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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

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Comments

  • #6362
    Anthracite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Anthracite


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Corbin hates the EU. Simple as. He wants out too
    The nightmare scenario is that he wants out and reckons that a crash-out Brexit can be blamed on the Tories for decades to come.


  • #6363
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,312 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    He would be right. A crash out would be entirely the fault of the Tories.

    But, a lot of people will remember just how craven Corbyn was during this period and how they put absolutely no pressure on May to pull them back from the brink and avoid disaster.

    If the UK crash out, the Tories are finished, but Labour will be deeply wounded.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #6364
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Akrasia wrote: »
    He would be right. A crash out would be entirely the fault of the Tories.

    But, a lot of people will remember just how craven Corbyn was during this period and how they put absolutely no pressure on May to pull them back from the brink and avoid disaster.

    If the UK crash out, the Tories are finished, but Labour will be deeply wounded.

    They have the advantage of being in opposition though. "Labour opened the floodgates" and "Labour overspent" will soon be replaced with similar aphorisms about the Conservative party. Corbyn knows this. All he has to do is to wait.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #6365
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭Infini


    Anthracite wrote: »
    The nightmare scenario is that he wants out and reckons that a crash-out Brexit can be blamed on the Tories for decades to come.

    Which would be foolish since he would quickly come under fire for being utterly inept and unwilling to do his job because hes a closet Brexiteer.


  • #6366
    S.M.B.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,383 ✭✭✭S.M.B.


    If there was a GE tomorrow I'd genuinely have no idea who I'd vote for which is depressing.


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  • #6367
    First Up
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Hurrache wrote: »
    First Up wrote: »
    Its the only deal they will get.

    I know, that's my point.
    "Best" implies there are others. There aren't.


  • #6368
    cml387
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭cml387


    Did anyone read the Sunday Times magazine today?
    Interesting piece about Seamus Milne, the power behind Corbyn.

    He seems to have a stranglehold on Labour. He put it in the ear of Labour politicians not to go to the People's march a few weeks ago.

    His support for Putin during the Ukrainian crisis and the annexation of Crimea when he worked for the Guardian led to a huge row in their offices.

    Shortly after Corbyn was elected he took "Leave of absence" from the Guardian and his job there remains open.

    Now I don't normally hold to conspiracy theories but there are far too many threads leading back to Russia for this not to look like a very murky set of circumstances.


  • #6369
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Water John wrote: »
    It's hard to identify which is The Monster Raving Lunatic Party.
    Who is the woman in orange ?
    https://pics.me.me/guardian-politics-gdnpolitics-12h-v-not-sure-how-to-explain-22538929.png


  • #6370
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They have the advantage of being in opposition though. "Labour opened the floodgates" and "Labour overspent" will soon be replaced with similar aphorisms about the Conservative party. Corbyn knows this. All he has to do is to wait.
    UK national debt has shot up under the Tories. Despite all the cutbacks and austerity.

    https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_analysis


  • #6371
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    LeinsterDub wrote:
    Corbin hates the EU. Simple as. He wants out too

    Yeah, cuz the EU is neoliberal capitalist conspiracy. While the hard right insist it's a Communist/Socialist/neomarxist conspiracy. :)

    EU is a universal unicorn, whatever you want it to be - the EU serves as a scapegoat for all populists and charlatans.


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  • #6372
    Rhineshark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Rhineshark


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    UK national debt has shot up under the Tories. Despite all the cutbacks and austerity.

    https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_analysis

    Huh. What was it that they'd nearly cleared by the austerity program? I thought it was the debt but maybe it was just one part of it.


  • #6373
    RobMc59
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    They have the advantage of being in opposition though. "Labour opened the floodgates" and "Labour overspent" will soon be replaced with similar aphorisms about the Conservative party. Corbyn knows this. All he has to do is to wait.

    Don't you think that if Corbyn at least showed the country what he's thinking-at the moment it does look like he's sitting like a spider waiting to pounce and his motives are being questioned-is he doing it for the good of the people or his own ends?


  • #6374
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Don't you think that if Corbyn at least showed the country what he's thinking-at the moment it does look like he's sitting like a spider waiting to pounce and his motives are being questioned-is he doing it for the good of the people or his own ends?

    He's obviously convinced that his ideology is for the common good but yes, he is doing it because it will get him into power.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #6375
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    In my work, we're seeing direct consequences of Brexit. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and a lot of the products that we release would be manufactured outside the EU. EU regulations state that these products must be tested by a registered EU lab (with the exception of countries like Australia and Switzerland where mutual recognition agreements are in place).
    We have a good few contract labs across the EU that carry out this testing for us. But the lab we use most often is in the UK. They're an extremely reliable lab and we give them the guts of £1 million per year as payment (more if you include our sister companies that also use them). They employ around 30-40 people and are very good at what they do.

    But now, through no fault of their own, we have to pull out of this lab and move to those in EU countries. It's likely that this lab will go out of business or, at the very least, have to lay off the majority of their workforce as a direct result of Brexit. This is because, at this point, we will not be able to release products to EU markets based on this lab's testing as they will no longer be in the EU and no MRA will be in place. Dozens of jobs probably gone as a direct result of Brexit. I feel extremely sorry for them but there really is no alternative.


  • #6376
    demfad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Just an update on Brexit-Russia-Trump which may yet play a role:


  • #6377
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,095 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    In my work, we're seeing direct consequences of Brexit. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and a lot of the products that we release would be manufactured outside the EU. EU regulations state that these products must be tested by a registered EU lab (with the exception of countries like Australia and Switzerland where mutual recognition agreements are in place).
    We have a good few contract labs across the EU that carry out this testing for us. But the lab we use most often is in the UK. They're an extremely reliable lab and we give them the guts of £1 million per year as payment (more if you include our sister companies that also use them). They employ around 30-40 people and are very good at what they do.

    But now, through no fault of their own, we have to pull out of this lab and move to those in EU countries. It's likely that this lab will go out of business or, at the very least, have to lay off the majority of their workforce as a direct result of Brexit. This is because, at this point, we will not be able to release products to EU markets based on this lab's testing as they will no longer be in the EU and no MRA will be in place. Dozens of jobs probably gone as a direct result of Brexit. I feel extremely sorry for them but there really is no alternative.

    Real world impact right there.
    I'm sure this wasn't something which happened overnight.

    What did this company try to do to allay fears? Did they approach ye to discuss potential implications or have ye had any discussions and are instead just starting to divert the work elsewhere?


  • #6378
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,997 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    demfad wrote: »
    Just an update on Brexit-Russia-Trump which may yet play a role:


    Thank you for the list, that story on Farage seems like it should be out of a novel than real life. Either he and those he hangs out with are just unlucky when they happened to meet coincidentally with the Russians or the Russian Embassy, or they are knee deep in subversion of democracy at the hands of Russia. I see way too many meetings that would mean a coincidence for them to stick to that claim.


  • #6379
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Boris Johnson is facing accusations of hypocrisy after a letter leaked to The Times revealed that he gave his reluctant blessing to checks on trade between Great Britain and Northern Ireland while he was foreign secretary.

    It comes after he flaunted his unionist credentials in an address to the DUP conference, suggesting that such checks would be unconscionable.


    Remember BoJo the Unionist from the weekend? Well him and BoJo the brexiter are having a bit of a disagreement. Let's hope BoJo the remainder from 2016 doesn't turn up too.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-boris-johnson-voiced-support-for-checks-at-irish-border-p5wr239ks


  • #6380
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Real world impact right there.
    I'm sure this wasn't something which happened overnight.

    What did this company try to do to allay fears? Did they approach ye to discuss potential implications or have ye had any discussions and are instead just starting to divert the work elsewhere?

    What could they do? it's out of their hands. They will no longer have the regulatory approval to test products for the EU market without mutual recognition in place..

    Short of moving the lab to Ireland - they were torpedoed in the short term.

    Unless mutual recognition can be sorted by Brexit day? But again that's dice rolling for any customer of this company.


  • #6381
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,095 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What could they do? it's out of their hands. They will no longer have the regulatory approval to test products for the EU market without mutual recognition in place..

    Short of moving the lab to Ireland - they were torpedoed in the short term.

    Unless mutual recognition can be sorted by Brexit day? But again that's dice rolling for any customer of this company.

    I'm quite sure they didn't just sit on their hands and succumb to their fate.....

    End result may have been the same but I expect they at least tried to explore what the future might hold over the last few months.

    I'm curious about that.


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  • #6382
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What could they do? it's out of their hands. They will no longer have the regulatory approval to test products for the EU market without mutual recognition in place..

    Short of moving the lab to Ireland - they were torpedoed in the short term.

    Unless mutual recognition can be sorted by Brexit day? But again that's dice rolling for any customer of this company.

    Why isn't this company going to every paper in the country?

    I just do not get British industry. They're sitting in relative silence while this stuff is going on around them. I'm actually surprised that they're that passive. Either they're living in magic unicorn land and think that everything's going to be fine or they're afraid to speak in case they get backlash.

    Can you imagine if the Government here did something that had this kind of negative impact here? There'd be absolute outrage on Joe Duffy and elsewhere about job losses and how the policy is destroying their export contracts. You'd have articles in every paper and all over the media and the various industry bodies would absolutely not sit there in silence as their market access was pulled up from under them.

    It looks like the 'project fear' chants worked to silence any criticism.


  • #6383
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Why isn't this company going to every paper in the country?

    I just do not get British industry. They're sitting in relative silence while this stuff is going on around them. I'm actually surprised that they're that passive. Either they're living in magic unicorn land and think that everything's going to be fine or they're afraid to speak in case they get backlash.

    Can you imagine if the Government here did something that had this kind of negative impact here? There'd be absolute outrage on Joe Duffy and elsewhere about job losses and how the policy is destroying their export contracts.

    It looks like the 'project fear' chants worked to silence any criticism.

    I actually saw something on BBC news a while back about a company involved in either medical device testing or pharma product testing that was warning about this exact problem..

    Fairly sure that they were based in Wales somewhere.


  • #6384
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I actually saw something on BBC news a while back about a company involved in either medical device testing or pharma product testing that was warning about this exact problem..

    Fairly sure that they were based in Wales somewhere.

    The problem though at this stage is that it's already too late for that kind of stuff. The business community absolutely failed to challenge this in any meaningful way and they're clearly out of the loop when it comes to lobbying as they've had no impact.

    I'm starting to see reports beginning to mention the words 'politically unstable' in reference to the UK which is really dire for FDI and even domestic companies' expansion plans.


  • #6385
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,095 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    The problem though at this stage is that it's already too late for that kind of stuff. The business community absolutely failed to challenge this in any meaningful way and they're clearly out of the loop when it comes to lobbying as they've had no impact.

    I'm starting to see reports beginning to mention the words 'politically unstable' in reference to the UK which is really dire for FDI and even domestic companies' expansion plans.

    Is there a risk that companies in Ireland have been equally lethargic in adequately preparing for a bad deal/no deal scenario?

    It doesn't affect me directly as such but I wonder just how far have companies who could be significantly impacted by Brexit gone to game theory the potential impact and consider their strategy?

    Has everyone subconsciously just expected that a deal would be reached?


  • #6386
    McGiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,492 ✭✭✭McGiver


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    He's obviously convinced that his ideology is for the common good but yes, he is doing it because it will get him into power.
    The ideology is OK and is perfectly deliverable within the EU framework. It's in fact nothing else than Social Democracy. The problem is that the UK is so much on the right and free market side with unions decimated and no compromise/dialogue between workers and employers in organised manner, that anything from their point of view is seen as "socialist".

    Not sure why Corbyn doesn't like the EU. After all the Socialists are the second largest group in the EP. Barosso? Former communist then socialist.

    1920px-G8_leaders_watching_football.jpg
    G8 folks watching soccer match.

    But the hard-left may say that Barosso'd been corrupted by the dark globalist forces and is no more a socialist :)


  • #6387
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,777 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    McGiver wrote: »
    The ideology is OK and is perfectly deliverable within the EU framework. It's in fact nothing else than Social Democracy. The problem is that the UK is so much on the right and free market side with unions decimated and no compromise/dialogue between workers and employers in organised manner, that anything from their point of view is seen as "socialist".

    Not sure why Corbyn doesn't like the EU. After all the Socialists are the second largest group in the EP. Barosso? Former communist then socialist.

    1920px-G8_leaders_watching_football.jpg

    But the hard-left may say that he's corrupted by the dark globalist forces :)

    what's going on there? what's the back story to that gathering?

    could either be a football match or a successful carpet bombing of somewhere in the middle east..


  • #6388
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Real world impact right there.
    I'm sure this wasn't something which happened overnight.

    What did this company try to do to allay fears? Did they approach ye to discuss potential implications or have ye had any discussions and are instead just starting to divert the work elsewhere?
    As lawred said, a lot of it was out of their hands. They did look into the possibility of moving to another EU country and setting up shop there, but I think they decided against it. At the moment, I believe that they are going to try and downsize and deal with only UK based pharma companies. Whether that will be enough for the company to survive, we'll have to see. There is a chance that there may be an agreement in place by March next year but because these lab transfers take so long and given the sheer number of them in this case, a lot of the damage will already have been done to this company by then. For us, if we don't complete all transfers from this lab by March and there's no agreement in place, then we legally cannot release product to the EU using this lab.


  • #6389
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    lawred2 wrote: »
    McGiver wrote: »
    The ideology is OK and is perfectly deliverable within the EU framework. It's in fact nothing else than Social Democracy. The problem is that the UK is so much on the right and free market side with unions decimated and no compromise/dialogue between workers and employers in organised manner, that anything from their point of view is seen as "socialist".

    Not sure why Corbyn doesn't like the EU. After all the Socialists are the second largest group in the EP. Barosso? Former communist then socialist.

    1920px-G8_leaders_watching_football.jpg

    But the hard-left may say that he's corrupted by the dark globalist forces :)

    what's going on there? what's the back story to that gathering?

    could either be a football match or a successful carpet bombing of somewhere in the middle east..

    Wasn't that the infamous Bin Laden photo?


  • #6390
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    McGiver wrote: »
    The ideology is OK and is perfectly deliverable within the EU framework. It's in fact nothing else than Social Democracy. The problem is that the UK is so much on the right and free market side with unions decimated and no compromise/dialogue between workers and employers in organised manner, that anything from their point of view is seen as "socialist".

    The ideology might be perfectly deliverable within the EU framework but Corbyn is a Eurosceptic who's continually voted against it. I don't want to go off topic but the media here, such as it is has portrayed him as hard left and some of his advisers like Seumas Milne and John McDonnell are definintely hard left with the latter saying that he was on a mission to "Smash Capitalism".

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #6391
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    It appears roughly 300 UK nationals will receive Irish citizenship in a ceremony in Killarney today:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2018/1126/1013338-citizenship-ceremony/


This discussion has been closed.
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