Is building up the solution to the housing crisis?

Feckitll · 08-12-2018 04:51PM #1

As above.

State-of-the-art fireproof ultra-modern high-rise buildings 80-200m tall in areas such as Ballymun, Tallaght etc. Some areas e.g fields in northeast Kildare and north Wicklow could also be developed for this.

Affordable, and AGS could put resources into stopping crime spreading.

It could help lower the number of homeless people as well.

Atlantic Dawn · 08-12-2018 04:55PM

It's a solution but without proper public transport serving these new builds the area will just become a massive bottlekneck of traffic, perhaps have them built with zero parking available would be a plus

I only see them as a solution in built up areas, no point building them in rural locations.

_Kaiser_ · 08-12-2018 05:03PM

Feckitll wrote: »

As above.

State-of-the-art fireproof ultra-modern high-rise buildings 80-200m tall in areas such as Ballymun, Tallaght etc. Some areas e.g fields in northeast Kildare and north Wicklow could also be developed for this.

Affordable, and AGS could put resources into stopping crime spreading.

It could help lower the number of homeless people as well.

We had towers in Ballymun before and they were magnets for anti-social behaviour.

Besides, that's not where these are needed as it's not where the employees of the likes of Facebook, Google etc want to be. These need to be built in the city centre, close to amenities and transport (which, while not great, at least do mostly exist).

This would in turn free up housing in the suburbs for families looking to settle down with kids rather than forcing them into Kildare, Meath and beyond.

The notion that our city centre skyline is some fantastic vista that must be "protected" from modern high-rise is something that needs to stop.

hynesie08 · 08-12-2018 05:04PM

The fact that the docklands area doesn't have 5-6 high rise apartment buildings (15 stories plus) is a ****ing disgrace. The argument that it would ruin the skyline holds no water since the council put their genital wart of a building right on the Liffey.

biko · 08-12-2018 05:08PM

10 years since the last housing crisis/bubble/burst

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-12-2018 05:10PM

Feckitll wrote: »

Heavy community policing also.

Armed, I suppose. Any preference for the handguns?

ArchXStanton · 08-12-2018 05:12PM

High Rise doesn't tend to do too well here or in the UK..

jamo2oo9 · 08-12-2018 05:13PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

We had towers in Ballymun before and they were magnets for anti-social behaviour.

Besides, that's not where these are needed as it's not where the employees of the likes of Facebook, Google etc want to be. These need to be built in the city centre, close to amenities and transport (which, while not great, at least do mostly exist).

This would in turn free up housing in the suburbs for families looking to settle down with kids rather than forcing them into Kildare, Meath and beyond.

The notion that our city centre skyline is some fantastic vista that must be "protected" from modern high-rise is something that needs to stop.

Ballymun was a special case. Those apartments in the Ballymun towers was mainly for the homeless and those on social housing lists.

John Sacrimoni · 08-12-2018 05:14PM

Tower blocks can work, the Ballymun experimet went wrong not because they were tower blocks but because of incompetent policing and lack of ameneties.

Most countries in Europe have tower blocks it makes no sense for us to ignore them, especially in the current crisis.

John Sacrimoni · 08-12-2018 05:17PM

John Sacrimoni wrote: »

Tower blocks can work, the Ballymun experimet went wrong not because they were tower blocks but because of incompetent policing and lack of ameneties.

Most countries in Europe have tower blocks it makes no sense for us to ignore them, especially in the current crisis.

Edit: Dublin Corporation deserve some blame also regarding Ballymun.

DS86DS · 08-12-2018 05:37PM

The problem with housing in Ireland is that we refuse to produce a cohesive and long term strategy to solve the nation's housing problem. That combined the with ridiculous planning system, which places all kinds of burdens on new builds. We have a system which is not only drowned in red tape....but that delays often straight forward building strategies for years on end.

We also have to get over the notion that an acre of grazing pasture suddenly becomes 1000% more in worth because it has been earmarked for development. Given our banking system, and crazy planning laws...........it is no wonder that people are commuting all the way from Wexford with long journeys, and even then having to have two household incomes to pay the mortgage.

The whole system has become ridiculous. My grandfather, on a baker's salary could afford a 3 bedroom house within minutes of the City Centre. Today, to get such a modest house on a single salary, you'd need to be a bloody CEO.

nim1bdeh38l2cw · 08-12-2018 05:39PM

Finnegan Swift Map wrote: »

Armed, I suppose. Any preference for the handguns?

Whatever Tom had the other day in Longford seemed to do the trick

troyzer · 08-12-2018 05:41PM

We need to start building high rise buildings in places like Inchicore and East Wall, not the countryside

kneemos · 08-12-2018 06:07PM

biko wrote: »

10 years since the last housing crisis/bubble/burst

The advice then was to keep building,but of course development became a dirty word.

Graniteville · 08-12-2018 06:12PM

A lot of the higher buildings will be on brownfield sites especially old industrial areas such as Dublin ind eat Glasnevin, areas beside the naas road erc

ToddyDoody · 08-12-2018 08:11PM

"No dig UP stupid"

mammajamma · 08-12-2018 08:24PM

Instead of trying to accommodate neverending amounts of people, how about we try to live within our means instead?

There was another report just days ago that we as a country are operating over-capacity.

Building more is akin to throwing buckets of water out of a ship, while completely ignoring the cause (more and more water coming in through the hole below deck) Its not going to work because it doesn't address the fundamental problem of sustainability.

Doesn't matter if we build up, down, under water, on clouds. As long as they are being constantly filled, wheres the end-point?

troyzer · 08-12-2018 08:25PM

mammajamma wrote: »

Instead of trying to accommodate neverending amounts of people, how about we try to live within our means instead?

There was another report just days ago that we as a country are operating over-capacity.

Building more is akin to throwing buckets of water out of a ship, while completely ignoring the cause (more and more water coming in through the hole below deck) Its not going to work because it doesn't address the fundamental problem of sustainability.

Doesn't matter if we build up, down, under water, on clouds. As long as they are being constantly filled, wheres the end-point?

Yeah, see the problem with that is younger people like me have nowhere to live?

Spanish Eyes · 08-12-2018 08:30PM

First thing to do is look at high rise apartment living in Continental Europe. Take some lessons.

Is there a basement storage area for the buggies, a couple of bikes, the Christmas tree, the suitcases etc?

Is there a place to dry your washing anywhere and if not is there a washer dryer?

Is there a place for your kids to play out safely?

Is there a shop/doctor/school/public transport etc. nearby?

Basic stuff for this kind of initiative.

_Kaiser_ · 08-12-2018 08:31PM

troyzer wrote: »

We need to start building high rise buildings in places like Inchicore and East Wall, not the countryside

I'd suggest leveling much of the area around the IFSC and Connolly building several new high rise towers in their place instead.

Those current residents can be offered alternative accommodation outside the core city centre area if on housing lists.

It seems crazy to me that working people have to spend hours in traffic or on public transport each day so that others who aren't working can live next door to the jobs they aren't doing.

imitation · 08-12-2018 08:32PM

Highrises in Ireland and the UK were a basic cheap solution for people living in slums, just jam them into a tower block and hope the problem went away.

If you go to the continent you apartment living doesn't have the same bad image at all. It's definitely what we need to do. The thing is buildings not the problem any more, our government like all other governments has the hidden agenda of keeping house prices high to keep the voters happy. Property has become an investment rather than a basic right at it has left the people at the mercy of high rents and market manipulation.

mammajamma · 08-12-2018 08:34PM

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, see the problem with that is younger people like me have nowhere to live?

Believe me, I know plenty of people in similar situations, and its compete fookery.

Do you remember when we had a recession and there was plenty of housing to go around (even barring the stupid estates built in the middle of nowhere)?

Strange how it all filled up at the drop of a hat, isn't it?

Did you know that some of the multinationals employ as many as 70%+ non-irish people? Just one example.

Hmmmmmmmm! Maybe there is plenty of housing, but not enough housing to accommodate vast amounts of non-irish people. I cant remember where I got the number, but a couple years ago there were over 200'000 non-nationals living in Dublin? That's a big chunk (if I remember correctly)

So when someone looks around at the housing situation and feel completely dumbfounded by how it reached these proportions, there are a few join-the-dots to be considered.

Spanish Eyes · 08-12-2018 08:36PM

Continental high rise/apartment living has factored in the needs of families. Here, not so much, it is all predicated on the professionals it seems to me anyway.

Storage is a big thing.
So is laundry.
So is accessibility to PT
So is how kids will adapt.

So I suppose that has all been done by now. Yeah right.

_Kaiser_ · 08-12-2018 08:37PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

First thing to do is look at high rise apartment living in Continental Europe. Take some lessons.

Is there a basement storage area for the buggies, a couple of bikes, the Christmas tree, the suitcases etc?

Is there a place to dry your washing anywhere and if not is there a washer dryer?

Is there a place for your kids to play out safely?

Is there a shop/doctor/school/public transport etc. nearby?

Basic stuff for this kind of initiative.

Indeed.. this isn't a new idea and not something that we can't look to others for best practises.

The Irish measure of "success" being a 3/4-bed Semi-D in the suburbs though would need to change to. Not everyone needs, or probably wants, a house.. but renting is still a disaster and see as something to endure on the road to property ownership, and apartments are undesirable as they're generally tiny, badly laid out, with paper-thin soundproofing and not as marketable from a resale perspective.

All of that needs to change.

Spanish Eyes · 08-12-2018 08:39PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Indeed.. this isn't a new idea and not something that we can't look to others for best practises.

The Irish measure of "success" being a 3/4-bed Semi-D in the suburbs though would need to change to. Not everyone needs, or probably wants, a house.. but renting is still a disaster and see as something to endure on the road to property ownership, and apartments are undesirable as they're generally tiny, badly laid out, with paper-thin soundproofing and not as marketable from a resale perspective.

All of that needs to change.

Apartment living is not looked on as a good thing for families. That is the nub of the problem now I think.

But it can be done, and is done all over the world, if the facilities are there.

08-12-2018 08:42PM

High Rise isn't profitable for living accommodation in Dublin. The higher up you go the higher building cost. The only floor they can make a profit on is the penthouse. If we see any high rise it'll be hotels or offices, most likely with the top floor penthouse apartments.

Spanish Eyes · 08-12-2018 08:44PM

The biggest measure of success for any Housing Minister, is to accommodate those who are working and contributing with housing within the M50 ring.

If they had the cojones to limit those not working outside that limit it would really help imv.

Why would someone who is not working deserve housing within that limit?

I really wish someone would explain that to me now. But anyway....

Spanish Eyes · 08-12-2018 08:47PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

High Rise isn't profitable for living accommodation in Dublin. The higher up you go the higher building cost. The only floor they can make a profit on is the penthouse. If we see any high rise it'll be hotels or offices, most likely with the top floor penthouse apartments.

Does not have to be private building, if the Government wanted it. They can do it, but need to prioritise the applicants for such housing as contributors.

votecounts · 08-12-2018 08:49PM

With the history we have with building shoddy apartments with little or regulation in relation to health and safety. Do we really trust developers to build something that is not grenfell tower.

Wheeliebin30 · 08-12-2018 09:05PM

biko wrote: »

10 years since the last housing crisis/bubble/burst

Yet some people think with the click of a finger anyone who wants a house right now should have one...

08-12-2018 09:09PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Does not have to be private building, if the Government wanted it. They can do it, but need to prioritise the applicants for such housing as contributors.

But it does not matter if the government builds it. The building cost is still too great. It will be cheaper to build two buildings half the size than one big one. High rise isn't cheaper, its more expensive. There is no advantages in building higher. Its a myth that higher is cheaper.

Is building up the solution to the housing crisis?

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