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Monitored Home Alarm

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  • 15-06-2017 2:26pm
    #1
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I started shopping around this week for a monitored home alarm. I already talked to reps from Phonewatch, Homesecure, Securiguard and Network security. Just wanted to ask around here before believing any of these guys trying to sell their products. So I have few point that I would like to get some feedback on:

    - price and contract - so the contract duration is different for different providers from 12 to 36 months - is it better to have a longer contract and are price being increased a lot after the initial deal expires ? Im going to ask them anyway to drop the installation fee altogether for a longer contract, however is it better to for me to pay for the installation (as little as I manage to negotiate) and keep the contract short. We plan on a long term use of this anyway.

    - one of the reps in his pitch (which I really didnt like at all) was badmouthing all the other brands for using the water meters installers as contractors for fitting these alarms etc. But one thing he said was that all other companies dont hardwire the panel plus there is a delay for the front and back doors so if someone breaks in they just pull the panel out of the wall and dump it in the sink with water. Is it true, do I have to consider this at all or was it just his BS. Is the fact that there is a delay on front/back door good thing to have or better not to have it or have an option to switch it off ?

    - as I was told by pretty much all of these guys they recommend to put motion sensors rather than the window sensors. Some of these motion sensors will have cameras. Which is I guess fine if someone breaks in but Im bit concerned about privacy or perhaps the fact that these can be hacked etc. Should I just stay away from them completely or is it unnecessary for me to worry about this?

    - are the sensors ok to use during the night, when were asleep ?

    - as advised I will be going wireless, some of these systems (I think phonewatch) apart from mobile app have some key fobs to swipe rather than put the codes in. How does the panel access the internet or how will it communicate with my phone ? Do I need a simcard or wifi on all the time ?

    Anything else I should know of or consider ?

    Many thanks


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    #2
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    In my opinion you should avoid all those you have spoken with. Not one of them mentioned that their systems are locked to them and only them. So you will not be able to look for cheaper monitoring from another company Excluding Securigard as he uses Visonic systems which any company can take over.

    You need perimeter protection. Vibration sensors on your windows and doors to detect intrusion before entry backed up by a minimum of 2 PIR motion detectors.

    The PIR motion detection cameras are useful for confirming an intrusion.

    Check the PSA register for a list of installers.

    You'll pay more up front then what your were paying up front from the companies you have spoken with but the system will be yours and your be able to choose who looks after your system if you find you can get a better price for monitoring and maintenance.

    Have a look at the HKC systems. You'll find videos on YouTube and the even have a smartphone app that allows you to control your system remotely from anywhere. They work with every good monitoring station in the country


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    #3
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Id agree with Evolution1,
    Most of these company's will get you in with a system that is locked to them, with only serviceable by them also.

    Perimeter protection offers the best protection.
    With just a few PIRs installed an intruder is in your home before you even know it. In most cases some of these PIRs are off to allow you access around your home meaning little or no protection at night or when someone is home.

    www.altor.ie



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    #4
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭omri


    Ok so if I go with HKC alarm system will any monitoring company be able to utilise it in the future 3-5 years time?


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    #5
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    omri wrote: »
    Ok so if I go with HKC alarm system will any monitoring company be able to utilise it in the future 3-5 years time?

    HKC like most other systems installed can be connected to any monitoring station.

    www.altor.ie



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    #6
    Evolution1
    Registered Users Posts: 855 ✭✭✭Evolution1


    omri wrote: »
    Ok so if I go with HKC alarm system will any monitoring company be able to utilise it in the future 3-5 years time?

    Yes any company can take over HKC


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    #7
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭omri


    So after the research here and pricing out I decided to make a move after the weekend and will be going with homesecure, unless something changes over the weekend. They are using ZeroWire and monitoring is provided by Chubb. With large amount of installers and providers it will be the easiest for us to go with one of these phonewatch like companies and get everything in one go and hassle free. Any opinions here on homesecure/zerowire alarm and chubb monitoring service ?


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    #8
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭kub


    I just googled Zerowire, as I have never heard of it, being only a professional in this business 26 years.

    What is jumping out at me is, you will not have a live alarm box on your house.

    There is no mention of how many internal sirens there are on the system. There has to be 2 to comply with standards.

    I see you are limited to 7 detectors, have you asked how much possible extra units will cost?

    Paying € 32 a month on top of the installation cost is very saucy.

    I would strongly advise you to get your hands on the contract for this system and see what it says, study it.

    Has there been a Risk Assessment and a Site Survey been carried out on your home?
    Just standards say that these are necessary.


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    #9
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    omri wrote: »
    So after the research here and pricing out I decided to make a move after the weekend and will be going with homesecure, unless something changes over the weekend. They are using ZeroWire and monitoring is provided by Chubb. With large amount of installers and providers it will be the easiest for us to go with one of these phonewatch like companies and get everything in one go and hassle free. Any opinions here on homesecure/zerowire alarm and chubb monitoring service ?

    This does not sound like a great deal to me.
    Have you yet had anyone out to do a site survey and furnish you with a system design proposal.
    The same questions have to be asked.
    Are you tied into a contract for multiple years ?
    Do you own the system?
    Is the system locked down to this company?
    Can any other company take over this system if you want to shop around in the future?


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    #10
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    omri wrote: »
    So after the research here and pricing out I decided to make a move after the weekend and will be going with homesecure, unless something changes over the weekend. They are using ZeroWire and monitoring is provided by Chubb. With large amount of installers and providers it will be the easiest for us to go with one of these phonewatch like companies and get everything in one go and hassle free. Any opinions here on homesecure/zerowire alarm and chubb monitoring service ?

    Just so you know Zerowire is locked to Homesecure.
    I tried to get one of them systems to play around with but was told they are the only suppliers of that system.

    www.altor.ie



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    #11
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭kub


    altor wrote: »
    Just so you know Zerowire is locked to Homesecure.
    I tried to get one of them systems to play around with but was told they are the only suppliers of that system.

    In other words so if the OP has an issue with this installation company in the future, he / she cannot have anyone else work on that system.

    So if this was a car, it can only be brought from 1 garage, it can only be serviced at that garage and indeed only fueled at that garage.
    No one else can fix, fuel or service it.

    That cannot be too wise a move by a consumer.


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    #12
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    kub wrote: »
    In other words so if the OP has an issue with this installation company in the future, he / she cannot have anyone else work on that system.

    Correct, control panel is locked to Homesecure.

    www.altor.ie



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    #13
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭omri


    Hi there, thanks for all the input, definately food for thought.
    I just googled Zerowire, as I have never heard of it, being only a professional in this business 26 years.

    What is jumping out at me is, you will not have a live alarm box on your house.

    There is no mention of how many internal sirens there are on the system. There has to be 2 to comply with standards.

    I see you are limited to 7 detectors, have you asked how much possible extra units will cost?

    Paying € 32 a month on top of the installation cost is very saucy.

    That's strange because apparently this is the most popular alarm system in the US - accordingly to the sales rep. I'm assuming that if these big monitoring companies are operating in Ireland they do comply with standards (if there are any that are enforced by whatever body is overseeing this part of the market).

    The cost of additional detectors ranges between 50-85 per one throughout the companies I was talking to.

    In terms of monthly fees they range from 26-42 per month.

    Although I do appreciate all the advice I'm somewhat curious as to whose agenda should I believe. Is it the PW and the likes that provide a reasonably priced package that gets my house fitted with the alarm and monitored or independent alarm installers pushing the irish produce in form of a HKC brand at a higher initial investment but not necessarily an easier way of doing it from my point of view. There are multiple alarm brands, types etc. that to a person of my knowledge of the subject are all the same. And I do have to believe to whatever each sales rep will tell me. I might pay 300 for the new alarm and 30 per month and be locked to few year contract. Or spend few times more and still need a contract with a monitoring company and deal with few suppliers if alarm breaks etc rather than one if I went with homesecure etc.

    I've been UPCs/virgin customer for number of years now so I'm wondering if the case with monitored alarm wont be the same ?

    I understand that for people who are in this business there are many differences between brands/models and monitoring providers but these are not obvious to me.

    And even if HKC alarm will cost me say around 1000EUR plus monitoring for same period as with HS with cheaper provider at lets say 12EUR per month (if at all possible) thats the same amount that I'll have to pay if I went with homesecure (excluding any penalty/call out charges etc.).

    Answering another question - no I didn't have any surveys done. We have an alarm here but we never got it to work and its some kind of older unit I believe. We have 2 doors with sensors, 9 windows with sensors and one PIR sensor in the kitchen.

    From what I was told by HS rep the alarm they install can be taken over by other monitoring companies.


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    #14
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Got Securigard to fit a Visonic earlier in the year and fairly happy with it - range of sensors available is decent. Can be set to any monitoring company who'll take you or to contact you yourself.


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    #15
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Sales reps are always great at giving you statement's that are almost impossible to verify.
    I don't there is is much more we can say to you. If you think the PW style model is a good one do a search of this forum and see some of the posts from existing customers.


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    #16
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    L1011 wrote: »
    Got Securigard to fit a Visonic earlier in the year and fairly happy with it - range of sensors available is decent. Can be set to any monitoring company who'll take you or to contact you yourself.

    When you say range of sensors fitted I hope your not referring to contacts or curtain motions which they usually fit to windows?

    www.altor.ie



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    #17
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    omri wrote: »
    From what I was told by HS rep the alarm they install can be taken over by other monitoring companies.

    I've questions the reps also on this:

    They told me even if I left as a end user they would still look after the system.
    They told me the EN50131 cert they issues supersedes all EN50131 certs.
    They told me that because they are Homesecure they have have a priority over everyone.

    I can assure you all the above is bull.

    At the end if the day, It's you the end user makes the final decision. Sales reps are great when they want commission of a sale ��

    www.altor.ie



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    #18
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭kub


    I have to laugh at all that, easy knowing some rep came out with that rubbish, was this fellow selling for one of the utility companies a few weeks ago I wonder.


    Oh and I noticed you already have a system, I bet not one of the companies you spoke to even explored the possibility of updating that and saving you in the long run.


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    #19
    omri
    Registered Users Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭omri


    Hi all, thanks for all your feedback. And to clarify I'm looking at this subject from every possible angle, before I make the move. Few more things I'd be interested to get your opinions on:

    1) If I get the alarm installed independently from any of the big monitoring companies, how easy it is to get it monitored ? Does it have to be a special type of alarm that can be monitored or are all the panels fitted with necessary equipment? What is the best way of connecting my alarm to the monitoring company (do they do this for me, or do I need sim cards/internet etc.)?

    2) If the alarm is not provided by the monitoring company will there be any issues with responsibility that may affect insurance in case of a break in, i.e. the monitoring company says sorry it wasnt our alarm so weve no way to tell if it was working properly etc.

    3) Whats the usual warranty on the alarms and are they likely to fail over time ?

    4) How easy is it to switch the monitoring providers, will they have to validate alarm each year to see if its compatibile with their systems ?

    And yes there is an alarm here that came with the house but we never used it, I don't even remember the code or if it was changed to a new one. So I'm not even touching it and because presumably its an older unit (the only name/model I could find on the panel says Paradox) from what I was told, and some of the window sensors are giving errors etc. I just want it gone and get a new one in thats fully working.

    Any recommendations for the registered alarm installers in south co. dublin ?

    Thanks


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    #20
    mugsymugsy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭mugsymugsy


    My own two pence worth. Avoid the companies where you are tied in and only they can service it. As a business it's a great model as a consumer what happens if the rates rise or the company goes bust etc.

    I got a company to come and out alarm that used the existing old alarm wiring and added in some wireless detections and a new hkc panel has an app + SIM that pings + other person I have as a contact if the alarm ever goes off. I can check the app to see what zone and decide if to call the gardai. Sim card is like 6/7 euro a month so small I can't even remember.

    Take the advice of experienced people on here


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    #21
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭kub


    omri wrote:
    1) If I get the alarm installed independently from any of the big monitoring companies, how easy it is to get it monitored ? Does it have to be a special type of alarm that can be monitored or are all the panels fitted with necessary equipment? What is the best way of connecting my alarm to the monitoring company (do they do this for me, or do I need sim cards/internet etc.)?

    Any installer who is not part of a company that also provides monitoring can connect your system to any of the monitoring companies in this country.
    I have yet to come across one that refuses a connection, the installer only has to be PSA licensed.
    HKC, Vanderbilt, GSD, Risco, I could go on, but these are the most popular and HKC by a long shot can be connected to any alarm monitoring centre.
    Your installer will connect your system to the monitoring company, whether that is via landline or GSM etc, a Site Survey will determine this.

    omri wrote:
    2) If the alarm is not provided by the monitoring company will there be any issues with responsibility that may affect insurance in case of a break in, i.e. the monitoring company says sorry it wasnt our alarm so weve no way to tell if it was working properly etc.

    The installer has the first responsibility here and if everything is done according to standards you will not have any issues like that. The buck here usually stops and starts with the installer and there is a technical trail of events.

    omri wrote:
    3) Whats the usual warranty on the alarms and are they likely to fail over time ?

    That depends on what the installer offers you, could be 1 - 3 years. If a system is maintained properly it will last a long time, I have seen systems over 20 years old still running perfectly. That is not to say that components fail though, which they do and it is constant servicing and maintenance will keep the system in good order, just like a car.

    omri wrote:
    4) How easy is it to switch the monitoring providers, will they have to validate alarm each year to see if its compatibile with their systems ?

    It is very rear that someone requests that their system be moved from one monitoring company to another. All you have to do every few weeks with a prearranged call to your monitoring company is a test that they are getting the signals just for your own piece of mind, either way a lot of systems are set up to ping monitoring stations and indeed send in their own test calls and if these fail the monitoring company or your installer will inform you.


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    #22
    Nalz
    Registered Users Posts: 16,737 ✭✭✭✭Nalz


    Hi folks, haven't had time to read through this page yet, but very interested in setting up monitored alarm system on my gaff in Dublin 15. My old non monitored alarm is acting up, going off randomly. Dodgy sensor or my dogs might be setting it off.
    kub wrote: »
    Any installer who is not part of a company that also provides monitoring can connect your system to any of the monitoring companies in this country.
    I have yet to come across one that refuses a connection, the installer only has to be PSA licensed.
    HKC, Vanderbilt, GSD, Risco, I could go on, but these are the most popular and HKC by a long shot can be connected to any alarm monitoring centre.
    Your installer will connect your system to the monitoring company, whether that is via landline or GSM etc, a Site Survey will determine this.

    Quick question, again I haven't properly read this yet as I'm in work (apologies)....

    any of the above in bold a preference? I haven't heard of any of them. Thanks


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    #23
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,533 ✭✭✭kub


    Nalz wrote: »
    Hi folks, haven't had time to read through this page yet, but very interested in setting up monitored alarm system on my gaff in Dublin 15. My old non monitored alarm is acting up, going off randomly. Dodgy sensor or my dogs might be setting it off.



    Quick question, again I haven't properly read this yet as I'm in work (apologies)....

    any of the above in bold a preference? I haven't heard of any of them. Thanks

    If your system is activating it does not necessarily mean you have to upgrade the entire thing, maybe organise a service call from your supplier and let them route out the fault.
    Also you want it monitored, have you a perimeter system as it is?
    If so what make is your existing control panel.
    For domestic systems i would not look beyond HKC.


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    #24
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Nalz wrote: »
    Hi folks, haven't had time to read through this page yet, but very interested in setting up monitored alarm system on my gaff in Dublin 15. My old non monitored alarm is acting up, going off randomly. Dodgy sensor or my dogs might be setting it off.



    Quick question, again I haven't properly read this yet as I'm in work (apologies)....

    any of the above in bold a preference? I haven't heard of any of them. Thanks

    All the systems you list are compliant with EN50131-1 & can be monitored by all monitoring stations.After that its just down to your own personal choice or that of your installer (if you let them).
    Also , as said, look at the sensors re false alarms first.An upgrade won't solve these problems unless you are replacing everything.


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    #25
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭altor


    Nalz wrote: »
    Hi folks, haven't had time to read through this page yet, but very interested in setting up monitored alarm system on my gaff in Dublin 15. My old non monitored alarm is acting up, going off randomly. Dodgy sensor or my dogs might be setting it off.



    Quick question, again I haven't properly read this yet as I'm in work (apologies)....

    any of the above in bold a preference? I haven't heard of any of them. Thanks

    I also advise having the older system looked at.
    You would need to know what is activating the system.
    If it is the dogs then you could increase the sensitivity of the sensors on a zone to hopefully eradicate the problem of it been set off.

    www.altor.ie



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    #26
    gallagb
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭gallagb


    I would advise anyone getting a security alarm system in their house not to go with securigard. Have their alarm in my house as of 3 years and the alarm now beeps every two minutes because the backup battery is low. I tried to contact the company about it but you can only text them and even by following instructions and doing this I got nowhere. So I emailed their sales team, the only email contact available and told them by problem and gave out about them not being contactable by phone. The guy who owned the company rang me in a rage giving out to me about being rude in my email, refusing to listen to my qualm and actually intimidating me with his horrible tone. I tried to be calm but he got in a strop and hung up, then sending me a petty email calling me rude and cutting ties with account with them even though I was perfectly calm and polite and he was the one screaming at me down the phone. I have never been spoken to this way in my life and am really shook up by this aggressive completely unprofessional behaviour. Do not have anything to do with this company. Not only are they incompetent but the owner is crazy! Can anyone recommend a good alarm company that offer maintenance, thanks a mill! To end on a funny note, what an alarming situation! :P


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    #27
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Most good companies would be able to look after most systems .
    Is it a Visonic system?
    Where are you located?


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    #28
    mw2101
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭mw2101


    Hi, just cancelled phonewatch. Had one of their newer systems and obvousoly can't use it now as a stand alone alarm after I cancelled the monitoring. My own fault for not doing the research at the start.

    A quick qustion on both Phonelink and Network Security. If you cancel the monitoring, do you own these systems at the end of the contracted period or is it like Phonewatch where they can they can disable the alarm once the monitoring has been cancelled?


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    #29
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    mw2101 wrote: »
    Hi, just cancelled phonewatch. Had one of their newer systems and obvousoly can't use it now as a stand alone alarm after I cancelled the monitoring. My own fault for not doing the research at the start.

    A quick qustion on both Phonelink and Network Security. If you cancel the monitoring, do you own these systems at the end of the contracted period or is it like Phonewatch where they can they can disable the alarm once the monitoring has been cancelled?

    I'd avoid all the ones that are cheap up front and then lock you into contracts. They generally won't work without a contract.

    I'd go for an independently professionally installed system, using either HKC, Siemens/Vanderbilt or GSD. Will be a bit more expensive up front, but will be users to do what you want with it and likely cheaper in the long term.

    BTW HKC charge €70 per year for remote access and self monitoring, but even without that it will still work without the sub as a basic alarm (no alerts or remote control).

    Siemens/Vanderbilt offer free remote control and alerts.


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    #30
    mw2101
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭mw2101


    bk wrote: »
    I'd avoid all the ones that are cheap up front and then lock you into contracts. They generally won't work without a contract.

    I'd go for an independently professionally installed system, using either HKC, Siemens/Vanderbilt or GSD. Will be a bit more expensive up front, but will be users to do what you want with it and likely cheaper in the long term.

    BTW HKC charge €70 per year for remote access and self monitoring, but even without that it will still work without the sub as a basic alarm (no alerts or remote control).

    Siemens/Vanderbilt offer free remote control and alerts.

    The one thing with Phonelink is that it is a HKC alarm that they use therefore I would assume that at the end of the contract you would be free to move somewhere else or alternatively just operate the alarm on a stand alone non monitored basis?


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    #31
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    mw2101 wrote: »
    The one thing with Phonelink is that it is a HKC alarm that they use therefore I would assume that at the end of the contract you would be free to move somewhere else or alternatively just operate the alarm on a stand alone non monitored basis?

    It looks like they are heavily subsiding the price, so you would have to check what the contract says. Do you own it at the end of the contract or them? Any penalties for braking contract etc.?

    Assuming you own it after the contract, then normally with HKC systems, another installer can take it over to maintain it if needed. Without monitoring it should continue to work as a stand alone alarm. You could also get remote control and self monitoring with HKC for €70 or so per year.

    But important to double check what the contract says. And I'd look for one or two more quotes.


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