job. Its great if you can afford for your kid not to, fair play.

Just on the point about the long game, will you take the same approach through college, up to postgrad level? Not saying you shouldn't, but that's a huge financial stretch for most.

During term time I do but I'm happy to do it, my child is studying a very intense course with a lot of competition for jobs, I didn't pay all those fees to have her struggle to find work or emigrate. For me, my children's education is the best way for me to spend my money, it's an investment.

I don't doubt there are people out there who do really well in education while working but my kids need the time. There's no way they would be doing the course their doing if they had worked in LC year.

yabadabado · 09-12-2018 12:42PM

Barnaboy wrote: »

Wasn't my intention to discuss that part, only came here for basic information. Anyway, the reason I think it is unfair is that the adult, as he technically will be, is still in school and cannot provide for himself.

The parents still pay for everything. Isn't the whole point of child benefit to help parents to raise their children?

I think a fairer system would be CB until they leave secondary school or turn 18, whichever happens second.

No intentions of adding any more to the conversation but would be interested in other people's views.

What if the child decides to go to college ?
Maybe they study medicine, should the state keep paying until they are 24/25.

18 years of CB is plenty and that age threshold is perfect cut off.Its a brilliant payment ,state pays 18 years without any means test to help raise your child.

marketty · 09-12-2018 12:46PM

Avatar MIA wrote:

In general, but not in all cases, working while in education is not the best. Especially for children

When parents can afford to financially support the kids through education that's grand. The OP is saying she can't without the child benefit payment. But an 18 year old isn't a child.

I guess my auld pair just had a more holistic approach to parenting. They trusted that I had the maturity and cop on to apply myself to school work and manage my time effectively in that regard. They also believed in teaching me the value of money and taking responsibility for making my own choices in life.
Where other lads in my year had parents paying for everything including cars so they could drive to school and then college, I had to decide things like that for myself with my own money. So I got the bus and spent it on hobbies and travel. Maybe not the wisest, but sure I was only a young lad! Any mistakes I made, I made with my own money. That kind of financial independence has, I believe, made me into a more rounded adult. Some of those guys I went to school may be making more money than me nowadays in their late 20s/early 30s, but they've still got the paw out to mam & dad for the big wedding, house deposit, free childminding etc.

n!ghtmancometh · 09-12-2018 12:49PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Yes and thats your personal choice made by you on behalf of your child. So you must bear the financial brunt of that personal choice, not the taxpayer. Your teenager had 3 months of free time before the leaving cert started and 3 months the summer previous to get a job and have some money in reserve. If you chose to allow them to spend all that time at their total leisure then let that be on you, not everyone else.

Jesus, you've bought the Tory/FG manifesto hook line and sinker.

If a child is still in full time second level education, where it makes sense for them to focus on the huge exam that will greatly shape their income potential and thus ability to fund your pension and hospital services down the road, surely it makes sense to pay CB until that second level education is complete. How anyone could argue against that is beyond me.

The people who do argue against it seem to be those idealistically opposed to any sort of welfare system for struggling people (never seem to mention corporate welfare/tax breaks for landlords etc funnily enough) or the usual ignorant and mean people who've made "hilarious" remarks in this thread about having more children etc.

nim1bdeh38l2cw · 09-12-2018 12:53PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Because they will fund this generation's pension.

You're not naive enough to think any particular generation has funded their own pension?

I can assure you that I'm funding my own.

marketty · 09-12-2018 12:55PM

n!ghtmancometh wrote:

If you're going to have digs at someone just asking a question and reply in a way that suggests you believe that they are bleeding the taxpayer dry, don't get tetchy when they give it back to you.

Where did I have a dig?
I don't believe anything of the sort, I'm just dealing with the reality of the situation. The state, rightly or wrongly, doesn't pay child benefit after the kid turns 18. If the family is struggling to support the 18 year old financially there are some other supports available, college grants etc once they get to third level. For the time being at least, I suggested the kid might want to get a part time job so they could have their own few bob.

The person I was replying to about the dig at me wasn't the OP btw.

Avatar MIA · 09-12-2018 12:55PM

marketty wrote: »

When parents can afford to financially support the kids through education that's grand. The OP is saying she can't without the child benefit payment. But an 18 year old isn't a child.

I guess my auld pair just had a more holistic approach to parenting. They trusted that I had the maturity and cop on to apply myself to school work and manage my time effectively in that regard. They also believed in teaching me the value of money and taking responsibility for making my own choices in life.
Where other lads in my year had parents paying for everything including cars so they could drive to school and then college, I had to decide things like that for myself with my own money. So I got the bus and spent it on hobbies and travel. Maybe not the wisest, but sure I was only a young lad! Any mistakes I made, I made with my own money. That kind of financial independence has, I believe, made me into a more rounded adult. Some of those guys I went to school may be making more money than me nowadays in their late 20s/early 30s, but they've still got the paw out to mam & dad for the big wedding, house deposit, free childminding etc.

It boils down to whether society should increase investment in its young people to better society. We already spend a lot to get children to 18. Was the practice up to relativity recently when CB was paid up to 21 better? In the OP's case it looks like it would be a good investment.

In general it's better if our students are funded to be the best students/graduates they can be.

An alternative may be to continue to increase immigration where skills are imported.

Avatar MIA · 09-12-2018 12:58PM

Marilyn Dirty Trader wrote: »

I can assure you that I'm funding my own.

Well done you. Do you expect you're the only one to be living in Ireland at your retirement?

Lots of anecdotal input to this conversation, which is pretty much worthless to the general discussion.

marketty · 09-12-2018 12:58PM

Avatar MIA wrote:

It boils down to whether society should increase investment in its young people to better society. We already spend a lot to get children to 18. Was the practice up to relativity recently when CB was paid up to 21 better? In the OP's case it looks like it would be a good investment.

Avatar MIA wrote:

In general it's better if our students are funded to be the best students/graduates they can be.

Well now we're in agreement! But is paying child benefit to the parents of an adult the best way to do that? I'd rather see it put into a fairer SUSI grant system myself

Avatar MIA · 09-12-2018 01:03PM

marketty wrote: »

I'd rather see it put into a fairer SUSI grant system myself

At least that's already means tested, which is not a bad thing if it can be done economically.

marketty · 09-12-2018 01:21PM

If you'll indulge me with another anecdote:

My wife's brother was a painfully shy but clever 18 year old. He got great LC results and went on to study business. He had to get a part time job to help pay the bills for college. It was a customer facing sales role, and the difference in him after a year at that job was unreal. He's now a confident and chatty young man that any employer would be happy to have front of house, and has landed a place on a great graduate programme with a multinational company.

There's more to growing up and education than just focusing on exams. Just something to think about for the OP.

splinter65 · 09-12-2018 03:57PM

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

Jesus, you've bought the Tory/FG manifesto hook line and sinker.

If a child is still in full time second level education, where it makes sense for them to focus on the huge exam that will greatly shape their income potential and thus ability to fund your pension and hospital services down the road, surely it makes sense to pay CB until that second level education is complete. How anyone could argue against that is beyond me.

The people who do argue against it seem to be those idealistically opposed to any sort of welfare system for struggling people (never seem to mention corporate welfare/tax breaks for landlords etc funnily enough) or the usual ignorant and mean people who've made "hilarious" remarks in this thread about having more children etc.

If thinking that 6ft 14 stone 16 year old teenagers don’t need to lie around the house doing nothing for 3 months of the summer is part of the Tory manifesto then paint my nails blue and call me Mrs Thatcher.
If thinking that wealthy families on €100,000 + don’t need €145 per month to keep 19 year old Tarquin happy while he’s repeating his Leaving means I’m FG then where do I sign up please?

TCM · 09-12-2018 04:06PM

OU812 wrote:

There's also an argument for continued (reduced) payment until the end of college.

...and might I ask what is that argument?

nervous_twitch · 09-12-2018 04:59PM

Is this thread actually taking the piss? Teach your child some personal responsibility. You're not investing in anything until he knows the value of how to look after himself. Doctor, artist or homeless, he should go to work.

Avatar MIA · 09-12-2018 06:18PM

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Is this thread actually taking the piss? Teach your child some personal responsibility. You're not investing in anything until he knows the value of how to look after himself. Doctor, artist or homeless, he should go to work.

That's grand let the kids of wealthy families get further ahead. No skin off my nose.

Squatter · 09-12-2018 06:50PM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

That's grand let the kids of wealthy families get further ahead. No skin off my nose.

Except for the minor point that 18 year olds aren't kids, they're adults.

They can marry,vote, ride, drive cars, buy booze, have abortions without parental consent and even instruct their school principal not to tell their parents how they're getting on at school, should they wish to.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ask-brian-when-i-turn-18-am-i-entitled-to-receive-my-grades-from-school-1.3398692

Child benefit ending at 18

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