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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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Comments

  • #9332
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,833 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Mueller's team are pulling Manafort's plea deal due to him lying to them.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/prosecutors-allege-paul-manafort-lied-to-investigators.html
    "After signing the plea agreement, Manafort committed federal crimes by lying to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Special Counsel's Office on a variety of subject matters, which constitute breaches of the agreement," prosecutors said in the document, filed in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

    Manafort, meanwhile, "believes believes he has provided truthful information and does not agree with the government's characterization or that he has breached the agreement," according to the filing.

    The filing notes that Manafort's alleged breach maintains all of his obligations under the deal, but relieves the special counsel of its own duties – "including its agreement to a reduction in the Sentencing Guidelines for acceptance of responsibility."

    The special counsel and Manafort both asked the judge to sentence the former Trump campaign chairman.

    The filing did not mention what Manafort is specifically alleged to have lied about. It was also not clear whether Mueller will file new charges against Manafort in light of the allegations.

    Interesting that it means Manafort is still obliged to keep working with them, but they are no longer obliged to offer him any deal or reduced sentence, and can proceed with new or further charges. What the important takeaway is however, is that they knew he was lying about certain things. They wouldn't be taking this action if they didn't have other evidence showing he is lying, which means Manafort's testimony is part of the puzzle, but the investigation isn't dependent on what he knows and they can bypass him if needs be.

    Either way, really seems like Manafort is done for now.


  • #9333
    relax carry on
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,161 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    seamus wrote: »
    I see Donnie throwing his oar into the EU/UK withdrawal agreement too.

    So we know a few things;

    1. He hasn't and won't read the WA
    2. He hasn't and won't listen to someone else summarise the WA
    3. Any "trade deal" between the UK and US is hot air, it doesn't exist.

    So the only rational conclusion here is that someone else has told him to speak negatively about the WA. Probably because no WA means less stability in Europe.

    I wonder who could want a less stable Europe....? Perhaps someone who is trying to annex some European countries...

    So given everything we know about Trump from his character, his temperament, his level of intelligence, his business acumen (or lack thereof), his narcissism, his misogyny, his racism, his pathological lying, his lack of empathy and compassion; at this stage is it safe to conclude that he is compromised?

    Short question, from what we know of him can he be easily manipulated?


  • #9334
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Christy42 wrote: »
    You are meant to claim asylum in the first country you enter in Europe. That is a very different deal and amounts to claiming asylum in the first 1st world country you get to in Europe. And then you have EU movement regulations allowing easier movement than Mexico to USA.

    You mention many suffer under this immigration process to do it right. I am not really sure that is an argument in its favour really. Leaving people's spouses in dangerous countries for up to 2 years is not a glowing review of the American system really. That is not helping your case.

    No one here has suggested simply letting the entire caravan in that I have seen. There are much more frequent calls to let them apply for asylum like they should be able to.

    Again people ignore the point that the US is obligated to offer these people a legal route to asylum. Until that is addressed, other arguments are largely pointless.

    So then Ireland, the uk and france shouldnt have had to take any of the syrian migrants then ? Since they didnt land there first ,


  • #9335
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    seamus wrote: »
    I see Donnie throwing his oar into the EU/UK withdrawal agreement too.

    So we know a few things;

    1. He hasn't and won't read the WA
    2. He hasn't and won't listen to someone else summarise the WA
    3. Any "trade deal" between the UK and US is hot air, it doesn't exist.

    So the only rational conclusion here is that someone else has told him to speak negatively about the WA. Probably because no WA means less stability in Europe.

    I wonder who could want a less stable Europe....? Perhaps someone who is trying to annex some European countries...

    Oh, I don't think we need to dig that deep into it.

    I think Trump simply likes to cause trouble and can see that making noises will pile pressure on TM and thus make his job easier. TM played right into his hands with her desperate dash to the WH when he was elected and being so accommodating to him in terms of the Queens visit and staying schtum when his interview came to light.

    Trump knows he cannot handle Macron or Merkel, so he wants to make the UK as weak as possible. I don't even think it is about trade deals, just he wants to be the big man in charge.


  • #9336
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    So then Ireland, the uk and france shouldnt have had to take any of the syrian migrants then ? Since they didnt land there first ,

    And they don't have to. It is an agreement between the EU countries to try (miserably) to spread the 'costs' around a bit as it is unfair for Greece and Italy to suffer the entire burden.

    But there is a clear moral need to try to help these people. They are refugees not because they simply choose to go for a bit of an old walk one day. They are fleeing war and famine. War and famine, in large part, helped by the US. But the US refuses to take its responsibility as humans for the damage they cause so it is left to the EU to try to deal with it (and they are not doing a very good job to this point).

    What should be done with all those people that lose their homes in the wildfires, or floods? Should they be forced to stay where they are and simply get on with things? Or is this simply because they are foreigners?

    But the UK refused to take a fair share.


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  • #9337
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Penn wrote: »
    Mueller's team are pulling Manafort's plea deal due to him lying to them.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/26/prosecutors-allege-paul-manafort-lied-to-investigators.html



    Interesting that it means Manafort is still obliged to keep working with them, but they are no longer obliged to offer him any deal or reduced sentence, and can proceed with new or further charges. What the important takeaway is however, is that they knew he was lying about certain things. They wouldn't be taking this action if they didn't have other evidence showing he is lying, which means Manafort's testimony is part of the puzzle, but the investigation isn't dependent on what he knows and they can bypass him if needs be.

    Either way, really seems like Manafort is done for now.


    This article is an interesting take on the latest developments
    Robert Mueller Set Ingenious Trap For Trump In Collusion Case And Tricked Manafort Into Helping, Experts Say
    Because Robert Mueller has accused Paul Manafort of breaking his plea deal by lying to investigators, he will get a chance to air his Donald Trump collusion allegations in public, experts say.

    Paul Manafort, Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign chair, lied to federal investigators in the Donald Trump Russia collusion investigation, even after Manafort struck a plea deal with prosecutors agreeing to fully cooperate with them in the case in exchange for a lighter sentence, according to a new court filing that the Inquisitr reported earlier today. But according to some experts on the case, Russia investigation Special Counsel Robert Mueller set an elaborate trap with the plea deal, a trap that has now ensnared Trump himself — and Manafort walked right into it.

    Because he expects a pardon from Trump, Manafort felt free to lie to investigators while also acting as a “mole” for Trump, feeding him information about what he falsely told Mueller, according to national security journalist Marcy Wheeler, writing on her Empty Wheel site.

    Pure hypothesis of course , but an interesting theory none the less.


  • #9338
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    how would you stop them all entering as explained so ?
    There is zero need to stop people from entry into the US through a lawful port.


  • #9339
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,833 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Oh, I don't think we need to dig that deep into it.

    I think Trump simply likes to cause trouble and can see that making noises will pile pressure on TM and thus make his job easier. TM played right into his hands with her desperate dash to the WH when he was elected and being so accommodating to him in terms of the Queens visit and staying schtum when his interview came to light.

    Trump knows he cannot handle Macron or Merkel, so he wants to make the UK as weak as possible. I don't even think it is about trade deals, just he wants to be the big man in charge.

    I think he's making it so the UK votes down the EU Withdrawal Agreement, forcing the UK out with No Deal, then Trump holds all the cards when it comes to negotiating a deal with the UK. He doesn't care what happens in Europe, he just wants to be able to announce the US signed a great new trade deal with the UK.

    Hell, you could even take it further than that and posit that such a trade deal could result in US companies making bigger strides into UK markets including telecom companies, or health insurance companies leading to a privatisation of the NHS and the healthcare system in the UK becoming more like they have in the US. If the UK crash out of the EU with no trade deal, the US will swallow them up.

    I don't think Trump cares about the UK-EU relationship, and I don't think he's being encouraged by anyone to help sow discord in that relationship. I think he's just purely focused on the optics of it and what he might be able to announce where he can shout JOBS! into a microphone repeatedly regardless of how true it is (which given the loss of jobs announced yesterday, likely isn't going to be true).


  • #9340
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,833 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    This article is an interesting take on the latest developments



    Pure hypothesis of course , but an interesting theory none the less.

    I did ponder the same, especially given that Trump submitted his responses to Muller's investigation very recently. Too soon to tell yet though.


  • #9341
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    And on the 'caravan'. Sure Trump is correct that every country should have a immigration policy, and the means to enforce it.

    But, there is no need for him to demonise every person, to criminalise them in the eyes of all Americans and to stoke fear into people. This will spread from just those in the Caravan to all foreigners (there is little doubt that some Americans will confuse naturalised Mexicans with thse people and act accordingly).

    Is this caravan a major threat to the US? Of course not. The most powerful country in the world is currently having kittens because a few thousand unarmed south Americans are walking, slowly towards them. So scared that the army needed to be sent to protect America from this threat.

    Americans are armed to the teeth yet appear to be the most scared people on the planet


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  • #9342
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,157 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Jesus - when even Geraldo is telling you that you are out of line, does that not cause you to take a breath and get some perspective?



    https://twitter.com/jiveDurkey/status/1067193821786767365

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9343
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Geraldo seems to be slowly realising just what he has signed up to.

    It has all fine and dandy having a pop at Obama and calling out the left, but if the price of winning is what Trump has brought then maybe it wasn't worth it. This is not thte first time Geraldo has had a cut off Trump.


  • #9344
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    HDMI wrote: »
    You are supposed to claim asylum in the first country you enter...

    No matter how often that bare-faced lie is repeated, whether by people who know it's untrue or people who just want to believe it, it's still a bare-faced lie.

    It's not true in Europe, and it's not true anywhere.


  • #9345
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Sassygirl1999 wrote: »
    link to truth please?

    https://cms.emergency.unhcr.org/documents/11982/55726/Convention+relating+to+the+Status+of+Refugees+%28signed+28+July+1951%2C+entered+into+force+22+April+1954%29+189+UNTS+150+and+Protocol+relating+to+the+Status+of+Refugees+%28signed+31+January+1967%2C+entered+into+force+4+October+1967%29+606+UNTS+267/0bf3248a-cfa8-4a60-864d-65cdfece1d47


  • #9346
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    We used to have this thread stickied


  • #9347
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Trumpton on the Brexit/trade stuff is just parroting a primer from his best English friend - Nigel Farrage.


  • #9348
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    and I want a Rolls Royce , doesn't mean I'm going to get one. They might want a better life, but that doesn't mean they get free passage into the USA to get one. It certainly doesn't mean they can illegally gain entrance to the US.

    Funnily enough, if 'the wall' was built, no kids would have been tear gassed.

    Teargassing into another country is illegal and a de facto Act of War.
    Refugees have two options: present themselves at the border for asylum, or enter illegally and and present at the first available port of call. This is why people rush.
    You will also note that Trump has offered detained refugees the return of their children if they agree to voluntarily deport themselves. This is kidnap.

    Trump is a coward. He is treating these people like this because he knows they are in a vulnerable situation and he thinks he can get away with this.


  • #9349
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,755 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Sassygirl1999 wrote: »
    No mention of first country but the ecj have their own rules
    The thread referenced by Baron de Charlus should clear that up for you.


  • #9350
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    everlast75 wrote: »
    Jesus - when even Geraldo is telling you that you are out of line, does that not cause you to take a breath and get some perspective?



    https://twitter.com/jiveDurkey/status/1067193821786767365


    Not the first time Geraldo has been outspoken against the immigration policies. He went ballistic on Hannity over the child detentions.


  • #9351
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭circadian


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    We used to have this thread stickied

    Would mods be open to making it a sticky again? In the current political climate this is very much a topic that is front and centre and it would be nice if this could be cleared up and referenced to so we don't have the immigration rules merry-go-round.


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  • #9352
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    seamus wrote: »
    I see Donnie throwing his oar into the EU/UK withdrawal agreement too.

    So we know a few things;

    1. He hasn't and won't read the WA
    2. He hasn't and won't listen to someone else summarise the WA
    3. Any "trade deal" between the UK and US is hot air, it doesn't exist.

    So the only rational conclusion here is that someone else has told him to speak negatively about the WA. Probably because no WA means less stability in Europe.

    I wonder who could want a less stable Europe....? Perhaps someone who is trying to annex some European countries...
    If the UK rejects a trade deal with the EU then the US will have them over a barrel. They will dictate food standards to the UK and you can bet as much as you like that Rees Mogg and Garage won't go running around shouting about sovereignty then either.


  • #9353
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Sassygirl1999 wrote: »
    No mention of first country but the ecj have their own rules

    Your turn. If you're going to claim the "first country" thing is true, link please.


  • #9354
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Christy42 wrote: »
    If the UK rejects a trade deal with the EU then the US will have them over a barrel. They will dictate food standards to the UK and you can bet as much as you like that Rees Mogg and Garage won't go running around shouting about sovereignty then either.

    Part of me wants the UK to crash out without a deal, just so the hardcore Brexiteers will be forced to publicly eat their words.
    Instead of an effigy of Guy Fawkes, they should burn Nigel Farage.


  • #9355
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,093 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Part of me wants the UK to crash out without a deal, just so the hardcore Brexiteers will be forced to publicly eat their words.
    Instead of an effigy of Guy Fawkes, they should burn Nigel Farage.

    They will never eat their words.

    They will blame the sitting government for not negotiating treaties correctly.
    They will blame the EU for badmouthing them to other countries.
    They will blame US/China/India etc for not being reasonable.
    They will blame manufacturer's for chasing profits by moving abroad.
    They will blame the public for complaining when they are the ones who voted for it.
    They will blame global events and that everyone is going through hard times.
    They will say nothing because they will have got their Brexit and will fade away as they always intended.


  • #9356
    Gbear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Tell me how wrote: »
    They will never eat their words.

    They will blame the sitting government for not negotiating treaties correctly.
    They will blame the EU for badmouthing them to other countries.
    They will blame US/China/India etc for not being reasonable.
    They will blame manufacturer's for chasing profits by moving abroad.
    They will blame the public for complaining when they are the ones who voted for it.
    They will blame global events and that everyone is going through hard times.
    They will say nothing because they will have got their Brexit and will fade away as they always intended.

    "Even when it was the bears, I knew it was the immigants!"

    Will Trump take the blame for blue collar workers losing their jobs due to steel tariffs? Will he own the deficit he paid for with tax cuts when he starts implementing austerity measures to balance the books?

    No. Whether through ignorance or malice, these people have set their stall out against reality and cannot afford a backwards step. They're like Wile E Coyote running in the air. They can only keep going so long as they don't look down.


  • #9357
    Rjd2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,272 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    "If it's a choice between honouring our obligations under the Geneva Conventions, or teargassing children... sorry kids."

    It's one thing that that's official US policy now - after all, the commander in chief is a narcissistic sociopath, so sociopathic policy is about what you'd expect. What's truly appalling is that people will cheerlead his sociopathy, and wonder why that bothers normal people.

    Its been a policy for years tbh, especially in the Obama years but nobody gave a flying **** then because they were caught in his cult of personality.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

    People are free to criticise Trump over this as they should as its vile, but if you were not calling out Obama for it back in the day, then they really should sit this one out.


  • #9358
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Its been a policy for years tbh, especially in the Obama years but nobody gave a flying **** then because they were caught in his cult of personality.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

    People are free to criticise Trump over this as they should, but if you were not calling out Obama for it back in the day, then they really should sit this one out.

    Can't imagine Obama allowing kids to be tear-gassed or locked up in cages.


  • #9359
    everlast75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,157 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Its been a policy for years tbh, especially in the Obama years but nobody gave a flying **** then because they were caught in his cult of personality.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/26/obama-administration-used-tear-gas-border-once-mon/

    People are free to criticise Trump over this as they should as its vile, but if you were not calling out Obama for it back in the day, then they really should sit this one out.

    I'm happy to hear all info, and I would be 100% happy to call Obama out on it if they are the facts, but can you elaborate please..

    1) Did the Admin under Obama close the legal port of entry first?
    2) Were there women and children part of the people upon whom the TG was fired?

    I think they are the issues people have with Trump.

    BTW - I've searched 7 pages of google and can only find reference to your statement on right wing sites, including breitbart. Can you provide other sources?

    PS - cult of personality? Obama? really? You are saying that in this administration!?

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • #9360
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    NEW: Manafort Met Assange in Ecudorian Embassy Spring '16.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/27/manafort-held-secret-talks-with-assange-in-ecuadorian-embassy

    EDIT "well-developed conspiracy of cooperation between [the Trump campaign] and the Russian leadership was managed on the Trump side by the Republican candidate's campaign manager, Paul Manafort" Steele Dossier


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  • #9361
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,007 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Gbear wrote: »
    Will Trump take the blame for blue collar workers losing their jobs due to steel tariffs? Will he own the deficit he paid for with tax cuts when he starts implementing austerity measures to balance the books?


    Of course he wont because by the time such action is required the Dems will be back in power once again having to make the hard decisions and republicans will blame them for the problems just just like they have everytime they've done this before.


This discussion has been closed.
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