Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

JJJJNR wrote: »

Yup just like Amazon. Com almost went in the dotcom bust. There are plenty of projects that have running applications in infrastructure and services. There are too many devs in blockchain for it to not work. Over 75% of newly registered github repos were related to blockchain before Microsoft bought it. That's why Microsoft bought github they see it coming, in 10 to 15 years every app on your phone will have blockchain tech. You will have a blockchain, boards.ie will be running off blockchain.

Amazon survived the dot com bubble, they also sell stuff that people buy, lastly they were the best at doing what they do. Is bitcoin the best crypto? If not what is? Why should I invest in any coin bar speculation?

I’ll never care about blockchain neither will 99% of punters, the failure to realize this is the crypto fans weakness. Like I don’t care about a lot of the hidden systems and infrastructure that help the whole internet to run.

Comparing blockchain to the internet is crazy, not even close.

I can book a flight, transfer money, connect with someone on the other side of the world, send an instant email etc blockchain doesn’t do a whole heap for average joe or jane

smacl wrote: »

How about comparing it to Arpanet?

That's nuts. ARPANET was a completely new technology that led to the internet as a whole. Blockchain is a new way of storing and distributing data. That's all, it might change the way some industries do some things but it's not going to cause a technological revolution like the world wide web

breadmond wrote: »

That's nuts. ARPANET was a completely new technology that led to the internet as a whole.

But arpanet did nothing for you or Tallyrand back then, right? Did nothing for the 'ordinary joe'? Yet, it led to something that affected everyone ultimately - many, many years later.

breadmond wrote: »

Blockchain is a new way of storing and distributing data. That's all, it might change the way some industries do some things but it's not going to cause a technological revolution like the world wide web

Well, that's your view. I think there's enough info out there for people to figure it out - so if that's the view you've reached, fair enough. However, I don't share that opinion.

If we just take the fact that in the not too distant future we will be using cryptocurrency (whether thats central bank crypto or decentralized, it's crypto that will have brought that about), that in itself is hugely significant. How we interact when it comes to money is a cornerstone of society.

TallyRand wrote: »

It’s bit disingenuous to say nobody is asking me to invest

I dont see that. I've come back with that answer where people have posed it as a question. i.e. Question: Why should I 'invest' in crypto? My Answer: Nobody is asking you to - i.e. don't if you've reached the conclusion it's not worthy.

TallyRand wrote: »

or make it out like this is a new tech forum and nothing to with speculating.

I've never suggested that there isn't a high level of speculation at play with crypto right now. However, I think it's instructive to consider the actual tech itself - especially when people make the point that they wouldnt invest on the basis that the tech is underwhelming.

TallyRand wrote: »

but we can’t all pretend this is a sub culture to protect and promote “the tech” because we all here believe deeply in the idea of some ledger for supply chain logistics.

I don't follow...?? See above - the discussion of what is being invested in is kind of intertwined with the decision to invest - whether that be short term speculation or those that believe in taking a longer term view.

TallyRand wrote: »

I think crypto coins have lost the retail punter hearts and minds.

Thats the general idea - so that the established money can take full control.

TallyRand wrote: »

Most people think the whole thing is a scam

i've had to do this umpteen times but here we go again. Go look up the definition of a scam. A scam has to be perpetrated by someone. Please tell me if crypto is a scam, who is it being perpetrated by?

TallyRand wrote: »

I don’t remember that attitude prevalent in the early internet days......there might have been ignorance but not disdain

I dont think it matters what adjective you use to describe it. Bottom line is that internet was this scary new thing...the home of criminals and pedo's . now has anything else been accused of that?:p

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Fees are paid just to buy it are ridiculous especially considering it was set up as a counter Coulter type thing to stop the banks making fees and commission on exchange rates.

I only pay 15c for SEPA transfers, and no fees for buying, selling, or moving Bitcoin. Spending it usually only costs cents too (median is 0.315 USD at the moment), although I admit I haven't done this very often.

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I only pay 15c for SEPA transfers, and no fees for buying, selling, or moving Bitcoin. Spending it usually only costs cents too (median is 0.315 USD at the moment), although I admit I haven't done this very often.

On stellar, the example was given that 100's of millions were moved for the cost of a few cents.

makeorbrake wrote: »

On stellar, the example was given that 100's of millions were moved for the cost of a few cents.

$194m BTC was moved last month for 10c.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Absolutely. It hasn't. That doesn't mean to say that it can't. The space is developing by way of fluid innovation.


You mean the exchange fees or transaction fees? The latter is a consequence of a Bitcoin scaling issue. That is being tackled. Even if it doesn't overcome that, there are 2nd and 3rd gen projects which don't have this issue.
As regards centralised exchanges, fees are not such an issue but - because of bureaucratic red tape with regard to KYC and AML regulations - it's created a barrier to entry. Decentralised exchanges will emerge. The infrastructure/ecosystem will be built out further to make it easier for people to buy/store/spend, etc.



That's not the reason why it was set up but you're still right to flag that people worldwide have been raped (and continue to be) via the SWIFT wire transfer system. When that changes soon - you will have blockchain to thank for that (regardless of whether the solution involves blockchain or not).

As a complete replacement, today? Sure. Rome wasn't built in a day ...especially when you're talking about changing something as fundamental to society as how money is used.


Forex is more speculative and yet, I don't see people beating down on it like they do crypto. The same with day and swing trading.
As regards not using it and posts being hollow, I don't agree. Firstly, whilst it's a massive aspect of it, most crypto's are not related to money use cases - see list above.
Of those that are, people will use when they have the opportunity to do so. An entire ecosystem has to be developed first to make it more accessible and more user friendly for people. You couldnt access the internet until the infrastructure was put in place - similarly with broadband, mobile, etc.

i'd say it will go down a bit further before climbing back up. Anyone who thinks that crypto has died is as far out as a lighthouse.

What has anything like fluid innovation and best developers in the world got to do with the wild speculation and massive price swings?

The bitcoin punting is all anyone knows about generally speaking, it comes across to me that you think the whole speculation is merely a sideshow to the tech about to change the world.

Coin gambling is the main event for most not the sideshow. It’s why there is sickening amounts of electricity being used, it’s why all these mining companies have popped up, it’s why everything in and around crypto culture exists.

And regarding earlier reply that you don’t see any sense of scam anywhere? C’mon it’s scam city in crypto, more scams than “not scams”. A whole scam industry and manipulation exists purely for this side of crypto, to deny that would be naive on a grand scale.

TallyRand wrote: »

From my view crypto / bitcoin was
...
Crypto fans don’t seem to know what they’re defending / believing in

Why are you conflating all cryptos with Bitcoin?

grindle wrote: »

Why are you conflating all cryptos with Bitcoin?

Because everyone does, whether you like it or not. Bitcoin is crypto, perception is reality.

When bitcoin coughs all crypto gets a cold

TallyRand wrote: »

Because everyone does, whether you like it or not. Bitcoin is crypto, perception is reality.

When bitcoin coughs all crypto gets a cold

The price gets a cold, this doesn't matter over a longer term. For all the talk of us only giving a crap about prices it's the naysayers who don't bother researching what's going on within industries who keep banging on about the price.

Bitcoin is an early proof-of-concept which works as a fiat sponge. It relies on it's brand and people either being ideologically in-line with permissionless money or just praying that their money will inflate. This is wholly different to a system that's been set up as a digital oil (Ethereum) which performs valuable computations and execution of agreements between parties. Currently doesn't scale because it's not meant to right now - scaling is too far away for some who've over-exposed their finances to crypto and want it to boom so they can drop their bags, but it's coming very soon for industries who've been using legacy systems for decades.

TallyRand wrote: »

I’ll never care about blockchain neither will 99% of punters, the failure to realize this is the crypto fans weakness.

You fail to realise that we don't need 99% of punters to give a shít - maybe besides Bitcoin, which is basically a pointless money sponge nowadays. Bitcoin lives and dies by it's brand and the notion of money-go-up.
The blockchains that disrupt industries are by and large hosting back-end services on their platforms which won't need the average mong - who thinks everything is a scam because there's money to be made in it - to envision or burden themselves as crypto-buyers. We need business needs to be met and costs to be cut via utilising a platform we've placed our bet on. If a platform you've placed a bet on gets used on a wide scale you win, if not, you lose.

TallyRand wrote: »

I can book a flight, transfer money, connect with someone on the other side of the world, send an instant email etc blockchain doesn’t do a whole heap for average joe or jane

Whatever about the other two, these first two will by and large be some of the first things to transition to blockchain. The likelihood in 5-10 years of a bank or airline or tour operator not utilising a faster, cheaper, more secure and programmed/automated set of tasks currently necessary to push those things through seems borderline retarded to me.
If it can be automated, it will be. If it cuts costs, it will get used. If it speeds up lead times across many industries, it will get used.

You're confusing the ordinary punter being allowed to invest in a market without accreditation with us wanting every ordinary punter to take part. I mean... it inflates prices sooner than expected as 2017 showed, but it doesn't actually achieve much. I'd rather ordinary punters kept out of it, every ordinary punter who's spoken to me about it is the type to buy tops, sell bottoms and blame the market for his moves. No notion about or genuine interest the tech or any ideology behind it at all, they just want the money to grow for no reason like the InitiativeQ spammers.
Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Nobody has advised you to invest in any crypto. I advise you to keep on the track you're on and buy none of it.

TallyRand wrote: »

What has anything like fluid innovation and best developers in the world got to do with the wild speculation and massive price swings?

Are you seriously asking me that? People like yourself suggest that people are investing in nothing and the minute examples are given, you come out with this nonsense.

TallyRand wrote: »

The bitcoin punting is all anyone knows about generally speaking, it comes across to me that you think the whole speculation is merely a sideshow to the tech about to change the world.

For many that work on the tech day in day out, it's just a distraction. How is that difficult to understand?

TallyRand wrote: »

Coin gambling is the main event for most not the sideshow.

So you've identified that there are different stakeholders involved here - from people who speculate blindly, those more professionally, those involved directly with the tech, etc. So what??

TallyRand wrote: »

It’s why there is sickening amounts of electricity being used, it’s why all these mining companies have popped up, it’s why everything in and around crypto culture exists.

You're only getting pissy about electricity as you've taken a dislike to crypto. The point has already been addressed ad nauseum - i'm not going to go back over electricity usage here.

TallyRand wrote: »

And regarding earlier reply that you don’t see any sense of scam anywhere? C’mon it’s scam city in crypto, more scams than “not scams”. A whole scam industry and manipulation exists purely for this side of crypto, to deny that would be naive on a grand scale.

That is completely wrong! I asked you before to explain to me who has carried out this scam! WHO? Because by definition, someone has to. As regards manipulation, Wall Street are the masters of manipulation. Any manipulation being carried out in the crypto space - you can be sure that it's being carried out by those that have the other foot in wall street.

TallyRand wrote: »

From my view crypto / bitcoin was

1st) fcuk you central governments / banking and the “man”

2nd) institution and etfs are coming on board, we’re going to be rich

3rd) it’s all about blockchain tech

I’m not trying to attack you makeorbrake but that’s my view from the outside looking in

Crypto fans don’t seem to know what they’re defending / believing in

You're all over the shop with this. Where is the point exactly and how does it fit in this thread?
People have an interest in crypto and blockchain technology for different reasons. That's all there is to say on that. Somehow you find that wrong? I can't help you with that. I can only speak to what I believe in - and I believe in the potential of the tech - which has shown some cases of application already - with many imminent.

TallyRand wrote: »

But who cares really? It’s not like any of us have 194m to move and are worried about the fees.
Plus 194m of btc swings so wildly how much btc could 194m buy next week, next month next year?

Oh come on - you're not being one bit reasonable here. I can debate and discuss with anyone who has an open mind but that's competely lacking here. The ability of crypto to effect largescale transfers is hugely significant on the basis of what it currently costs for those movements. Just because you dont have this scale of money to move doesn't make it any less significant.

TallyRand wrote: »

Because everyone does, whether you like it or not. Bitcoin is crypto, perception is reality.

You know nothing about crypto if you believe that - nothing.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They are now saying that $3000 is the baseline. Only five days ago the baseline was to be $4000. The "experts" are literally making it up as they go along

Agreed. Say what you will about crypto and blockchain technologies, but this has been both hilarious and entertaining to follow.