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Sexism you have personally experienced or have heard of? *READ POST 1*

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    #8642
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    No
    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    Anyone notice the difference in how murderers are treated on the basis of their gender? It seems we're conditioned to believe that men are the offenders and women are the victims, even when it is the female being charged with murder.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/tina-cahill-pleads-guilty-to-manslaughter-of-fianc%C3%A9-in-australia-1.3672656

    This woman in Australia had her murder downgraded to manslaughter as she was apparently suffering from PTSD due to her abusive partner.

    The article even has quotes from her parents saying they came over to support her and saying that she's doing ok. Seriously? Are we supposed to be feeling bad for her?

    I'm quite cynical about the abuse in these murder cases as it is the go to defence for female murderers. It's nearly always successful too so why wouldn't they try, it's her word against a dead mans. I was actually surprised Molly Martens was convicted of murdering Jason Corbett, one of the few cases I've noticed that the abusive husband defence didn't succeed.

    Another article has appeared in the news today relating to this story.
    The above woman had previously been convicted of recklessly wounding her partner 18 months before she killed him.

    "According to court documents, the couple were arguing loudly in their bedroom and the sound of something smashing was heard. Ms Jennings ran to the room and found Mr Walsh crying and his forehead bleeding profusely."

    It doesn't sound like he was the one abusing his partner and yet she was still able to get the murder downgraded to manslaughter on that basis :confused:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1031/1007954-cathrina-cahill/


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    #8643
    py2006
    Registered Users Posts: 9,847 ✭✭✭py2006


    They all (probably encouraged) to claim they were abused etc.


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    #8644
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    A former housemate has testified that she saw Cahill walk up the stairs with her hand behind her back, then suddenly stab Mr Walsh in the back of his head after the couple argued on October 3, 2015.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/i-hope-you-got-a-good-look-slut-tina-cahill-tells-court-of-repeated-violence-by-fiance-she-killed-37484730.html

    Reminds me of another case, this time in Ireland where a woman went upstairs with a knife and stabbed her partner to death:
    She went downstairs, picked up a steak knife and returned upstairs where she stabbed Peter. He was stabbed in the chest, back and in the legs. Caroline said in her statement that she was defending herself.
    She didn't even get a suspended sentence.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2000/0302/5856-comerford/


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    #8645
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    We discussed another Irish case previously where a woman got a suspended sentence for stabbing her brother to death with a knife wound through the chest.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64566921

    She claimed he had bullied her previously.

    However, as one poster pointed out, normally the only defence for killing someone is self defence which didn't seem to be the factor in that case.


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    #8646
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Lol female child suicide now as high as men and seems to be getting funding, and allot of concerns and something must be done. All said in the same sentence as it's as high as the male suicide but hey **** those guys.


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    #8647
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Lol female child suicide now as high as men and seems to be getting funding, and allot of concerns and something must be done. All said in the same sentence as it's as high as the male suicide but hey **** those guys.


    I tried to find what you are talking about: https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-highest-child-suicide-rate-among-girls-eu-new-report-finds-161643

    This was published today: https://www.nwci.ie/images/uploads/Out_of_Silence_Report_-_NWCI_-_2018.pdf


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    #8648
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I tried to find what you are talking about: https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-highest-child-suicide-rate-among-girls-eu-new-report-finds-161643

    This was published today: https://www.nwci.ie/images/uploads/Out_of_Silence_Report_-_NWCI_-_2018.pdf

    It was a newstalk conversation earlier today, which is where i heard it.


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    #8649
    Maxpfizer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 496 ✭✭Maxpfizer


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I tried to find what you are talking about: https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-highest-child-suicide-rate-among-girls-eu-new-report-finds-161643

    This was published today: https://www.nwci.ie/images/uploads/Out_of_Silence_Report_-_NWCI_-_2018.pdf

    Here's the thing that I don't get.

    NWCI said both genders suffer equally from mental illness but female sufferers have specific needs, experiences and contributing factors.

    Surely it follows from that that male sufferers must also have specific needs, experiences etc.

    Like, without getting into debates about binary vs non-binary, surely if women's mental illness needs are different from men's then BOTH men and women have "specific needs". WTF?

    ...it was clear from the women we spoke to that their mental health is impacted by the gender inequality they encounter...

    Riiiight.

    It's such a weird way to approach an issue. Divide the people experiencing the problem into different groups based on how they experience the issue.

    Then say "OK, we want to help this group here specifically, good luck to the rest of you".

    So apparently the rate of suicide among 10 to 14 year olds and 15 to 19 year olds is almost 3 times as high for boys.

    It's crazy when you think of it that the headline "Ireland has highest child suicide rate among girls in the EU" is not followed by even an acknowledgement that the child suicide rate among boys is 3 times higher than even that.

    What's the use in campaigning for gender equality when realistically you're willing to treat everyone differently based only on their gender.

    You can have a look here: https://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/


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    #8650
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Maxpfizer wrote: »
    Here's the thing that I don't get.

    NWCI said both genders suffer equally from mental illness but female sufferers have specific needs, experiences and contributing factors.

    Surely it follows from that that male sufferers must also have specific needs, experiences etc.

    Like, without getting into debates about binary vs non-binary, surely if women's mental illness needs are different from men's then BOTH men and women have "specific needs". WTF?

    ...it was clear from the women we spoke to that their mental health is impacted by the gender inequality they encounter...

    Riiiight.

    It's such a weird way to approach an issue. Divide the people experiencing the problem into different groups based on how they experience the issue.

    Then say "OK, we want to help this group here specifically, good luck to the rest of you".

    So apparently the rate of male suicide among 10 to 14 year olds and 15 to 19 year olds is almost 3 times as high for boys.

    It's crazy when you think of it that the headline "Ireland has highest child suicide rate among girls in the EU" is not followed by even an acknowledgement that the child suicide rate among boys is 3 times higher than even that.

    You can have a look here: https://www.nsrf.ie/statistics/suicide/

    To be fair this is a publication from the national womens council so they're obviously going to have a female centered message and viewpoint.

    The truth is that there do have to be different approaches to this based on age and gender, messaging aimed at combating suicidal ideas in teenage girls is going to be different to that aimed at teenage boys or adult men. It would equally be unacceptable to use the same campaign for teen boys and adult men because both groups will respond to different things and will have different triggers for this kind of thinking.

    If this was pieta house or console taking this approach I'd totally agree with you, their aim is to help everyone. The national womens council's objective is to spotlight issues affecting women.


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    #8651
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    Triceratops Ballet wrote: »
    The national womens council's objective is to spotlight issues affecting women.

    And don't you think the suicides of men affect the women they leave behind?

    The National Womens Council attitude to this is beneath contempt. (I'm writing this, by the way, as someone who's lost an aunt and a brother to suicide.)


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    #8652
    gizmo555
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,948 ✭✭✭gizmo555


    "More women than men attempt suicide, while men are more likely to die by suicide than women. The incidence of attempted suicide by females was 19% more than males."

    ... and the incidence of actual suicide by males was 393% more than females.


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    #8653
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Fcuk me. It really didn't hit home until I saw this graph.


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    #8654
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,846 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Can you spot what is wrong with this controversial hotel ad?

    https://www.oversixty.com.au/travel/travel-trouble/can-you-spot-what-is-wrong-with-this-controversial-hotel-ad

    Christ people go out of their way to be offended

    The hotel chain shouldn't have apologised

    That's a strange ad. It's not following the standard advertiser manual of acceptable gender stereotypes. The handsome man should have been struggling with a ghostwritten footballer biography over breakfast and herself should have been deep into "A Brief History of Time", or perhaps a little light reading from a college Quantum Mechanics textbook!:pac:


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    #8655
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭daithi7


    gizmo555 wrote: »
    And don't you think the suicides of men affect the women they leave behind?

    The National Womens Council attitude to this is beneath contempt. (I'm writing this, by the way, as someone who's lost an aunt and a brother to suicide.)

    I heard the conversation on newstalk and was appalled at what I heard too. The NWC were highlighting their case sure, but they were doing this at the implicit downgrading of priority that should be attached to male suicide statistics e.g. apparently (i.e. according to their own one eyed study) 'more teenage girls attempt suicide...., '

    So the implicit message here is society should focus more on young female mental health issues /��suicide prevention etc But as we all know, this request for more allocation of resources will come from that same pot that is allocated for male suicide /mental health issues. Therefore it was extremely disingenuous to highlight alleged higher female attempted suicides when the real figures show circa 4 times the number of male suicides actually occurs.

    It's not that female suicide isn't an issue, it's just that it is an issue that is clearly only 1/4 as urgent as male suicide. Of course that is if you believe both genders are equal, which the NWC clearly don't.

    They are a sexist, bigoted organisation who really showed their colours today on a topic that is so painful for men, women and families alike. Shame on them.


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    #8656
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    I remember a friend of mine when he was a non-consultant hospital doctor unprompted complaining about young females coming to A&E supposedly as suicide attempts, but only after taking one or two tablets, for example, so that there was no real risk of death. I believe it's called parasuicide.


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    #8657
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    daithi7 wrote: »
    I heard the conversation on newstalk and was appalled at what I heard too. The NWC were highlighting their case sure, but they were doing this at the implicit downgrading of priority that should be attached to male suicide statistics e.g. apparently (i.e. according to their own one eyed study) 'more teenage girls attempt suicide...., '

    So the implicit message here is society should focus more on young female mental health issues /��suicide prevention etc But as we all know, this request for more allocation of resources will come from that same pot that is allocated for male suicide /mental health issues. Therefore it was extremely disingenuous to highlight alleged higher female attempted suicides when the real figures show circa 4 times the number of male suicides actually occurs.

    It's not that female suicide isn't an issue, it's just that it is an issue that is clearly only 1/4 as urgent as male suicide. Of course that is if you believe both genders are equal, which the NWC clearly don't.

    They are a sexist, bigoted organisation who really showed their colours today on a topic that is so painful for men, women and families alike. Shame on them.


    That’s a load of crap tbh. There’s no “implicit downgrading of priority that should be attached to male suicide”. The only ”implicit downgrading” I’m seeing is your “it’s an issue that is clearly only 1/4 as urgent as male suicide”. The issue of women’s mental health is a priority for the National Women’s Council. Clue is in the name of the organisation.

    I don’t see anything they should be ashamed of in this report. They’re doing what they’re supposed to be doing - advocating for women. Your outrage on this one is misplaced. There are numerous organisations which advocate for both sexes in the area of mental health and suicide prevention, and the point the NWCI was making is that suicide prevention and mental health care for women needs a different approach to the approach taken with men. It’s one of the few times they’ve actually published something which I find myself in agreement with.


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    #8658
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭daithi7


    https://youtu.be/pWdd6_ZxX8c


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    #8659
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    daithi7 wrote: »
    I heard the conversation on newstalk and was appalled at what I heard too. The NWC were highlighting their case sure, but they were doing this at the implicit downgrading of priority that should be attached to male suicide statistics e.g. apparently (i.e. according to their own one eyed study) 'more teenage girls attempt suicide...., '

    So the implicit message here is society should focus more on young female mental health issues /��suicide prevention etc But as we all know, this request for more allocation of resources will come from that same pot that is allocated for male suicide /mental health issues. Therefore it was extremely disingenuous to highlight alleged higher female attempted suicides when the real figures show circa 4 times the number of male suicides actually occurs.

    It's not that female suicide isn't an issue, it's just that it is an issue that is clearly only 1/4 as urgent as male suicide. Of course that is if you believe both genders are equal, which the NWC clearly don't.

    They are a sexist, bigoted organisation who really showed their colours today on a topic that is so painful for men, women and families alike. Shame on them.

    Its ok to be sexist as long as against men :)


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    #8660
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    i saw this posted elsewhere, is there even an 50/50 chance you can read either gender into this or is it one way traffic :pac:

    Hi All,

    I hope everyone is well and doesn't mind me posting this on here.

    My name is Stephen Smith, a researcher currently working with a Maynooth-based research and training company called ICEP Europe.

    I write today seeking your assistance with the Irish data collection phase of our European Justice Programme funded Systematic Approaches For Equality of gendeR (SAFER) project, within which ICEP Europe is the Irish partner.

    The SAFER project, which is being conducted across 6 European countries (Ireland, UK, Cyprus, Greece, Italy & Lithuania) aims to:
    • Promote positive attitudes towards gender equality
    • Equip students with the skills required to form healthy, respectful relationships
    • Prevent gender-based discrimination and violence

    The objectives of SAFER align with those of the SPHE curriculum, as well as the guidelines for wellbeing within Irish primary schools. The project will incorporate social and emotional skills training, positive psychology and character education in an innovative suite of freely available, online training materials designed to educate teachers and pupils on gender equality, and raise awareness around gender-based discrimination and violence.

    As part of the research phase of the project, ICEP Europe is endeavouring to garner responses from 50 Irish primary school teachers to an online questionnaire, which pertains to teacher's attitudes towards gender equality and gender based violence.

    Given the timely and pertinent nature of the research at both a national & European context, we were hoping that many of you may be able to assist our research team in generating the requisite number of responses. Any assistance you could offer in this regard would be greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks for your time and consideration in reading this post, and should you be interested in participating in the the SAFER project research, please do not hesitate to get in touch with me at the following email address (s. smith @ icepe . eu) and I will happily provide you with a link to our online questionnaire.

    Wishing each of you a pleasant day!

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #8661
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,876 ✭✭✭iptba


    silverharp wrote: »
    i saw this posted elsewhere, is there even an 50/50 chance you can read either gender into this or is it one way traffic :pac:
    I’m no expert but don’t get the impression “gender-based violence” is generally used for violence by a female on a male. It may even be a way to talk about domestic violence and the like while ignoring this (and mutual violence/abuse).


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    #8662
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    iptba wrote: »
    I’m no expert but don’t get the impression “gender-based violence” is generally used for violence by a female on a male. It may even be a way to talk about domestic violence and the like while ignoring this (and mutual violence/abuse).

    i'd include male on male violence as gender based

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #8663
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iptba wrote: »
    I remember a friend of mine when he was a non-consultant hospital doctor unprompted complaining about young females coming to A&E supposedly as suicide attempts, but only after taking one or two tablets, for example, so that there was no real risk of death. I believe it's called parasuicide.

    Parasuicide (or suicidal gesture) is any nonfatal attempt at suicide but often refers to a half hearted attempt. Parasuicide is a major predictor of suicide.

    That means that someone who presents with a nonlethal overdose (for example) is at great risk of suicide and is articulating a cry for urgent help and is in great mental distress.

    I'd be pretty unimpressed with any doc who feels that a suicidal gesture shouldn't be taken seriously or deserves treatment.

    If anyone of either gender is rehearsing their suicide and shows up at hospital, treating them is saving their lives.


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    #8664
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fears-over-jobs-for-the-girls-backlash-as-high-education-minister-to-create-professor-posts-only-for-women-to-end-bias-37514739.html

    I wonder the legality of this one it's not even gender quota but straight out discrimination.


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    #8665
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Its the students who will study under them who will suffer


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    #8666
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Its the students who will study under them who will suffer

    I guess our big colleges will continue to drop in the world rankings


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    #8667
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I guess our big colleges will continue to drop in the world rankings

    Good :)


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    #8668
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Good :)

    I'll bite. Why is that a good thing?


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    #8669
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'll bite. Why is that a good thing?

    It obviously isn't but the shortsightedness of the decisions being made for political gain will mean that we will have to fix it down the line.


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    #8670
    givyjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    Calhoun wrote: »
    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fears-over-jobs-for-the-girls-backlash-as-high-education-minister-to-create-professor-posts-only-for-women-to-end-bias-37514739.html

    I wonder the legality of this one it's not even gender quota but straight out discrimination.
    Ludicrous. Makes a mockery of the positions and completey devalues them.


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    #8671
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    givyjoe wrote: »
    Ludicrous. Makes a mockery of the positions and completey devalues them.


    This is horrible but, every time I see a woman in a top position being interviewed on TV, I find myself thinking, did she earn her place or was she shoehorned in there. Its a very sad state of affairs and in my opinion this kind of quota carry on does more harm to women in general.


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