Should the British Museum give back artefacts Britain took from other cultures?

steddyeddy · 23-11-2018 01:45PM #1

The Elgin marbles, the treasures of Egypt and the Easter island statues are housed in Britain away from their countries of origin. These cultural artefacts have significant spiritual meaning to the nations they belong to. I personally think they should take a plaster cast or any other sort of replication and give the originals back. Poll added for poster's opinions. Link from the Guardian.

The governor of Easter Island has tearfully begged the British Museum to return one of its famous statues, saying: “Give us a chance so he can come back.”

The museum has held the Hoa Hakananai’a – one of the most spiritually important of the Chilean island’s stone monoliths – for 150 years.

“My grandma, who passed away at almost 90 years, she never got the chance to see her ancestor,” said governor Tarita Alarcón Rapu after meeting officials from the British Museum, accompanied by Felipe Ward, Chile’s national assets minister.

'Moai are family': Easter Island people to head to London to request statue back

“I am almost half a century alive and this is my first time,” she added.

The four-tonne statue, or “moai”, is one of hundreds originally found on the island.

Each of the figures was considered to represent tribal leaders or deified ancestors.

It was an emotional moment for the indigenous Rapa Nui visitors when they saw the basalt statue, which for them, contains the spirit of their people.

“I believe that my children and their children also deserve the opportunity to touch, see and learn from him,” Rapu said, with tears in his eyes.

“We are just a body. You, the British people, have our soul,” she added.

Hoa Hakananai’a was taken without permission in 1868 by the British frigate HMS Topaze, captained by Richard Powell, and given to Queen Victoria

nullzero · 23-11-2018 01:46PM

Of course they should, but they won't.

Under His Eye · 23-11-2018 01:47PM

NO!

Yer Da sells Avon · 23-11-2018 01:48PM

Yes, and the occupied six, but sure what can you do?

Signore Fancy Pants · 23-11-2018 01:52PM

Finders keepers

Losers weepers.

Rhyme · 23-11-2018 02:08PM

If the countries that want their artefacts returned can keep them in as good a condition as Britain has been keeping them, then of course. If they would be returned only to go to shit, then no.

#controversial

Amirani · 23-11-2018 02:10PM

I think the town of Kells are still trying to get their book back from Trinity College.

Amirani · 23-11-2018 02:11PM

Rhyme wrote: »

If the countries that want their artefacts returned can keep them in as good a condition as Britain has been keeping them, then of course. If they would be returned only to go to shit, then no.

#controversial

Artifacts returned to Syria would've been blown up by ISIS most likely.

seamus · 23-11-2018 02:12PM

Rhyme wrote: »

If the countries that want their artefacts returned can keep them in as good a condition as Britain has been keeping them, then of course. If they would be returned only to go to shit, then no.

#controversial

This. If some national museum wants to keep them and display them and protect them, great.

If some theocracy wants to take them back and destroy them, piss off.

23-11-2018 02:14PM

should they?

probably yes.

should they *have to*?

probably no.

Auguste Comte · 23-11-2018 02:16PM

They stole them fare and square boss, sure why wouldn't they keep them, boss.

super_furry · 23-11-2018 02:19PM

That would mean that they might have to face up to their history and legacy of going around the world, invading countries, slaughtering innocents and stealing anything of value.

They still won’t acknowledge that the ‘glorious’ empire they keep barking back to was built on the back of slavery, they’re not going to give back what they stole.

IR1SH RANG3R · 23-11-2018 02:22PM

Amirani wrote: »

I think the town of Kells are still trying to get their book back from Trinity College.

Library fine must be MASSIVE at this stage!

JohnnyFlash · 23-11-2018 02:23PM

Yes. And the French should send back the Mona Lisa to Italy. And we should send back Caravaggio’s The Taking of Christ. And Chester Beatty wasn’t always ethical when buying his ancient books.

See how this would work?

FTA69 · 23-11-2018 02:23PM

It’s a great museum but it really is The Museum if Robbing C*nts. They also have the cheek to ask people to donate a fiver upon going in there, looool I would in my hole. Imperialist swine.

ELM327 · 23-11-2018 02:30PM

Only if they give back everything else they stole too. Like the six counties!

Potatoeman · 23-11-2018 02:31PM

super_furry wrote: »

That would mean that they might have to face up to their history and legacy of going around the world, invading countries, slaughtering innocents and stealing anything of value.

They still won’t acknowledge that the ‘glorious’ empire they keep barking back to was built on the back of slavery, they’re not going to give back what they stole.

How far back do you go? Are the Italians going to apologize for the Romans? People these days seem to try and view history through a modern mindset.

23-11-2018 02:38PM

Ok - I have the solutions:

We pool all the artefacts, money, etc. from all the countries in the world and split it all evenly per capita - then start from scratch, on an even playing field.

It could be interesting...

lalababa · 23-11-2018 02:43PM

The statue seems to be of a value to the Islanders that I would find hard to comprehend.
Something along the lines of siritual protectors to the Islanders, maybe as important to them as home rule is to us.Or the pope is to some catholics.BTW I know very little about it.
So it is a tough one.
Saw the statue on the news and I thought that those statues had away longer base going into the ground.

goose2005 · 23-11-2018 02:47PM

from reddit:

There are 887 Moai on Easter Island or in Museum collections.

There are 79 Moai in museums around the world.

Only a quarter were installed. About half are still in the quarry where they were made.

Most of the statues were toppled in the period 1770-1830 by the islanders themselves.

The Easter Island governor may have a good case, but stuff like "My grandma, who passed away at almost 90 years, she never got the chance to see her ancestor" is a bit disingenuous to say the least.

the modern Easter Islanders have very little in common with the culture that built the moai.

similarly, the modern Arab Republic of Egypt has no real connection to ancient Egypt, the people, the language, the religion, everything has changed since then.

s7ryf3925pivug · 23-11-2018 02:51PM

I think in the case described in the article it should be returned as it was attained by pillaging. Returning items from museums would have to be considered on a case by case basis though

seamus · 23-11-2018 02:59PM

From the above, it does sound like the statues themselves were something of a cultural tradition or a pride piece during a specific era on the island, which came to an end a long time ago, most likely after some cultural shift like a war or a natural disaster.

As said above, the modern inhabitants of the island have no more a spiritual or cultural connection with these items than a modern Italian does with the Romans who built the Colosseum.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-11-2018 03:00PM

Amirani wrote: »

Artifacts returned to Syria would've been blown up by ISIS most likely.

Not any more, the good guys won.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-11-2018 03:01PM

seamus wrote: »

From the above, it does sound like the statues themselves were something of a cultural tradition or a pride piece during a specific era on the island, which came to an end a long time ago, most likely after some cultural shift like a war or a natural disaster.

As said above, the modern inhabitants of the island have no more a spiritual or cultural connection with these items than a modern Italian does with the Romans who built the Colosseum.

?

Why wouldn’t a modern roman have those connections?

One eyed Jack · 23-11-2018 03:02PM

The British Museum are quite arrogant about it -

It is the first time that the British Museum, which holds cultural treasures from around the globe, has agreed to hold talks about the statue. But on Tuesday the museum was talking only of a loan, not the return, on the artefact.

“The museum is one of the world’s leading lenders and the trustees will always consider loan requests subject to usual conditions,” a spokeswoman said.

They took someone else’s property, claimed it as their own, and now want to “lend” their property back to it’s owners? Of course they should give it back. If you take something from someone, that doesn’t make it yours, no matter how well you take care of it and whether or not you think they won’t. It’s not your property, it’s theirs. What’s the point in property which is of significance to its owners being stored in a museum where it is of no significance to the people who took it? That’s literally stealing and being a dog in a manger about it.

Harry Palmr · 23-11-2018 03:06PM

If every country that took something from somewhere else was compelled to return them you can be sure a lot of items would just disappear for good into dubious private collections or be quietly sold on to raise funds for the day the revolution comes and some despot or other has to leave for France (it's so often France) rather quickly.

What should Ireland give back?

maccored · 23-11-2018 03:09PM

if they stole the artifacts then - like anyone else would be expected to - they should return them. It matters not who 'looks after' them best. Person A might look after property they stole from person B, but they have no right to do so. Same should apply to the Biritish

Zorya · 23-11-2018 03:10PM

FTA69 wrote: »

It’s a great museum but it really is The Museum if Robbing C*nts. They also have the cheek to ask people to donate a fiver upon going in there, looool I would in my hole. Imperialist swine.

That museum is astonishing, but yes one feels the displayed items have been pillaged. Mind you without the pillage many artefacts would have been lost. What was brought back from caves etc along the Silk Road, though robbed, would likely have been destroyed otherwise, as one example.

I find this hard to answer. Of course it was gathered unfairly but as a result has been meticulously preserved for posterity. Unlike the artefacts in Iraq or the huge Buddha statues or even the Dead Sea and other desert scrolls that were used sometimes as kindling. Really difficult to say. A lot of places don't yet have the facilities for disaster proof storage, for example.

23-11-2018 03:58PM

Potatoeman wrote: »

How far back do you go? Are the Italians going to apologize for the Romans? People these days seem to try and view history through a modern mindset.

romans mainly originated from a migrant tribe of greeks, so yknow even then its dodgy

kneemos · 23-11-2018 04:01PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Only if they give back everything else they stole too. Like the six counties!

They broke it, they can keep it.

steddyeddy · 23-11-2018 04:17PM

maccored wrote: »

if they stole the artifacts then - like anyone else would be expected to - they should return them. It matters not who 'looks after' them best. Person A might look after property they stole from person B, but they have no right to do so. Same should apply to the Biritish

Agreed. The attitude of "we'll look after them better so we'll take them and keep them" seems quite colonial. In history the British empire have applied the same logic to whole nations.

If however you subscribe to the idea of "we know better" than perhaps we should run Britain to save them from the self inflicted wound that is Brexit.

Should the British Museum give back artefacts Britain took from other cultures?

Should the British Museum give back artefacts Britain took from other cultures? 133 votes

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