Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

RobMc59 · 05-12-2018 06:00PM

Tell me how wrote: »

If the Brexiteers think the EU is being unfriendly to the UK since it voted to leave, wait until we see how they suggest that Scotland be treated should it make moves towards secession.

It will be outright bile and hatred.

Until whatever happens regarding brexit is actually decided the situation with Scotland is all speculation-if the UK remains then Scotland would likely be happy to remain in the UK-as they were before the brexit referendum.

Imreoir2 · 05-12-2018 06:02PM

RobMc59 wrote: »

Until whatever happens regarding brexit is actually decided the situation with Scotland is all speculation-if the UK remains then Scotland would likely be happy to remain in the UK-as they were before the brexit referendum.

Perhaps, though like NI it has been a lesson, if one were needed, in how little the citizens of Scotland matter to the political process in Westminster.

RobMc59 · 05-12-2018 06:07PM

Water John wrote: »

As a Cockney told me, there is only one crowd they hate more than the Scots and that's the Welsh.

That's probably an exaggeration-it's a rivalry -like Drogheda and Dundalk

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-12-2018 06:32PM

briany wrote: »

It's ironic that one of the talking points in the Scottish Independence Referendum was that they'd no longer be an EU member if they decided to leave the UK (and possibly have their membership application vetoed by the likes of Spain) and then 2 years later they were heading out of the EU anyway.

It's an absolutely massive change for Scotland, and an unwelcome one since they showed the greatest support for remaining in the EU from all four of the UK's constituent countries. Such a massive change that once again having the conversation over their constitutional status is a valid thing to do.

It is a massive change and the whole thrust of the No campaign (or Better Together) in the latter stages of the 2014 referendum was that staying in the UK was the only way to guarantee staying in the EU. Here are some examples

https://twitter.com/uk_together/status/506899714923843584?lang=en

10000maniacs · 05-12-2018 07:35PM

The DUP to support May in a no confidence vote if Tuesdays vote goes against her.

tuxy · 05-12-2018 07:37PM

Yes they won't back her deal but will support her in a no confidence vote.
The DUP are basically anarchists.

eire4 · 05-12-2018 07:44PM

Tell me how wrote: »

If the Brexiteers think the EU is being unfriendly to the UK since it voted to leave, wait until we see how they suggest that Scotland be treated should it make moves towards secession.

It will be outright bile and hatred.

Sadly I think your probably right. Even though the big lie told the last time was if you vote to leave your out of the EU and Spain will block you getting back in. Look how that turned out for them. Hard to see them not voting for independence given the circumstances brexit has forced on them if they chose to go down that road again.

A Dub in Glasgo · 05-12-2018 08:20PM

The Scottish Parliament puts the boot into the Tories (will mean nothing as the Tories just ignore the people of Scotland)

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1070362767327182848

tuxy · 05-12-2018 08:22PM

The Tories just can't their head about anyone else protecting their interests.

Seth Brundle · 05-12-2018 09:35PM

tuxy wrote: »

The Tories just can't their head about anyone else protecting their interests.

It's not that they can't get their head aroind anyone else's interests, its that they just don't care. Look back through history; when have they ever cared about anything outside of their Oxbridge or Etonian circle?

Captain Obvious · 05-12-2018 10:00PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

It's not that they can't get their head aroind anyone else's interests, its that they just don't care. Look back through history; when have they ever cared about anything outside of their Oxbridge or Etonian circle?

there was a woman on James O Brien today asking why the EU were treating the UK so badly and putting the boot in? She couldn't understand that the EU simply wanted the UK to comply with their obligations and that they wanted to preserve the union.

CPTM · 05-12-2018 10:19PM

It's a bit strange - not one mention of Brexit on the 9pm news tonight.? I would have thought everything happening today would make it a headline segment, but it hasn't even been mentioned.

FrancieBrady · 05-12-2018 10:34PM

CPTM wrote: »

It's a bit strange - not one mention of Brexit on the 9pm news tonight.? I would have thought everything happening today would make it a headline segment, but it hasn't even been mentioned.

Because we are laughing now? They will leave on our (the EU) terms or not leave at all.
Or have I missed something?

LuckyLloyd · 05-12-2018 11:02PM

There was no news today Brexit wise imo. What happened that changed anything? Plenty of Irish news.

sink · 05-12-2018 11:10PM

I've been reading up on the technical details of the backstop and it seems and absolutely crazy thing for the UK to voluntarily agree, but they did paint themselves into this corner.

Whilst NI is going to remain a full part of the EU customs union and will have the same terms as a member states. The GB part of the UK will be in a bespoke customs union with different terms.

GB will have full tariff free access to EU markets and vice-versa. However GB will have to permit goods market access to third countries on terms agreed by the EU without a say, but the aforementioned third parties won't have to open their market to GB goods. This is the same implementation as Turkey has for manufactured goods.

GB can technically negotiate it's own trade deals with third countries for services as they're not covered by the customs union. GB can also negotiate bespoke access to third countries export market for GB produced goods but without the ability to reciprocate.

I can't imagine they will ever negotiate a successful trade deal given those constraints. The only benefit to the UK seems to be an end to free movement (arguably not an actual benefit) and not having to pay fees. It's just bonkers.

CPTM · 05-12-2018 11:18PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There was no news today Brexit wise imo. What happened that changed anything? Plenty of Irish news.

Am I losing track of days? Wasn't the full legal advice published by the government today?

Hurrache · 05-12-2018 11:19PM

The overriding opinion in Ireland is that none of what was in the document was news really, it was already known for the most part.

Capt'n Midnight · 05-12-2018 11:28PM

briany wrote: »

Davies et al probably believes that the EU would throw in a quickie extension in order to get the t's crossed and the i's dotted.

Only if that's all that was left to do, and only if both sides were converging.

And it would be for minutiae not for substantive issues like the backstop.

And don't forget that this Deal isn't the FTA it's just a transition with an endpoint unless everyone agrees to extend it.

Enzokk · 05-12-2018 11:43PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

TM should have been working on garnering cross party support for the deal months ago. She instead tried to placate the ERG by talking tough, same with the DUP and at the same time treating any and all others with contempt.

She is now surprised that she is struggling to get any support. SHe has mislead and played politics with this issue from the start and now is demanding that others simply set all that aside and work for what best for UK and not think about her. She has actively made this all about her from the start of her term.

She was going to deliver, she was making the decisions, she was in charge, she was insulted by the EU etc.

Agreed, it is strange that she is now calling for compromise and for everyone to work together when she has totally ignored the 48% from the start. There is a lot of things she should have done, she should have worked with the Remainers from day one but she insisted on her red lines. She also kept disparaging those same Remainers and has been doing the same to EU citizens in the UK by referring to them as queue jumpers just recently. She truly is the second worst PM in history, luckily for her David Cameron beats her as he started this mess.

She is also reaping what she sowed when she screwed over Dominic Grieve and didn't hold up to her word on what she told him would happen. Now he will not drop his amendment as he did last time. Terrible person (possibly racist), terrible Home Secretary and a terrible PM.

Mr.Nice Guy · 05-12-2018 11:57PM

I'm amazed Westminster is still negotiating with itself. I thought this from the BBC's Katya Adler summed it up well...

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1070258300212658176

I'm now starting to wonder if the facts will ever be taken up.

10000maniacs · 06-12-2018 12:17AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm amazed Westminster is still negotiating with itself. I thought this from the BBC's Katya Adler summed it up well...
.

Even the BBC doesn't buy their BS anymore.
A debate between a remainer Prime Minister pretending to be a brexiteer and a brexiteer Labour leader pretending to be a remainer. Yeah right.

Charles Babbage · 06-12-2018 02:07AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'm now starting to wonder if the facts will ever be taken up.

The facts are not entirely suitable.

fash · 06-12-2018 03:22AM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Even the BBC doesn't buy their BS anymore.
A debate between a remainer Prime Minister pretending to be a brexiteer and a brexiteer Labour leader pretending to be a remainer. Yeah right.

She certainly was not a remainer: she is primarily an agnostic following whatever way the wind is blowing, but with a racist streak who personally dislikes FOM and European court (ECHR/ECJ) "interference". No more.

RobMc59 · 06-12-2018 08:53AM

The unfolding situation at the HoC has given the Scottish MPs an opportunity to rip into a beleaguered TM ,which is being viewed in many countries-have SF missed a golden opportunity to partake in what is arguably a once in a lifetime event?

zapitastas · 06-12-2018 08:59AM

RobMc59 wrote: »

The unfolding situation at the HoC has given the Scottish MPs an opportunity to rip into a beleaguered TM ,which is being viewed in many countries-have SF missed a golden opportunity to partake in what is arguably a once in a lifetime event?

It is not Sinn Fein's place to ride in to rescue the British from themselves. As a party who exist on the basis that the British should have no say in Irish affairs it would be a little hypocritical to then interfere in British affairs. Added to that their presence would cause further chaos in an already chaotic situation.

RobMc59 · 06-12-2018 09:05AM

zapitastas wrote: »

It is not Sinn Fein's place to ride in to rescue the British from themselves. As a party who exist on the basis that the British should have no say in Irish affairs it would be a little hypocritical to then interfere in British affairs. Added to that their presence would cause further chaos in an already chaotic situation.

I didn’t suggest they should rescue the British.I asked if they have missed an opportunity in the current situation.

Peregrinus · 06-12-2018 09:06AM

RobMc59 wrote: »

I didn’t suggest they should rescue the British.I asked if they have missed an opportunity in the current situation.

An opportunity to do what?

Seth Brundle · 06-12-2018 09:06AM

zapitastas wrote: »

It is not Sinn Fein's place to ride in to rescue the British from themselves. As a party who exist on the basis that the British should have no say in Irish affairs it would be a little hypocritical to then interfere in British affairs. Added to that their presence would cause further chaos in an already chaotic situation.

So why then do they stand in "foreign" elections?
I don't want this thread to become a SF bashing thread but SF by being absent are depriving NI people from having their voices heard. Stand down from their MP seats and let someone who will actually do the job take it

zapitastas · 06-12-2018 09:11AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So why then do they stand in "foreign" elections?
I don't want this thread to become a SF bashing thread but SF by being absent are depriving NI people from having their voices heard. Stand down from their MP seats and let someone who will actually do the job take it

You must not be very familiar with the history of abstention in this country. Reaches all the way back to the young irelanders in the 19th century. They stand in elections held in their own country but to a foreign parliment. Anyone who cast a vote for SF could hardly say they are surprised that they then didn't take their seats in Westminster. Not taking the seats is kind of the whole point in abstentionist policy

Peregrinus · 06-12-2018 09:12AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So why then do they stand in "foreign" elections?
I don't want this thread to become a SF bashing thread but SF by being absent are depriving NI people from having their voices heard. Stand down from their MP seats and let someone who will actually do the job take it

It's not Sinn Fein that prevents other candidates from representing the constituency; it's the voters. Sinn Fein can only take the seat in, in fact, they win the election. If Sinn Fein candidates offer themselves on an abstentionist position and are elected on that basis, I don't see any argument for saying that they should stand down.

Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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