'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:58PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I think you're just fond of the sound of your own tortured prose, to be honest.

On Your Bike, Roger !

And miss your pathetic hypocritical and unoriginal offerings?
Not a hope.
You're pure gold boi. A diamond glinting in the otherwise stygian darkness

Im here for the night.

23-11-2018 03:58PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Well who knows how the Irish would have operated by ourselves. Maybe the idea of women having a vote being an anathema even to Irish nationalists was due to the influence of centuries of British ways. In our own Brehon laws, women were very equal - "Women were entitled to enter all the same professions as men; they could be Druids, poets, physicians, lawgivers, teachers, warriors, leaders, even Queens." We Irish were always very enlightened before being invaded and very progressive post becoming a Republic.

yes, it is a well known fact the the High King of Ireland usually obtained his position by holding a referendum. None of this killing, raping, taking hostages and arranging marriages.

A good simple referendum, whilst reading poetry to the soothing sounds of a harp being plucked and the tap tap tapping of children doing an Irish jig.

Rory28 · 23-11-2018 03:59PM

Berserker wrote: »

Nope, I am saying that the Irish parliament of the day voted to merge with Britain. I'm talking about that decision and nothing more. I've cited the vote that took place that lead to that merge. Certain posters on this thread are saying that it was not a democratic decision. That is not correct.

democratic decision implies it is the will of the people. I completely disagree with your interpretation.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 04:00PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Speaking of whataboutery
Level 10 there....

You just rattled off a load of dead relatives to no end other than emotiveness.

I referenced an incident which reflects the complex nature of what you call 'vandalism'.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 04:02PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

And miss your pathetic hypocritical and unoriginal offerings?
Not a hope.
You're pure gold boi. A diamond glinting in the otherwise stygian darkness

Im here for the night.

So, a pure gold diamond then.

Yep, tortured prose it is.

James Brown · 23-11-2018 04:10PM

It's a shame the sculpture was vandalised. The only reasoning I can think of is the association any 'remembrance' has with the British Army using it for pro British propaganda which is not what it's, (remembrances) supposed to be about.
Politicians and royalty should do nothing but apologise to the public on behalf of the institutions they represent every November IMO.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 04:18PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You just rattled off a load of dead relatives to no end other than emotiveness.

I referenced an incident which reflects the complex nature of what you call 'vandalism'.

Ah heor, i let it go the first time, as i thought you'd made a mistake.
Alas, it appears you cant even keep up in a thread, so prolific is your posting of gibberish.
Go back and read the context.

Anyway
Simple question.
Do you condemn the vandalism?

Answer:
Yes, because....
Or
No, because...

AudreyHepburn · 23-11-2018 04:18PM

P_1 wrote: »

West Brit? Give over lad. Some of us realise it isn't 1988 anymore and look outwards rather than inwards. You should try it some time

Well said. I really wish people would let go of their anger and hatred and move into the 21st Century’. The occupation is over, the North is at peace for the most part. The British are no longer our enemies.

I think the biggest problem with this incident and with the remembrance events that have taken place recently is people’s unwillingness to see them for they are.

It’s not about glorifying war or celebrating the British Empire. It’s about remembering the millions of young men and boys who went to war, like my Great Grandfather who fought at Ypres in Belgium, and especially those who never came home.

Those who damaged the statue and those who condone it need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-11-2018 04:21PM

Berserker wrote: »

Nope, I am saying that the Irish parliament of the day voted to merge with Britain. I'm talking about that decision and nothing more. I've cited the vote that took place that lead to that merge. Certain posters on this thread are saying that it was not a democratic decision. That is not correct.

The Irish parliament was peopled by descendants of invaders, but of course you knew that.

animaal · 23-11-2018 04:21PM

_Brian wrote: »

Many great acts of opposition are done in secret, the demolition of
Nelsons column for example.

Some simpleton running around in the middle of the night with a tin of paint is a "great act of opposition"?

I remember playing Knock and Run as a child. Maybe I should be proud of my great strike for the revolution.

RandomName2 · 23-11-2018 04:30PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Irish parliament was peopled by descendants of invaders, but of course you knew that.

Actually you had a bit of a point until you ruined it with 'descendants of invaders'. Let's just call it undemocratic and leave it at that.

animaal wrote: »

Some simpleton running around in the middle of the night with a tin of paint is a "great act of opposition"?

I remember playing Knock and Run as a child. Maybe I should be proud of my great strike for the revolution.

In the same way that the Spire (the replacement for Nelson's column) was defaced with acid based graffiti a couple of years ago. Arseh0les don't need to have political motivation.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 04:32PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ah heor, i let it go the first time, as i thought you'd made a mistake.
Alas, it appears you cant even keep up in a thread, so prolific is your posting of gibberish.
Go back and read the context.

Well, the context is straightforward enough.

You brought your family into it. No need to do that, unless for emotive reasons.

Trouble is, it isn't a particularly unique picture you painted and many people who disagree with you could tell the same story as yours.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 04:42PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Anyway
Simple question.
Do you condemn the vandalism?

Answer:
Yes, because....
Or
No, because...

Forgot to deal with this.

I condemn this particular vandalism because it is private property that was loaned in good faith.

I respect private property.

But I'm not sorry that the boring 'we are mature now' narrative got a kicking.

And the nation has not been shamed.

No-one got hurt, relax.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 04:43PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, the context is straightforward enough.

You brought your family into it. No need to do that, unless for emotive reasons.

Trouble is, it isn't a particularly unique picture you painted and many people who disagree with you could tell the same story as yours.

Actually, no. I brought other people that fought in WW1.

And well entitled they are to their opinion. the difference is I'll respect their POV, not tell them they're doing it wrong, that they must do as i do.
Its rather presumptious and ignorant of the poster who purported to be some authority on how we cherish or otherwise remember those who fought in WWI.
I never claimed to be unique. As an Irish man, i know i'm not unique. Thus i dont try foist my view on others. That causes problems.

So we're left with the question...
Do you condemn the "vandalism", as you yourself call it?

Fair play, at least you condemn it. We can agree on that. The rest, we can agree to disagree. Its not something I'd be proud of though.

mick malones mauser · 23-11-2018 05:00PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well said. I really wish people would let go of their anger and hatred and move into the 21st Century’. The occupation is over, the North is at peace for the most part. The British are no longer our enemies.

I think the biggest problem with this incident and with the remembrance events that have taken place recently is people’s unwillingness to see them for they are.

It’s not about glorifying war or celebrating the British Empire. It’s about remembering the millions of young men and boys who went to war, like my Great Grandfather who fought at Ypres in Belgium, and especially those who never came home.

Those who damaged the statue and those who condone it need to take a good hard look at themselves.
Whats wrong with a white dove
Symbol of peace
Failing that a column listing the names of all the Generals and Politcians responsible for the slaughter with the words.....THESE EVIL MONSTERS SENT MILLIONS OF YOUNG BOYS AND MEN TO THEIR DEATHS....NEVER AGAIN.

James Brown · 23-11-2018 05:05PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well said. I really wish people would let go of their anger and hatred and move into the 21st Century’. The occupation is over, the North is at peace for the most part. The British are no longer our enemies.

I think the biggest problem with this incident and with the remembrance events that have taken place recently is people’s unwillingness to see them for they are.

It’s not about glorifying war or celebrating the British Empire. It’s about remembering the millions of young men and boys who went to war, like my Great Grandfather who fought at Ypres in Belgium, and especially those who never came home.

Those who damaged the statue and those who condone it need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 05:09PM

How about a statue of Lions being led by Donkeys ?

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 05:24PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.

I dont think going to see it, and reflecting on what its supposed to mean, the carnage and horrific waste of life that was WW1, obviates a desire to see the Brits out of NI, and a united Ireland. Its not in the least jingoistic IMO.

I think reflecting on the 1000s of Irish that fought and fell in the British army in WW1 doesnt mean you're paying respects to the British Army per se, and by doing do absolves them of their atrocities around the world. Many Irish dressed like this soldier died for many reasons, reasons they thought were the right ones, in a very different time.

Now if it was the Queens Guards and band, marching up and down O'Connell street blasting Rule Brittania and God Save the Queen, then i wouldnt condemn you for throwing a bit of paint. Or something else.

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

As a people, we showed incredible maturity in Croke Park when we played the English. Not forgetting our history, but willing to embrace the future.

23-11-2018 05:31PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

Nice.

Edgware · 23-11-2018 06:17PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

Well there is a statue for Nazi lover IRA Chief of Staff Russell in Fairview Park

James Brown · 23-11-2018 06:24PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I dont think going to see it, and reflecting on what its supposed to mean, the carnage and horrific waste of life that was WW1, obviates a desire to see the Brits out of NI, and a united Ireland. Its not in the least jingoistic IMO.

I think reflecting on the 1000s of Irish that fought and fell in the British army in WW1 doesnt mean you're paying respects to the British Army per se, and by doing do absolves them of their atrocities around the world. Many Irish dressed like this soldier died for many reasons, reasons they thought were the right ones, in a very different time.

Now if it was the Queens Guards and band, marching up and down O'Connell street blasting Rule Brittania and God Save the Queen, then i wouldnt condemn you for throwing a bit of paint. Or something else.

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

As a people, we showed incredible maturity in Croke Park when we played the English. Not forgetting our history, but willing to embrace the future.

Look, it's not about the British, it's about some using this remembrance to salute the very nefarious entities and people who brought on WWI. And sadly it is used for British military propaganda in some quarters. In fact it's often associated with the modern soldiers currently serving, which I find odd considering remembrance is about the fallen, lest we forget, never again and so on. Why current oil waring soldiery are even mentioned in the same breath just shows it gets used as propaganda. Not to say there shouldn't be a remembrance more a better policing on how it's used.
This let bygones be bygones pip pip is a nonsense. Used as a cap tip to our former oppressors and current occupiers. Again, sculpture good, remembrance good. The idea that it's all water under the bridge will be more believable when we've a sculpture of James Connolly in Hyde Park and the Queen laying a wreath for remembrance of all the IRA fallen. Because all this Hello magazine forgive and forget needs to go both ways no?

Folkstonian · 23-11-2018 06:26PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

How about a statue of Lions being led by Donkeys ?

This would be bad revisionism.

The general staff of the time did a fairly decent job of understanding, adapting and overcoming the challenges of war on a scale, and of a form, that Europe had never seen before.

Massive loss of life was always inevitable and doesn’t reflect an incompetence or callousness on the part of those leading the army

James Brown · 23-11-2018 06:27PM

Edgware wrote: »

Well there is a statue for Nazi lover IRA Chief of Staff Russell in Fairview Park

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Edgware · 23-11-2018 06:31PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Is that the De Valera that put Nazi spies in the Curragh while giving R.A.F. men spins to the border?
It breaks the poor Shinners hearts to realise how they are stuck in with the Nazis

whisky_galore · 23-11-2018 06:34PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

They can keep NI, an utter drain on resources, populated by some of the most abhorrent fruit loops of both persuasions.
It'd be better if it could be sawn off and floated away. Nice to visit, sure as **** wouldn't want to live there.

whisky_galore · 23-11-2018 06:36PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Explain how he was a Nazi lover?

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 06:42PM

Folkstonian wrote: »

This would be bad revisionism.

The general staff of the time did a fairly decent job of understanding, adapting and overcoming the challenges of war on a scale, and of a form, that Europe had never seen before.

Massive loss of life was always inevitable and doesn’t reflect an incompetence or callousness on the part of those leading the army

I was being tongue-in-cheek...

FrancieBrady · 23-11-2018 06:43PM

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Look, it's not about the British, it's about some using this remembrance to salute the very nefarious entities and people who brought on WWI. And sadly it is used for British military propaganda in some quarters. In fact it's often associated with the modern soldiers currently serving, which I find odd considering remembrance is about the fallen, lest we forget, never again and so on. Why current oil waring soldiery are even mentioned in the same breath just shows it gets used as propaganda. Not to say there shouldn't be a remembrance more a better policing on how it's used.
This let bygones be bygones pip pip is a nonsense. Used as a cap tip to our former oppressors and current occupiers. Again, sculpture good, remembrance good. The idea that it's all water under the bridge will be more believable when we've a sculpture of James Connolly in Hyde Park and the Queen laying a wreath for remembrance of all the IRA fallen. Because all this Hello magazine forgive and forget needs to go both ways no?

Very true ^

The absurdity is they did forget and continued forgetting and will continue into the future.

The myths about WW1 are sold because it is of paramount importance that this army is available and the public are deluded into thinking there is something 'honourable' in being a part of it.

Dying in a war/conflict is ignominious and wasteful and an admission that civility has lost out. It should never be honoured or glorified. Remembrance should always highlight the utter futility and waste and in the case of WW1 the criminal waste of life.
As Irish people we should be the most vocal in criticising it. But the hat doffers and empire lovers will not allow it.

mfceiling · 23-11-2018 07:07PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

If you had performed the basic courtesy of reading the thread from the beginning, you'd know that it represents a British soldier.

If you had the brains to read my post you'd see I clearly said that my wife told me it was commissioned by a lady to represent any soldier.

Obviously she was wrong and you were right ergo you win the Internet.

Your prize is a tin of red paint.

BBFAN · 23-11-2018 07:09PM

Conall Cernach wrote: »

A statue to a British soldier in the place of one of the key battlegrounds of the Easter Rising. Who thought it was a good idea to put it up there in the first place?

But it wasn't a British soldier though? You obviously didn't read up on this did you?

'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

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