The Mega Mk7 Golf GTI/GTD/R thread

DaveyDave · 27-11-2018 04:05PM

I know all tyres wear differently on different cars but seeing heavier, higher performance cars getting more life out of sticky tyres than my Bridgestone Turanza on the Highline is good to know.

I'd consider something with more grip for the next set so it's interesting to see they're a bit more for your money than I thought.

Hebegeebee · 27-11-2018 06:39PM

DaveyDave wrote: »

I'd consider something with more grip for the next set so it's interesting to see they're a bit more for your money than I thought.

It very much depends when, where and what size you’re buying. Continental Premium Contact 6 (225/40/18) for €90 a corner bought online over the summer. €20 a corner fitted locally.

digiman · 27-11-2018 06:45PM

JoeA3 wrote: »

That low GFV is to your advantage imo. A tidy 3 year old GTI, old model or not, will be worth a fair chunk more than 16k. Mid 20k’s at least. This means that at 3 years you have a reasonable chunk of equity to roll into a new car. It being the “old” model will impact residuals a little but not hugely imo.

Contrast this with say BMW. High GFV, very low or even no equity at the end.

People mention this alot but in money terms is it really any different? You are still going to pay the same amount for the car though? You either pay a lower monthly and have a high GMFV or pay a higher monthly to get a lower GMFV. But which ever way you do it I don't see how you pay anymore or less for the car.

I'd rather have the higher GMFV as that puts more risk on the car maker and lowers your own risk as if the price of the car is less than the GMFV you could just hand it back then.

nim1bdeh38l2cw · 28-11-2018 10:23AM

digiman wrote: »

People mention this alot but in money terms is it really any different? You are still going to pay the same amount for the car though? You either pay a lower monthly and have a high GMFV or pay a higher monthly to get a lower GMFV. But which ever way you do it I don't see how you pay anymore or less for the car.

I'd rather have the higher GMFV as that puts more risk on the car maker and lowers your own risk as if the price of the car is less than the GMFV you could just hand it back then.

Shirley the GMFV is the same, it's the deposit that varies the monthly payment?

JoeA3 · 28-11-2018 11:20AM

digiman wrote: »

People mention this alot but in money terms is it really any different? You are still going to pay the same amount for the car though? You either pay a lower monthly and have a high GMFV or pay a higher monthly to get a lower GMFV. But which ever way you do it I don't see how you pay anymore or less for the car.

I'd rather have the higher GMFV as that puts more risk on the car maker and lowers your own risk as if the price of the car is less than the GMFV you could just hand it back then.

The GMFV does not vary. This is set in stone by the manufacturer. The only thing that can vary your monthly is how much deposit you put up front (5% up to 30%). VW set the GFV relatively low, so as to entice customers to come back in after 3 years with healthy equity in the car, and happy to roll into another 3 year deal. Then they have VW Bank behind them offering 0% (or close to), so the monthlies seem attractive.

Alternatively, some manufacturers, particularly the premium ones (BMW, Merc) set the GFV much higher relative to its actual worth in 3 years. This has the effect of making the monthlies seem OK and also offsets the fact that its usually 4-5% APR. And of course, we're talking 50-60k cars here. Trouble is, the customer has very little equity in the end, so it becomes a very expensive purchase overall, unless you plan on keeping it.

Mickiemcfist · 28-11-2018 11:31AM

digiman wrote: »

People mention this alot but in money terms is it really any different? You are still going to pay the same amount for the car though? You either pay a lower monthly and have a high GMFV or pay a higher monthly to get a lower GMFV. But which ever way you do it I don't see how you pay anymore or less for the car.

I'd rather have the higher GMFV as that puts more risk on the car maker and lowers your own risk as if the price of the car is less than the GMFV you could just hand it back then.

It differs in money terms if you're paying interest on the PCP, if your GMFV is low, you'll repay more over the term & pay less interest.
However, if you're on zero percent interest it makes no odds - however people rarely think about saving alongside the PCP repayments therefore end up with potentially another loan at the end to buy the car outright.

Technically the best method is: 0% interest, lowest deposit & highest possible GMFV, pay a fraction per month but save enough monthly to cover the GMFV at the end.

NIMAN · 28-11-2018 02:14PM

Aliana Low Stepmother wrote: »

Shirley the GMFV is the same, it's the deposit that varies the monthly payment?

..... and don't call me Shirley.

Rusky rusky · 28-11-2018 03:20PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

It differs in money terms if you're paying interest on the PCP, if your GMFV is low, you'll repay more over the term & pay less interest

This is incorrect. You pay interest on the full price of the car less the deposit. GMFV will influence the monthly repayments but the amount of interest will be the same.

Mickiemcfist · 28-11-2018 03:40PM

Rusky rusky wrote: »

This is incorrect. You pay interest on the full price of the car less the deposit. GMFV will influence the monthly repayments but the amount of interest will be the same.

So you're saying that in month 35 of a 36 month PCP plan, you're still paying interest on the full value of the car-deposit? That's not the case in any of the calculators I've used

dar83 · 28-11-2018 04:00PM

You pay interest on the amount borrowed, which is everything minus your deposit. The GMFV doesn't get segregated from this as a separate chunk of money, it's something you pay interest on from the first payment onwards.

this is why a 0% finance deal can make a pretty large difference in your monthly repayments with the same deposit and GMFV (which as confirmed by others, is always the same anyway).

Mickiemcfist · 28-11-2018 04:14PM

dar83 wrote: »

You pay interest on the amount borrowed, which is everything minus your deposit. The GMFV doesn't get segregated from this as a separate chunk of money, it's something you pay interest on from the first payment onwards.

this is why a 0% finance deal can make a pretty large difference in your monthly repayments with the same deposit and GMFV (which as confirmed by others, is always the same anyway).

You pay interest on the amount borrowed, which is everything minus your deposit & your previous repayments - ergo - higher repayments/lower GMFV = lower interest cost

drunkmonkey · 28-11-2018 04:19PM

Are they doing 0% on the GTi, I was quoted 1.9%

vintagevrs · 28-11-2018 04:43PM

This is why PCP lenders can afford to give lower interest rates I would imagine. Having a larger some borrowed for the length of the agreement means more interest, with the exception of 0% deals. So 1.9% PCP could have similar interest on 3.9% HP.

dar83 · 28-11-2018 04:45PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You pay interest on the amount borrowed, which is everything minus your deposit & your previous repayments - ergo - higher repayments/lower GMFV = lower interest cost

You repayments remain the same for the duration of the agreement and in this context, I'm not sure what previous repayments you're talking about?

Rusky rusky · 28-11-2018 04:47PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

You pay interest on the amount borrowed, which is everything minus your deposit & your previous repayments - ergo - higher repayments/lower GMFV = lower interest cost

Nope. In PCP the interest is charged on the full sum and predetermined from a day one. Its included in your monthly payments. The highest interest is paid at the beginning and towards the end of the term it reduces to 0. I’ve seen it in my own pcp statements. The GMFV will just adjust the interest portion of your each monthly repayment, but the total should be the same as you pay interest on the full sum.

Mickiemcfist · 28-11-2018 04:49PM

dar83 wrote: »

You repayments remain the same for the duration of the agreement and in this context, I'm not sure what previous repayments you're talking about?

Pretend interest is 3k in the first year, 2k in the second year & 1k in the third year

They divide the total interest at the start, by the amount of repayments - 6000/36 = interest of 167 per month + capital repayments = total repayment, even though you're incurring less interest in the second & third years, the repayment remains the same figure.

Mickiemcfist · 28-11-2018 04:51PM

Rusky rusky wrote: »

Nope. In PCP the interest is charged on the full sum and predetermined from a day one. Its included in your monthly payments. The highest interest is paid at the beginning and toward the end it reduces to 0. I’ve seen it in my own pcp statements. The GMFV will just adjust the interest portion of your each monthly repayment, but the total should be the same as you pay interest on the full sum.

I give up.

http://www.pcp-calculator.com/PCP-loan-calculator.html

Adjust the GMFV figure & see the cost of finance change

dar83 · 28-11-2018 04:55PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Pretend interest is 3k in the first year, 2k in the second year & 1k in the third year

They divide the total interest at the start, by the amount of repayments - 6000/36 = interest of 167 per month + capital repayments = total repayment, even though you're incurring less interest in the second & third years, the repayment remains the same figure.

I think we're trying to make the same point but from different angles. :P

I agree with you anyway, haha.

Rusky rusky · 28-11-2018 05:57PM

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I give up.

http://www.pcp-calculator.com/PCP-loan-calculator.html

Adjust the GMFV figure & see the cost of finance change

Vw finance website shows that they use effective rate applied to the ballon payment over duration of the term while the balance attracts a flat rate. The effective rate is higher than nominal rate and depends on the compounding. Assuming that compounding is the same then the bigger ballon payment should attract a bigger interest. I guess that’s the difference we see:)

digiman · 28-11-2018 10:43PM

JoeA3 wrote: »

The GMFV does not vary. This is set in stone by the manufacturer. The only thing that can vary your monthly is how much deposit you put up front (5% up to 30%). VW set the GFV relatively low, so as to entice customers to come back in after 3 years with healthy equity in the car, and happy to roll into another 3 year deal. Then they have VW Bank behind them offering 0% (or close to), so the monthlies seem attractive.

Alternatively, some manufacturers, particularly the premium ones (BMW, Merc) set the GFV much higher relative to its actual worth in 3 years. This has the effect of making the monthlies seem OK and also offsets the fact that its usually 4-5% APR. And of course, we're talking 50-60k cars here. Trouble is, the customer has very little equity in the end, so it becomes a very expensive purchase overall, unless you plan on keeping it.

Sorry for taking so long to respond to this, been a busy day!!

Firstly, when I mention the GMFV varies, I'm saying that it varies between manufacturers.

I'll take a similar enough example from Audi and BMW, both are offering 2.9% APR but have different GMFV. I've tried to compare 2 cars that are more or less at the same on price and as close as possible on spec to make my point.

My argument is that I'd rather have a higher GMFV, pay less over 3 years and worry about the next car in 3 years time.

So to illustrate I'm comparing an Audi A6 3.0L Sline priced at E64k and a 530D SE priced at E64,755.

Car Audi 3L QuattroSline BMW 530D SE
Price 64000 64755
Deposit 19200 19427
APR 2.90% 2.90%
GMFV 26880 24,073
GMFV/Price 42.00% 37.18%
Monthly 581.79 674
Interest Paid 3174 3070
Total Paid 40144.44 43691

So for the Audi you are paying around E3K less over the 3 years than you are with the BMW due to the higher GMFV of the Audi and the interest amount is negligible in this example. If the arse falls out of the car market in a few years time you are better protected by having a higher GMFV and you have spent 3k less over the 3 years also which you can put into your next car as a deposit if you wish.

The biggest highlight out of this for me though is the difference between price between BMW and Audi, the Audi is a quicker car with much nicer trim for a cheaper price. The equivalent BMW spec wise is E69.5K.

carsfan2 · 29-11-2018 12:12AM

Where did you get 64k for the Audi?
The A6 s line with the more powerful 3.0 litre engine is 68200euro on the Audi configurator and when you add 1500 for metallic and then delivery also it’s over 70k before any options.
The 530d m sport is just under 69k But metallic is standard. Obviously it doesn’t have four wheel drive which is nearly 75k.
Both cars are 2.9% apr. Both cars will lose a fortune in value over three years.
Surely at this level of depreciation, 3k is only 1k a year and not worth being a deciding factor between the two?
After all you could be spending 40k odd and have little or no equity and maybe be handing the car back in a worst case scenario.

drunkmonkey · 29-11-2018 12:17AM

digiman wrote: »

My argument is that I'd rather have a higher GMFV, pay less over 3 years and worry about the next car in 3 years time.

Mmm i'm not convinced, you'll have put in a 19k deposit, 24k in payments, and need to stump up another 19k in 36mts to get a new car. You've went through 62k of hard cash in 37 months.

Zubeneschamali · 29-11-2018 11:05AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Mmm i'm not convinced, you'll have put in a 19k deposit, 24k in payments, and need to stump up another 19k in 36mts to get a new car. You've went through 62k of hard cash in 37 months.

You are counting 2 new cars worth 64K each in that 37 months.

The more realistic figure is you bought a 64k car for 67K, and after 3 years it is worth 25K. You spent 42K on car depreciation+interest over 3 years.

Cars are spendy.

drunkmonkey · 29-11-2018 11:50AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

You are counting 2 new cars worth 64K each in that 37 months.

Back to the GFV on the Gti where you've equity left for a new one. You've spent 25k on 2 new GTi's in the same period. Granted your down 20bhp on the 530d but your up 40k.

Zubeneschamali · 29-11-2018 11:58AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Back to the GFV on the Gti where you've equity left for a new one. You've spent 25k on 2 new GTi's in the same period. Granted your down 20bhp on the 530d but your up 40k.

Because two 530ds cost ~130K, and two GTIs cost ~90K

This has nothing to do with GMFV - you are comparing cars with wildly different list prices.

hooch-85 · 29-11-2018 12:00PM

I think what he is getting at is this thread is about Mk7 Golf's and not arguing over PCP strategies, there's plenty of other thread's already for that.

dar83 · 29-11-2018 05:16PM

hooch-85 wrote: »

I think what he is getting at is this thread is about Mk7 Golf's and not arguing over PCP strategies, there's plenty of other thread's already for that.

No, you're wrong, because, internet!

I now challenge you to a 30 post duel on the merits of internet arguments.... go!

:P

MK7 related, anyone succumb to any black Friday specials this year? I had planned on a potential Revo adjustment, but they eh decided not to do any black Friday offers this year and instead decided to run some crappy global competition.

Neilw · 29-11-2018 05:20PM

dar83 wrote: »

No, you're wrong, because, internet!

I now challenge you to a 30 post duel on the merits of internet arguments.... go!

:P

MK7 related, anyone succumb to any black Friday specials this year? I had planned on a potential Revo adjustment, but they eh decided not to do any black Friday offers this year and instead decided to run some crappy global competition.

There was an offer of zero vat, so 23% discount. A friend of mine had his Audi done.

hooch-85 · 29-11-2018 05:21PM

I was looking at springs from Awesome in the UK and they were working out quite cheap, didn't go for them in the end.

Looked at Revo too but the offer was pretty weak, went for custom tune instead. Have a look at my thread on autostadt and you'll see how it went:)

Planning a set of BBS SR next year in grey and some slight lowering and i'll be happy with that

hooch-85 · 29-11-2018 05:21PM

Neilw wrote: »

There was an offer of zero vat, so 23% discount. A friend of mine had his Audi done.

That VAT rate on their maps was 13.5% so i read in the small print.

The Mega Mk7 Golf GTI/GTD/R thread

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