Guards - your rights

Ragnar Lothbrok · 28-11-2018 05:34PM

nthclare wrote: »

I don't really care because at the end of the day if you've nothing to hide does it matter what they ask or what you tell them.

It all depends on how easily offended or wound up someone can be.
I'd answer politely if I was asked anything.

Now on the other hand if I was known to the guard's a social justice warrior or a snowflake leftie.
I'd be feeling victimised and make a big deal out of it.
It would probably end up a **** storm and they'ed have arrested me for being a stroppy wuss....

On the other hand, why give the Guards any information that you aren't legally obliged to? This is a democracy, not a police state.

I'm not anti-Guard, but some people seem to fawn all over the Guards as though they are something special and above the law.

I well remember the days when the Guards would stop and search members of Sinn Féin at random, with no good reason, just to be acting the bollix. It was pure harassment, and continued for a long time after the Good Friday Agreement was signed.

We knew that all we had to give legally was name and address, and I think a general idea of where we'd been and where we were going to. As far as I know that is still the case.

In general I think it's not a great idea to annoy the Guards when they're performing their duties, but also you need to bear in mind that civil liberties are also important.

nthclare · 28-11-2018 05:45PM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

On the other hand, why give the Guards any information that you aren't legally obliged to? This is a democracy, not a police state.

I'm not anti-Guard, but some people seem to fawn all over the Guards as though they are something special and above the law.

I well remember the days when the Guards would stop and search members of Sinn Féin at random, with no good reason, just to be acting the bollix. It was pure harassment, and continued for a long time after the Good Friday Agreement was signed.

We knew that all we had to give legally was name and address, and I think a general idea of where we'd been and where we were going to. As far as I know that is still the case.

In general I think it's not a great idea to annoy the Guards when they're performing their duties, but also you need to bear in mind that civil liberties are also important.

I understand about civil liberties and being harassed etc.

I grew up in Shannon during the 70's and 80's beliefs you me I know all about harassment and guard's searching house's and people of a political persuasion.

I suppose I'm coming from the perspective of it all in layman's terms.

I've nothing to hide, I don't have anything to declare.
I don't care.

It's usually people who are snowflakey, sjw's or know to the guard's who are searched.

If I was searched in the wrong, I'd shake myself off and get on with it.
I don't need to be a wuss and be bouncing off the road because I was mistaken for someone else.
I don't care really.

It's a difference of opinions and reactions to it all.

Years ago if a guy had muscles a beard and a tattoo of an anchor on their arm they'ed be refused admission to almost anywhere with a doorman.

Now it's people who have the whole armada inked onto their arms who are top of the guest list.....

28-11-2018 06:07PM

demanufactured wrote: »

Do you have something to hide OP?
If not, answer their questions and move on....

They do not have carte blanche to ask any question of you, and you are well within your rights to refuse, within reason, requests from a Garda.

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Gardai seem to do as they please for any given reason in particular to any situation and what suites them to get away with. They seem to be just fine with ignoring the oath in which they took in upholding the constitution.

Deleted User wrote: »

In certain cases you have to disclose whatever information is being asked of you.

They are well versed in how to use and abuse their powers. I've witnessed firsthand the following conversation:

Q - Have you any I.D.?
A - I do, but I wasn't doing anything why do you want to see my ID?
Q - Don't be acting the smartarse now, are you refusing to follow the direction of a member of the Guards?
A - I haven't been directed to do anything
Q - I'm directing you under the Public Order Act to hand over your I.D., are you refusing to comply?
A - Huh?......That's not what "following the direction" of the Guards means, you can't direct people to do something that they're not legally obliged to do otherwise, surely? What if you directed me to strip off here in the middle of O'Connell Street and I refused?
Q - that's it, smartarse, you're under arrest.

Summons, court appearance and a fine for €250 followed soon after.

Would it have been cheaper to just give name and address?....Sure
Was it an abuse of power, though?..........Most definitely
But sure, if you've nothing to hide.........why not just give them your name, what harm can come of it?........How about a day in the joy locked up with a load of scumbags.

28-11-2018 06:09PM

nthclare wrote: »

It's usually people who are snowflakey, sjw's or know to the guard's who are searched.

Is it really? How do the Guards know they're SJWs or "Snowflakey" in order to single them out and search them?

Captain Obvious · 28-11-2018 06:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They do not have carte blanche to ask any question of you, and you are well within your rights to refuse, within reason, requests from a Garda.

The judges rules say they can ask anyone anything.

28-11-2018 06:32PM

Do the judges rules say that you must answer/comply?

What if they ask you to suck them off? Or to commit a crime?

nthclare · 28-11-2018 06:36PM

They usually look a bit shifty lol

Captain Obvious · 28-11-2018 06:56PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do the judges rules say that you must answer/comply?

No.

endacl · 28-11-2018 07:03PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Do we need to attach 'this is a joke' labels now things have got so bad

Dunno. I’d read some of your other posts, so...

STB. · 28-11-2018 07:03PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

This is the shi=te I was talking about....full snowflake mode enabled.

There is nothing shite about civil liberties.

There is something shíte about a member of AGS taking a liberty by abusing the power that has been bestowed upon them.

Gardai are agents of the state. The state in turn gets its power from the people.

Calling people snowflakes because they refuse to drop their rights as citizens is horseshíte.

Raheem Euro · 28-11-2018 07:09PM

endacl wrote: »

Dunno. I’d read some of your other posts, so...

A simple joke went over your head because you read some of my other posts?

Those who can't, teach, endacl.

AllForIt · 28-11-2018 07:10PM

What does Síochána mean? In the UK you don't have The Police Síochána.

Raheem Euro · 28-11-2018 07:17PM

AllForIt wrote: »

What does Síochána mean? In the UK you don't have The Police Síochána.

It means 'peace'. Guardians of the Peace. The RIC and Dublin Metropolitan Police had PR issues under British rule. The new irish police was to be a soft sell. A fluffy, friendly, unarmed friends of the people - guardians.

AllForIt · 28-11-2018 07:34PM

Raheem Euro wrote: »

It means 'peace'. Guardians of the Peace. The RIC and Dublin Metropolitan Police had PR issues under British rule. The new irish police was to be a soft sell. A fluffy, friendly, unarmed friends of the people - guardians.

Guardians of the peace ! I prefer The Peace Police lol.

Never knew dat.

28-11-2018 07:39PM

AllForIt wrote: »

What does Síochána mean? In the UK you don't have The Police Síochána.

That's because the British don't speak Irish.........

Squatter · 28-11-2018 08:20PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

This is the shi=te I was talking about....full snowflake mode enabled.

Some day you or I, or someone that one of us knows, may be very grateful that the ICCL went to the trouble of compiling and publishing that document.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-11-2018 12:58AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Claim the 5th Amendment! (and record their facial expressions when you do!)

The State recognises the special position of the Holy Catholic Apostolic and Roman Church as the guardian of the Faith professed by the great majority of the citizens.

arccosh · 29-11-2018 08:29AM

nthclare wrote: »

I don't really care because at the end of the day if you've nothing to hide does it matter what they ask or what you tell them.

It all depends on how easily offended or wound up someone can be.
I'd answer politely if I was asked anything.

Now on the other hand if I was known to the guard's a social justice warrior or a snowflake leftie.
I'd be feeling victimised and make a big deal out of it.
It would probably end up a **** storm and they'ed have arrested me for being a stroppy wuss....

Wouldn't entirely agree... I got stopped in my teens numerous times and had no problem supplying the usual,
Name, address, where I'm coming from, where I'm going to..

Got searched also a number of times, which I had no problem with, where I lived if you came across the guards after a certian time, it was pretty commonplace...

then one time after a search, they unlock my phone and start going through my messages, phone book and last dialled... which I questioned and I was told I can "either do it here or down the station"....

I thought the last bit was a step too far... there was nothing to hide, but at the same time, two guards taking liberties and blatently flouting the law I'm not happy with... (technically you need a search warrant, unless it's impeading certain investigations, which you're supposed to be informed about, which I wasn't)

Don't get me wrong, there are some fantastic gardai, but ever since then I've always been very to the point if I am in a situation where gardai are asking me questions... no more, no less, and have awareness of my basic rights so something like that doesn't happen again.

I really should have called their bluff, but it just wasn't worth the hassle, and probably would have led to highlighting myself for future searches when I was in a similar situation ... but it still didn't make it right.

seamus · 29-11-2018 10:04AM

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

On the other hand, why give the Guards any information that you aren't legally obliged to? This is a democracy, not a police state.

To be helpful?

A couple of times I've encountered Gardai outside a place where they're doing an investigation. They stop everyone and ask them questions.

They're not trying to pin the blame on someone. But if someone was shot in a house at 6pm on a Monday, then there's a reasonable chance that if you stand outside at 6pm the next day, you'll meet the same people who were walking by at 6pm the previous day. They may be witnesses to the crime or at least be able to provide some useful info.

It's all contextual. If a Garda randomly stops you in the middle of the street and starts demanding information, then you've a right to ask him what the story is.

If they're conducting an investigation and want to know if you have any information, then you're not being big or clever by being obstructive, you're just wasting everyone's time, including your own.

They put up with enough bull**** from scumbags without ordinary people giving them sh1t for having the gall to conduct investigations.

razorblunt · 29-11-2018 10:10AM

Make sure they read you your Fernando rights.

LiamoSail · 29-11-2018 10:12AM

nthclare wrote: »

I don't really care because at the end of the day if you've nothing to hide does it matter what they ask or what you tell them.
..

Very naive to believe that the Gardai will act justly, particularly given they've demonstrated themselves incapable of doing so time and time again. Last week's news being a prime example.

Personally I'd give them as little info as possible. I've as much respect for any Garda as I do for any typical criminal (not that there's much of a distinction). At least the latter is more honest about their law breaking

Cienciano · 29-11-2018 10:17AM

nthclare wrote: »

I don't really care because at the end of the day if you've nothing to hide does it matter what they ask or what you tell them.

It all depends on how easily offended or wound up someone can be.
I'd answer politely if I was asked anything.

Now on the other hand if I was known to the guard's a social justice warrior or a snowflake leftie.
I'd be feeling victimised and make a big deal out of it.
It would probably end up a **** storm and they'ed have arrested me for being a stroppy wuss....

Pity Donald Trump doesn't take your advice.

weldoninhio · 29-11-2018 10:24AM

I remember when I was around 16/17 and was at an U-18 disco in the next village over from mine. Me and a friend were waiting at a bus stop for the last bus home after it. We were literally just standing there, at a bus stop.

A garda car pulls over,

"What are ye up to lads",
"Just waiting for the last bus, its due in the next few minutes",
"Well you can't just stand around, it's loitering",
"Its a bus stop",
"Well you can't just hang around here, move on, start walking",
"But we've to get to Rush",
"Well you can't just hang around here",
"We aren't hanging around, we're waiting for a bus thats due in the next 5 minutes",
"Move on lads, or else",
"Well then could you give us a lift to Rush",
"What do we look like, a taxi service?"

He then proceeds to get out of the car and tell us if we don't start walking that he'll bring us to Balbriggan station and make us walk from there at 3am.

At this point one of the local Chinese takeaway drivers pulled up and asked if we wanted a lift. Worth bearing in mind that the road the cop wanted two 16/17yos home had no paths, no lights and was extremely dangerous.

Lucky we had nothing to hide, eh?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ray Palmer · 29-11-2018 10:54AM

It is pretty clear you must provide your name and address. The question I have is do you have to spell it for them? My surname is often spelt incorrectly as people don't listen and there is another. Like somebody called "Smith" and another called "Smyth". It may seem minor but if they send out a summons or fine with the wrong name it isn't for you.
The name thing can cause lots of problems but there is that one benefit. My dad go out of so many traffic fines over the years because of it. Thought it was cool when a kid but now I think he was an ass for speeding and parking illegally so often.

Captain Obvious · 29-11-2018 10:57AM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is pretty clear you must provide your name and address. The question I have is do you have to spell it for them? My surname is often spelt incorrectly as people don't listen and there is another. Like somebody called "Smith" and another called "Smyth". It may seem minor but if they send out a summons or fine with the wrong name it isn't for you.
The name thing can cause lots of problems but there is that one benefit. My dad go out of so many traffic fines over the years because of it. Thought it was cool when a kid but now I think he was an ass for speeding and parking illegally so often.

That doesn't make much sense. If it was a speed camera it takes the name from your registration details. If it's a traffic stop then they can demand your licence. And a misspelled name isn't a get out of jail free card.

seamus · 29-11-2018 12:27PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense. If it was a speed camera it takes the name from your registration details. If it's a traffic stop then they can demand your licence. And a misspelled name isn't a get out of jail free card.

It used to be, but not any more. If it's clear that the summons or fine is for you regardless of the spelling, then a judge will deem it valid.

That is unless you can prove that there is a "John Smith" and a "Jon Smyth" both living at the same address.

More typical clerical errors which will make a fine invalid, are the wrong date or location on the fine, or an incorrect car reg (assuming it's completely wrong and not just illegible).

Ray Palmer · 29-11-2018 12:57PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That doesn't make much sense. If it was a speed camera it takes the name from your registration details. If it's a traffic stop then they can demand your licence. And a misspelled name isn't a get out of jail free card.

Firstly there was a time before speed cameras it was my dad a long time ago. Secondly they write things down even still. Thirdly a misspelled name certainly will get you off a fine.Letter arrives with the wrong name you never open it and return it.
But in the last 5 years this happened.
My mother drove through a speed camera 3 times and never knew what happened and went off to the states for a while. When she came back she had 3 speeding fines but the name was wrong. Turns out the guy registering the car misspelled our surname. She rang up the gardai, she explained what had happened but didn't know about the registration. They looked in to it found the registration problem told her to get it fixed and said the fines were void. Now I suspect there was some element of being nice to a little old lady but it was down to the name.

Esel · 29-11-2018 02:51PM

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It is pretty clear you must provide your name and address.

Only if the Garda is demanding it under a particular statute.

Ragnar Lothbrok · 29-11-2018 03:39PM

seamus wrote: »

To be helpful?

A couple of times I've encountered Gardai outside a place where they're doing an investigation. They stop everyone and ask them questions.

They're not trying to pin the blame on someone. But if someone was shot in a house at 6pm on a Monday, then there's a reasonable chance that if you stand outside at 6pm the next day, you'll meet the same people who were walking by at 6pm the previous day. They may be witnesses to the crime or at least be able to provide some useful info.

It's all contextual. If a Garda randomly stops you in the middle of the street and starts demanding information, then you've a right to ask him what the story is.

If they're conducting an investigation and want to know if you have any information, then you're not being big or clever by being obstructive, you're just wasting everyone's time, including your own.

They put up with enough bull**** from scumbags without ordinary people giving them sh1t for having the gall to conduct investigations.

To be honest (despite previous bad experiences with the Guards when Republicans were continuously harassed for no good reason) I'd tend to agree with what seamus has posted above.

If the Guards are genuinely looking for assistance with an investigation then I'd almost certainly help them out if I could.

However, the original question asked whether a person is legally required to answer a Guards questions, and as many posters have said, there are only very specific questions that must legally be answered and even then the questions must be asked in a specific way.

Raheem Euro · 29-11-2018 03:45PM

Legally change your name by deed pole to
"No Comment" and let the fun commence.

Guards - your rights

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