'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

animaal · 23-11-2018 02:09PM

From this thread alone, I can see people making at least vaguely plausible arguments on either side of topics concerning:

WW1
1916 Rising
Imperialism
Conflict between Economic pressures and one's country

But whoever vandalised the sculpture doesn't have the brains to do that. The only way they think they can gain admiration is to sneak around at night with a tin of paint. I find it hard to muster hate for somebody so pathetic.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 02:10PM

mfceiling wrote: »

Was the statue meant to represent any soldier from any country who fought in WW1?

Wife told me that it was specifically commissioned by a lady to remember any soldier who died in the war.

If you had performed the basic courtesy of reading the thread from the beginning, you'd know that it represents a British soldier.

Mrsmum · 23-11-2018 02:20PM

Aegir wrote: »

You seem to think that democracy in 1800 was something that the Irish people were somehow missing out on.

Your definition of democracy must be very different from mine. I kinda thought it had to do with a government of the people and something about majority.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 02:21PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And a massive portion of the ‘British’ soldiers who went to war weren’t actually British.

Why are people so determined to ignore this and brush those men under the carpet?

It's a red herring.

I don't think anyone is trying to brush Tom Barry, James Connolly, or Jack White, or a host of others under the carpet.

It's just that their British Army service isn't what we cherish them for.

And probably not how they would wish to be remembered anyway.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 02:22PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yes yes, but not necessarily an 'English' Haunting Soldier. It could be English, Scottish, Welsh, or Irish.

So what ?

RandomName2 · 23-11-2018 02:31PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Your definition of democracy must be very different from mine. I kinda thought it had to do with a government of the people and something about majority.

Okay to explain what Aegir meant for you: the concept of democracy that you are talking about was not available at the time. The idea of women, for instance, having the vote would have been an anathema, including to Irish nationalists. People in general would have been aghast at commoners being parliamentarians. MPs specifically did not receive any income, partially to exclude anyone who wasn't landed.

I am hopeful that in the future people will be shocked by how little say the public today have over government policy.

klaaaz · 23-11-2018 02:32PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Oh ffs, this cretin. Yes, all Irish people who worked in the public and civil service at that time were serving the British Empire.

Some language attacking the poster. Have you laid a wreath at the statue? Simple question.
Today is "showing racism the red card today" and buildings will be lit up red to symbolise it. The red paint on the statue points certainly points to an antifa type perhaps protesting against the enslavement of the poor in WW1 to fight an imperial war.

RandomName2 · 23-11-2018 02:51PM

klaaaz wrote: »

Have you laid a wreath at the statue? Simple question.

By Jove I did, right before I made love to the statue under a giant Union Jack blanket while playing God Saves the Queen on loudspeakers and smearing myself in orange marmalade. Wasn't the most comfortable experience, but needs must for a unionist loyalist west-brit imperialist Redmonite Free-stater who reads the Indo/Daily mail!

23-11-2018 02:51PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wouldn't be my form of 'protest', but challenging the narrative that the hat doffers and empire apologists promulgate is always good.

House

Mrsmum · 23-11-2018 02:53PM

RandomName2 wrote: »

Okay to explain what Aegir meant for you: the concept of democracy that you are talking about was not available at the time. The idea of women, for instance, having the vote would have been an anathema, including to Irish nationalists. People in general would have been aghast at commoners being parliamentarians. MPs specifically did not receive any income, partially to exclude anyone who wasn't landed.

I am hopeful that in the future people will be shocked by how little say the public today have over government policy.

Well who knows how the Irish would have operated by ourselves. Maybe the idea of women having a vote being an anathema even to Irish nationalists was due to the influence of centuries of British ways. In our own Brehon laws, women were very equal - "Women were entitled to enter all the same professions as men; they could be Druids, poets, physicians, lawgivers, teachers, warriors, leaders, even Queens." We Irish were always very enlightened before being invaded and very progressive post becoming a Republic.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:02PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's a red herring.

I don't think anyone is trying to brush Tom Barry, James Connolly, or Jack White, or a host of others under the carpet.

It's just that their British Army service isn't what we cherish them for.

And probably not how they would wish to be remembered anyway.

Ive a grandfather fought in Flanders and lived.
Ive several grand uncles, that faught in various parts of North France. Some were from Manchester, some from various parts of Ireland. Some lived, some died. Some of the living went on to fight in the WoI, and after on both sides in the civil war. Some though had seem enough slaughter and wanted no more of warfare. The mother of one the granduncles that died in the Somme, helped hide weapons for Crossbarry.

So, o arbiter of sentiment, how should i remember them? In what capacity should i cherish them and their memory?

Up to now, i hadnt been looking through a myopic tinted glass, but as men of their time. that fought various battles for many reasons.

And as men that were brave enough to shoulder a rifle, or fix a baynotte, they were immeasurably braver than whatever calliw gobshïtë saw fit to throw paint over a metal statue in the dark of night, a statue built to honour the soldiers of WW1,dead and those alive who returned to uncertainty. Theres a reason its called "the haunting" and resembles a ghost.

Because thats all those cretins are. Gobshïtes that have embarrassed our nation. Republicans my hoop. Third bit scumbags.

RandomName2 · 23-11-2018 03:04PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

Well who knows how the Irish would have operated by ourselves. Maybe the idea of women having a vote being an anathema even to Irish nationalists was due to the influence of centuries of British ways. In our own Brehon laws, women were very equal - "Women were entitled to enter all the same professions as men; they could be Druids, poets, physicians, lawgivers, teachers, warriors, leaders, even Queens." We Irish were always very enlightened before being invaded and very progressive post becoming a Republic.

Invaded? You mean by the Normans?

Or are you talking about the English Civil War when Ireland declared for the King and got invaded by Parliament's Model Army?

Okay anyway: what countries had universal suffrage at the time? Anywhere in the world? Nope. Nowhere in the world.

Where in the world at the time could women vote? Landed women could vote in a limited fashion in Sweden at the time. That was it.

What were the first countries to introduce women's suffrage? UK colonies, like Pitcairn, South Australia, New Zealand, Isle of Man (I know that Isle of man has always been a crown protectorate, but you get the idea)

dermo888 · 23-11-2018 03:05PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The mentality of people "protesting" the statue versus this way of thinking-

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ... You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

Mustapha Kemal. If only we had his kind around today.

_Brian · 23-11-2018 03:08PM

animaal wrote: »

From this thread alone, I can see people making at least vaguely plausible arguments on either side of topics concerning:
WW1

1916 Rising

Imperialism

Conflict between Economic pressures and one's country

But whoever vandalised the sculpture doesn't have the brains to do that. The only way they think they can gain admiration is to sneak around at night with a tin of paint. I find it hard to muster hate for somebody so pathetic.

Many great acts of opposition are done in secret, the demolition of
Nelsons column for example.

Nobody knows the intention nor intellectual abilities of the person involved. However it suits a west Brit addenda to label them as some sort of knuckle dragging Neanderthal. Perhaps the red paint signifies the Irish blood spilt by the occupation forces the brits kept here for far too long, a stain that should never be forgotten.

RandomName2 · 23-11-2018 03:17PM

_Brian wrote: »

Perhaps the red paint signifies the Irish blood spilt by the occupation forces the brits kept here for far too long, a stain that should never be forgotten.

Or perhaps it symbolizes tomato ketchup and that we shouldn't be living in the past and need to ketchup.

P_1 · 23-11-2018 03:20PM

_Brian wrote: »

Many great acts of opposition are done in secret, the demolition of
Nelsons column for example.

Nobody knows the intention nor intellectual abilities of the person involved. However it suits a west Brit addenda to label them as some sort of knuckle dragging Neanderthal. Perhaps the red paint signifies the Irish blood spilt by the occupation forces the brits kept here for far too long, a stain that should never be forgotten.

West Brit? Give over lad. Some of us realise it isn't 1988 anymore and look outwards rather than inwards. You should try it some time

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:22PM

_Brian wrote: »

Many great acts of opposition are done in secret, the demolition of
Nelsons column for example.

Nobody knows the intention nor intellectual abilities of the person involved. However it suits a west Brit addenda to label them as some sort of knuckle dragging Neanderthal. Perhaps the red paint signifies the Irish blood spilt by the occupation forces the brits kept here for far too long, a stain that should never be forgotten.

"Great act of opposition"...
Up there with Vinegar Hill, the GPO and Bolands Mill, Crossbarry, Kilmichael...

I label them as gobshîtës.
& I'm about as far removed from a West Brit as can be. (Although I have voted FG, read the Irish Times the odd time, and enjoy a bit of Kevin Myers with a cup of tea.)

If a blow for Ireland they wanted to strike, they done the opposite. They've embarrassed the nation

mikhail · 23-11-2018 03:27PM

God, I hate that term, West Brit. Nationalism is so pathetically insecure in this country that it's defined in terms of what it's not rather than what it is.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 03:28PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ive a grandfather fought in Flanders and lived.
Ive several grand uncles, that faught in various parts of North France. Some were from Manchester, some from various parts of Ireland. Some lived, some died. Some of the living went on to fight in the WoI, and after on both sides in the civil war. Some though had seem enough slaughter and wanted no more of warfare. The mother of one the granduncles that died in the Somme, helped hide weapons for Crossbarry.

So, o arbiter of sentiment, how should i remember them? In what capacity should i cherish them and their memory?

Do you feel the need to be seen doing something mawkish in public to remember them, o arbiter of whataboutery ?

A bit indulgent, no ?

Up to now, i hadnt been looking through a myopic tinted glass, but as men of their time. that fought various battles for many reasons.

And as men that were brave enough to shoulder a rifle, or fix a baynotte, they were immeasurably braver than whatever calliw gobshïtë saw fit to throw paint over a metal statue in the dark of night, a statue built to honour the soldiers of WW1,dead and those alive who returned to uncertainty. Theres a reason its called "the haunting" and resembles a ghost.

There's no reason for it to have been placed where it was though.

It was put there knowing what would almost certainly happen.

Hardly very respectful to the brave boys that were brave enough to... etc etc

Because thats all those cretins are. Gobshïtes that have embarrassed our nation. Republicans my hoop. Third bit scumbags.

Like I said already, vandalism isn't my thing. I'm just completely unsurprised by it.

Berserker · 23-11-2018 03:30PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ludicrous.

As good as admitting that everything I've said is factually correct and you know it is but keep telling yourself that Ireland was invaded and forced in union.

_Brian wrote: »

We had long since been invaded and suppressed by the crown with land disenfranchised and gifted to English gentry.

No amount of selective quoting rigged events will negate the fact that we were invaded and rights to our country taken from us.

It doesn't become any less democratic because you don't agree with it. You can throw all the cliches around that you want, it was still a democratic decision. As for this 'we' business, are you sure that your family were even living on this island at that point?

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:33PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Do you feel the need to be seen doing something mawkish in public to remember them, o arbiter of whataboutery ?

A bit indulgent, no ?

There's no reason for it to have been placed where it was though. Quite provocative.

It was put there knowing what would almost certainly happen.

Hardly very respectful to the brave boys that were brave enough to... etc etc

Like I said already, vandalism isn't my thing. I'm just completely unsurprised by it.

Whataboutery? Indulgent?
Absolutely not.
Curious as to how i should "cherish" them. There seems to be some "expertise" here than can advise. Experts that purport to speak for nationalism, against the yoke of British imperialism etc.

At least you recognize it for what it is "vandalism".
Could you bring yourself to condemn it?.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 03:34PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"Great act of opposition"...
Up there with Vinegar Hill, the GPO and Bolands Mill, Crossbarry, Kilmichael...

I label them as gobshîtës.
& I'm about as far removed from a West Brit as can be. (Although I have voted FG, read the Irish Times the odd time, and enjoy a bit of Kevin Myers with a cup of tea.)

If a blow for Ireland they wanted to strike, they done the opposite. They've embarrassed the nation

Fascinating insight there, o-arbiter-of-what-embarrasses-the-nation.

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 03:38PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Whataboutery? Indulgent?
Absolutely not.
Curious as to how i should "cherish" them. There seems to be some "expertise" here than can advise. Experts that purport to speak for nationalism, against the yoke of British imperialism etc.

At least you recognize it for what it is "vandalism".
Could you bring yourself to condemn it?.

Vandalism is hardly an ambiguous term here, is it ?

I certainly don't feel the nation has been embarrassed.

As to your dead relatives, and mine... I think about him from time to time in a quiet way. Try it. It suffices.

But I wouldn't make a pilgrimage to a statue in some silly virtue-signalling way, no.

Rory28 · 23-11-2018 03:39PM

Berserker wrote: »

As good as admitting that everything I've said is factually correct and you know it is but keep telling yourself that Ireland was invaded and forced in union.

It doesn't become any less democratic because you don't agree with it. You can throw all the cliches around that you want, it was still a democratic decision. As for this 'we' business, are you sure that your family were even living on this island at that point?

Are you saying we voted for oppression? Is that what you are getting at?

The last few posts you have made in this thread seem to suggest we had a hand in keeping the Brits in power. Surely you are not sayin that.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:42PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Fascinating insight there, o-arbiter-of-what-embarrasses-the-nation.

Thanks , it was rather insighful wasnt it!
I didnt realise it would such resonance until now.

I think I've struck a nerve though.
Is someone trying desperately hard to be seen as "strong on the national.question", possibly because theyre about 95 years too late to the party, as many move on into the year 2019, not forgetting our past, but not blinding us...

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 03:44PM

I have to laugh at the 'brave boys shouldering a rifle' narrative.

As I thought about the 'vandalism' aspect, I remembered the defacing of Churchill's statue in 2000.

And what to do we find ?

It was done by an ex-soldier, who had served in Bosnia.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/may/08/mayday.world

Who's to say that some of those old boys if they could come back, wouldn't do the same ?

Berserker · 23-11-2018 03:46PM

Rory28 wrote: »

Are you saying we voted for oppression? Is that what you are getting at?

Nope, I am saying that the Irish parliament of the day voted to merge with Britain. I'm talking about that decision and nothing more. I've cited the vote that took place that lead to that merge. Certain posters on this thread are saying that it was not a democratic decision. That is not correct.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:50PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Vandalism is hardly an ambiguous term here, is it ?

I certainly don't feel the nation has been embarrassed.

As to your dead relatives, and mine... I think about him from time to time in a quiet way. Try it. It suffices.

But I wouldn't make a pilgrimage to a statue in some silly virtue-signalling way, no.

So... do you condemn it?

Re my relatives, ill cherish them my way, I'll speak to my kids of them, to remember them, neither to extol or condemn them, but remember them as young men of their time.

Make whatever pilgrimage you will. What ever floats your boat. I wont judge you.

But if you behave like a scumbag, irrespective of whatever flag you've draped yourself in, ill call it as i see it.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-11-2018 03:52PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I have to laugh at the 'brave boys shouldering a rifle' narrative.

As I thought about the 'vandalism' aspect, I remembered the defacing of Churchill's statue in 2000.

And what to do we find ?

It was done by an ex-soldier, who had served in Bosnia.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/may/08/mayday.world

Who's to say that some of those old boys if they could come back, wouldn't do the same ?

Speaking of whataboutery
Level 10 there....

Lefty Bicek · 23-11-2018 03:53PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

So... do you condemn it?

Re my relatives, ill cherish them my way, I'll speak to my kids of them, to remember them, neither to extol or condemn them, but remember them as young men of their time.

Make whatever pilgrimage you will. What ever floats your boat. I wont judge you.

But if you behave like a scumbag, irrespective of whatever flag you've draped yourself in, ill call it as i see it.

I think you're just fond of the sound of your own tortured prose, to be honest.

On Your Bike, Roger !

'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

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