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Should the British Museum give back artefacts Britain took from other cultures?

13

Comments

  • #62
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Hopefully it's just the Brits because the hilarity level of every thread consistently hits the roof once the poppy-pushing, statue-erecting, remember-our-dead-forget-everybody-else's-dead, Empire-glorifying, warmongering, Brexit-supporting lulas feel the greatness of Britain is being undermined (which is increasingly always these days). Brexit is exposing a veritable psychosis in the English.

    Continue.

    I am Scottish born not English btw.. And its also hilarious when the knuckle dragging "up the ra" crowd come on these threads to inform us of their selective take on history.


  • #63
    VeryTerry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭VeryTerry


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I am Scottish born not English btw.. And its also hilarious when the knuckle dragging "up the ra" crowd come on these threads to inform us of their selective take on history.

    In fairness he started his rant addressing the Brits. He only got selective at the end.


  • #64
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Who intercepted the French slave boats in the Caribbean and set the slaves free? The Royal Navy. Try reading a real history book or have a wee Google for further examples.

    The French slavery trade ended a decade after the British. In total it wasn’t as large as the British. Literally the only people in the world who know about the Royal Navy intercepting ships live in Britain or are from there.
    The fact remains that most ex British territories are civilised and developed.

    Not at all. Of course the fix is in here because of Kenya or Zimbabwe are basket cases it’s because the British left, if the French ex colonies are in trouble it’s because the French went in.
    Look at South America and the former French colonies. They are still hacking the feck out each other and are 30 years or more behind the rest of the world.

    South America is fairly successful. Middle income. Not sure what French colonies you are talking about.


  • #65
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I am Scottish born not English btw.. And its also hilarious when the knuckle dragging "up the ra" crowd come on these threads to inform us of their selective take on history.

    The north British unionists tend to be the most vocal of british nationalists.


  • #66
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    The French slavery trade ended a decade after the British. In total it wasn’t as large as the British. Literally the only people in the world who know about the Royal Navy intercepting ships live in Britain or are from there.
    .

    France might have stopped shipping them themselves but were more than happy to accept slaves shipped in by the Spanish. Google the Louisiana purchase.

    If you don't know what goes on in South America I suggest you read it up. Complete lawlessness.

    And North Brits have to be loud to be heard over the Scottish cybernazis. Btw we are just British. Not British nationalist. We are not racist skinheads.


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  • #67
    VeryTerry
    Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭VeryTerry


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    And North Brits have to be loud to be heard over the Scottish cybernazis. Btw we are just British. Not British nationalist. We are not racist skinheads.

    Out of interest what brought you to Ireland? Do you feel Irish in any way living here or do you still think its more important to be a loud North Brit?

    I'm an ex pat myself but I wouldn't be having a go at the natives in the country I live in calling them knuckledraggers and such.


  • #68
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    VeryTerry wrote: »
    Out of interest what brought you to Ireland? Do you feel Irish in any way living here or do you still think its more important to be a loud North Brit?

    I'm an ex pat myself but I wouldn't be having a go at the natives in the country I live in calling them knuckledraggers and such.

    Only some are knuckle draggers.

    My mums side of the family is from the North originally and met my Irish OH over there. It was easier for me to move to Dublin than for them to move to Scotland. 17 years together now!

    I have worked with people that have spat at me (he was a unionist, fired and is for another thread!!), and have been called all the names under the sun. Me saying I am a Scottish born Brit is no different to someone saying they are a Sligo born Irishman.


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    The French were 100 times worse than Britain ever was.

    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I suppose we'll have an academic source to support this standard British nationalist "We were the good empire" line?

    Academic sources? Pigs will fly.
    prinzeugen wrote: »
    I have better things to do with my time than google **** for you.

    In fairness to you, Prinz, you never, ever disappoint.


  • #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    The fact remains that most ex British territories are civilised and developed.

    You're doing an exemplary job in putting the great back into Great Britain right there. In 2018 Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, Uganda, Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, South Africa and Zimbabwe - to take some of many - are an absolute honour to the glories of your "civilising".

    In a list of the most spectacularly barbaric states of this planet in 2018 Saudi Arabia alone is missing as an official colony; it was only a mere imperial 'protectorate' designed to give British military and financial support to the beautifully, eh, "civilised" House of Saud in their rise to power. A very well done to you all.


  • #71
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Deleted User wrote: »
    In fairness to you, Prinz, you never, ever disappoint.

    If a post was put on here like “Irish setter bites man on hand” I would give it 5 posts before you would be on here blaming the British and possibly Cromwell. Entertainable enough to laugh at but predictable as a ra quote at an ard fheis.


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  • #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    timthumbni wrote: »
    If a post was put on here like “Irish setter bites man on hand” I would give it 5 posts before you would be on here blaming the British and possibly Cromwell. Entertainable enough to laugh at but predictable as a ra quote at an ard fheis.

    Try and keep focused, Timothy. If you can support his claim step up to the plate and do so. Otherwise go back to the leaba, or have a strong coffee at least.


  • #73
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Out of interest does Dublin have a museum and if so does it have any artifacts that are from outside the ancient island of Ireland?


  • #74
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,252 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    I

    What should Ireland give back?

    The 26 counties would be a start. :D


    I'll get my coat ;)


  • #75
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Try and keep focused, Timothy. If you can support his claim step up to the plate and do so. Otherwise go back to the leaba, or have a strong coffee at least.

    That the French were worse than the British? I would agree with him actually but very Subjective obviously. My point is that some on here would try to blame the dastardly brits on wee cousin seamus getting abused by father o’feely from the local parish rather than taking the responsibility themselves.

    The republic has been independent now for the guts of 100 years. Time to stop blaming the brits and take responsibility for your own actions.


  • #76
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Out of interest does Dublin have a museum and if so does it have any artifacts that are from outside the ancient island of Ireland?




    The natural history museum is full of stuffed creatures from foriegn climes - 'Shot by Colonel Smythe-Dickerington in....'. It's essentially a victorian museum still extant, afaik.


  • #77
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I think it depends on whether the country of origin actually wants the artifacts back for genuine reasons and not just as an FU to Britain which is what I suspect is why the OP and others would want them forced into returning artifacts.

    And of course if the British Museum are to be forced into it then so should all others including our own.


  • #78
    Zorya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    And what about (;) ) all the castles here built by Anglo-Norman and English baw-stards...if we just had to depend on the Gaelic castles the tourists would be a lot less impressed.


  • #79
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It seems an open and shut case. Have the Brits any counter argument?


  • #80
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    France might have stopped shipping them themselves but were more than happy to accept slaves shipped in by the Spanish. Google the Louisiana purchase.

    If you don't know what goes on in South America I suggest you read it up. Complete lawlessness.

    And North Brits have to be loud to be heard over the Scottish cybernazis. Btw we are just British. Not British nationalist. We are not racist skinheads.


    The Louisiana purchase, which I already know about, was the sale of that territory to the US. Not seeing the relevance. It was a bad day for the native Americans and black population through.

    South America has lawless areas and places that are as safe as North America, like Argentina

    You are a british nationalist. In that your loyalty is to the british nation or state and that part of your identity is stronger than your Scots identity, to the extent you don’t want to want to be run by a Scottish state and you prefer the present arrangement. Both positions are nationalistic but neither are necessarily very strong nationalisms. Most believers in either are civic nationalists.

    In your case though you are a fairly strong defender of the British empire so I would rate you as fairly strong British nationalist.


  • #81
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    The Irish would have to hand back their whole civilisation if they were consistent withing thinking the British museum artifacts should be returned to other countries.
    Who's getting ready to ape the traditional British Christmas ina months time? Thank you very much Victorians. Mince Pie? Dont mind if I do.


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  • #82
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Odhinn wrote: »
    The natural history museum is full of stuffed creatures from foriegn climes - 'Shot by Colonel Smythe-Dickerington in....'. It's essentially a victorian museum still extant, afaik.

    And have you any plans to return these stuffed creatures shot by the dastardly brits? I mean I assume that it’s in Dublin and as such is now your own responsibility. Or is that too much to expect?


  • #83
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Our lab in England has lost 400k due to Brexit already (Horizon 2020 funds). I don't think the Tories are going to adeqautely fund museums, labs and other cultural attractions in the sh1t show that is going to be brexit. I have a feeling a lot of other countries are going to be using their leverage to take back control of their artefacts so to speak.


  • #84
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    If every country that took something from somewhere else was compelled to return them you can be sure a lot of items would just disappear for good into dubious private collections or be quietly sold on to raise funds for the day the revolution comes and some despot or other has to leave for France (it's so often France) rather quickly.

    What should Ireland give back?
    Ah sure your right,why would you go to the bother of invading terrorising, murdering, enslaving and stealing from the savages just to turn around and give it back to them, sure they wouldn't know what to do with them.


  • #85
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    timthumbni wrote: »
    And have you any plans to return these stuffed creatures shot by the dastardly brits? I mean I assume that it’s in Dublin and as such is now your own responsibility. Or is that too much to expect?




    ..a rather silly non-sequitur.


  • #86
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The Irish would have to hand back their whole civilisation if they were consistent withing thinking the British museum artifacts should be returned to other countries.
    Who's getting ready to ape the traditional British Christmas ina months time? Thank you very much Victorians. Mince Pie? Dont mind if I do.

    You are really bad at trolling.


  • #87
    tipptom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,219 ✭✭✭tipptom


    Folkstonian wrote: »
    I love the british museum. I remember being taken as a child and being absolutely bowled over by the size, age and incredible craftsmanship of statues and monuments on display

    Any visit to the British museum is an invaluable learning experience for young people and given that it has five or six million guests each year, I think it’s sparking a lifelong love and sense of intrigue in millions of young minds, and it would be a terrible pity and to the detriment of future generations if items in their collection were slowly lost

    Plus the argument that in the British museum these things are well cared for, expertly maintained and safe for future generations does hold a fair bit of merit for me in an increasingly unstable and volatile world. These are humanity’s treasures, and the history of all of us, and it’s incumbent on the whole world to protect that history

    And further to that, and judging by some of the responses already this won’t go down well, but the Rosetta Stone, or Cleopatra’s needle, or a Moai from Easter island, the reality is that they are in Britain, France or Europe because they became a part of our European colonial history.
    They tell the tales of expedition to unknown parts of the world, of colonies far away from home, of how society viewed itself and the world in the Victorian era etc, and that too deserves to be remembered and preserved

    Ill be over for your car and your family hand me downs later.
    Promise they will be well serviced,looked after and bring young people around to look and admire my handiwork and pass them on to kids later.


  • #88
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Odhinn wrote: »
    ..a rather silly non-sequitur.

    I will take that as a “no” then.


  • #89
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Our lab in England has lost 400k due to Brexit already (Horizon 2020 funds). I don't think the Tories are going to adeqautely fund museums, labs and other cultural attractions in the sh1t show that is going to be brexit. I have a feeling a lot of other countries are going to be using their leverage to take back control of their artefacts so to speak.

    I have heard a lot of hysterical arguments put forward as to the UK leaving the EU country club. However other countries using it to take back control of museum artifacts is possibly one of the most hysterical yet. Congratulations. ;-)


  • #90
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,051 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    timthumbni wrote: »
    I will take that as a “no” then.




    Anywhere that wants their dead stuffed animals should be free to have them. There is no comparison whatsoever with the grecian marbles etc however.


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  • #91
    timthumbni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Anywhere that wants their dead stuffed animals should be free to have them. There is no comparison whatsoever with the grecian marbles etc however.

    I would like to think they are dead, saying as they are stuffed...


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