Madeleine McCann

Franz Von Peppercorn · 06-11-2018 01:58PM

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So tell me one tiny, tiny piece of evidence that there was an abductor? Because it would be news to me, and news to the world.

Heck, it would make headlines the world over!

Pretty sure it’s the consensus opinion of most of the world.

Thepoet85 · 06-11-2018 01:58PM

When was the last time she was seen alive? (By people outside of her immediate company)

Something I wondered about but can't find an answer.

SusieBlue · 06-11-2018 01:58PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So tell me one tiny, tiny piece of evidence that there was an abductor? Because it would be news to me, and news to the world.

Heck, it would make headlines the world over!

I have absolutely no interest in justifying my position to you, I don't need to, and I don't want to, because you will undoubtedly just scoff at it, seeing as you believe yourself to have some sort of superior knowledge on the case that neither the Portuguese nor UK police have.

Its not a simple, straightforward case. Its not a closed case. Its still an open investigation.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 01:59PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s the consensus opinion of most of the world.

That is true, but that doesn't answer my question.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 02:01PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Steve F wrote: »

I'm wondering if this is the scenario, then he somehow convinced her that she was just as much to blame as him and they would lose the twins??
Again Just putting this out there....

Your spouse could convince you of this in a short span of time, and persuade you to go along with a horrific plan, and 12 years later, your still onboard?

ozzy jr · 06-11-2018 02:01PM

Something Else

Lance Armstrong had a tendency to sue anyone who questioned his version of events......

Anyway, if (please note the if) the parents were somehow responsible for the poor girls death, I would be sure they would have disposed of the body, before announcing she was gone.

There's no way they would have been able to dispose of the body after the media descended on the area.

What is the last confirmed credible sighting of Madeline? A sighting that was verified by the police or hotel staff (or someone outside their group).

What was the time between that sighting and the discovery she was gone?

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 02:03PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

That is true, but that doesn't answer my question.

But everyone else is wrong then, 2 police forces from 2 different countries included, apart from you, a few other conspiracy theorists and Mr Amaral?

iamwhoiam · 06-11-2018 02:10PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

ozzy jr wrote: »

Lance Armstrong had a tendency to sue anyone who questioned his version of events......

Anyway, if (please note the if) the parents were somehow responsible for the poor girls death, I would be sure they would have disposed of the body, before announcing she was gone.

There's no way they would have been able to dispose of the body after the media descended on the area.

What is the last confirmed credible sighting of Madeline? A sighting that was verified by the police or hotel staff (or someone outside their group).

What was the time between that sighting and the discovery she was gone?

As far as I can see from the interviews on the PJ files it was a creche worker that saw Madeleine at about 12;30 pm .Almost sure I posted the interview somewhere on the thread .Will go hunt it down

here we go

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

cnocbui · 06-11-2018 02:11PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

This is all well and good, but there is evidence that the McCanns are involved, it is how the lead Detective came to his conclusion. The sniffer dogs, the change of story, the deleted phone records, etc, etc, etc.

There is absolutely no evidence of an abductor, absolutely none.

Speaking of that brilliant lead detective. Try and find a single photo of him involved at the scene doing something in the immediate aftermath and days that followed. There are lots of photos of sniffer dogs all over the scene with their handlers in the apartments, combing wasteland and scrub - Guarda Nacional Republicana shipped in post-haste, but no top dog. I always have found that very curious. The lead detective came to the conclusion that involved the least effort on his part. I wonder who it was in the PJ who spent so much effort leaking PJ theories predicated on the McCanns being culpable and case details to the 24Horas newspaper? If that nonsense had gone on in any country I have lived in there would have been a major inquiry into that alone.

It is not possible to delete phone records. All telecommunications companies have all the records and keep them for some time.

There is no evidence - period - that is why the case confounds to this day.

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 02:20PM

Something Else

The reason there is so much suspicion aim at the parents is that every aspect of the case leads to them doing something weird or suspicious like lying to the police, washing toys,changing stories, saying she was taken, etc etc.
Every part of the case make you wonder why did they do that or that's a strange thing to do

You can explain away 2 to 3 weird thing but not 20 plus

cnocbui · 06-11-2018 02:22PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So tell me one tiny, tiny piece of evidence that there was an abductor? Because it would be news to me, and news to the world.

Heck, it would make headlines the world over!

A lack of evidence of an occurrence does not mean something didn't occur. All you can logically conclude is that there is no evidence.

The old one about; 'if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one about to hear it fall, did it make a sound?' applies. The logical answer is; 'yes, probably,' but if someone demands proof - well that's just tough, there isn't any, but that doesn't mean it didn't make a sound when it fell.

iamwhoiam · 06-11-2018 02:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

SusieBlue wrote: »

I obviously can't speak for everyone but if my child went missing & I discovered a few hours later that she had actually had an accident & my husband had disposed of her body in a tennis bag, there is no way on earth I would keep up the charade to protect my husband.
Let alone keep it to myself for 10 years.
I can only imagine the tension, pressure & resentment that would cause between a couple yet their marriage never really wavered, they seemed like a strong couple throughout the last decade.

Are we really suggesting that Gerry told Kate he had discovered the child was dead & had gotten rid of the body, and Kate was just like "ok cool" and went along with it?
Even though it meant she couldn't bury her precious child? Even though it meant she allowed her husband dispose of her beloved daughter like rubbish? Even though it meant she had to keep up the pretence of searching for her "missing" child for over a decade?

I'm obviously only speaking from my own point of view here, but it just seems highly unlikely. Unless they are the most clever, psychotic criminals on earth, which I don't believe they are, I'm not buying it.

Unless he never told Kate .But again unlikely

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 02:28PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So tell me one tiny, tiny piece of evidence that there was an abductor? Because it would be news to me, and news to the world.

Heck, it would make headlines the world over!

Well the child was there one minute and then gone the next, with no sign of foul play or death.
I think that’s all the evidence most people need.

Plumbthedepths · 06-11-2018 02:28PM

SusieBlue wrote:

And again, just because it would be what "you" would do, it doesn't mean its automatically what everyone else would do too.

You claimed they were not allowed participate in a search for her.

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 02:30PM

So at least we all agree there isn't a single tiny piece of evidence that there was an abduction.

That's a start.

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 02:31PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So at least we all agree there isn't a single tiny piece of evidence that there was an abduction.

That's a start.

Apart from a disappearing child.

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 02:34PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So at least we all agree there isn't a single tiny piece of evidence that there was an abduction.

That's a start.

But that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Don’t you get that, at all?

splinter65 · 06-11-2018 02:36PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You claimed they were not allowed participate in a search for her.

Best practice in every single country in the developed world is that immediate family stay put while professionals search. Surely you know this.

cnocbui · 06-11-2018 02:37PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Dog Man Star wrote: »

So at least we all agree there isn't a single tiny piece of evidence that there was an abduction.

That's a start.

There is evidence of someone around here being deliberately provocative to the point of trolling.

Boom_Bap · 06-11-2018 02:38PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

There is evidence of someone around here being deliberately provocative to the point of trolling.

Please don't make accusations of trolling on thread, please report anything instead.

Plumbthedepths · 06-11-2018 02:39PM

splinter65 wrote:

Best practice in every single country in the developed world is that immediate family stay put while professionals search. Surely you know this.

Best practice does not translate into not allowed to join the search. This is from personal knowledge.

retro:electro · 06-11-2018 02:41PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

What “evidence of an abduction” are people looking for exactly? A note saying “I’ve kidnapped your child”?
This is the real world. Most abductors just get in and out as quickly as possible and many leave no trace of their presence whatsoever.
I think the absence of a child is evidence enough.

Steve F · 06-11-2018 02:42PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Your spouse could convince you of this in a short span of time, and persuade you to go along with a horrific plan, and 12 years later, your still onboard?

Yes,thats my question. If it's what happened or not I have no idea

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 02:42PM

Something Else

splinter65 wrote: »

Best practice in every single country in the developed world is that immediate family stay put while professionals search. Surely you know this.

That maybe true but that would only apply one the police got there and got the situation under control.
I can't imagine any parent not spending those minutes before the police arrived not searching

I once saw a woman looking for her child that ran off . She was running around , shouting his name and looking everywhere. That the way I would expect a parent to react

bunderoon · 06-11-2018 02:44PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

Well the child was there one minute and then gone the next, with no sign of foul play or death.
I think that’s all the evidence most people need.

The thing is, there were signs of death - have you read anything about the cadaver dogs?

Multiple areas flagged by the dogs.

Steve F · 06-11-2018 02:46PM

bunderoon wrote: »

The thing is, there were signs of death - have you read anything about the cadaver dogs?

Multiple areas flagged by the dogs.

Yes,this troubles me
They have a high accuracy rate I believe...?
Did Gerry not say "Ask the Dogs"?

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 02:47PM

retro:electro wrote: »

What “evidence of an abduction” are people looking for exactly? A note saying “I’ve kidnapped your child”?
This is the real world. Most abductors just get in and out as quickly as possible and many leave no trace of their presence whatsoever.
I think the absence of a child is evidence enough.

Any evidence at all. A forced lock, forensic, a stray hair, a fingerprint, a footprint, a witness, some noise, a sighting, circumstantial, anything. Anything other than none whatsoever. Because that's what there is, none whatsoever.

retro:electro wrote: »

I think the absence of a child is evidence enough

Ok then.

the_pen_turner · 06-11-2018 02:49PM

Something Else

retro:electro wrote: »

What “evidence of an abduction” are people looking for exactly? A note saying “I’ve kidnapped your child”?
This is the real world. Most abductors just get in and out as quickly as possible and many leave no trace of their presence whatsoever.
I think the absence of a child is evidence enough.

By that logic then the lack of a child is just as much evidence that they killed her.

You would imagine a stranger going into a dark unfamiliar room would knock something or leave a footprint, be a struggle ,make a noise or something.
No evidence doesn't mean it didn't happen but it makes it less likely

Dog Man Star · 06-11-2018 02:50PM

Steve F wrote: »

Yes,thats my question. If it's what happened or not I have no idea

It's not just a case of going along with it. They had left the children alone. They would have lost the twins, their careers and possible been jailed.

There would be no other choice but to go along with it.

iamwhoiam · 06-11-2018 02:52PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

the_pen_turner wrote: »

That maybe true but that would only apply one the police got there and got the situation under control.
I can't imagine any parent not spending those minutes before the police arrived not searching

I once saw a woman looking for her child that ran off . She was running around , shouting his name and looking everywhere. That the way I would expect a parent to react

I was in P da L a year later and I actually found myself looking for Madeleine . I knew in my head she was not going to be sitting on a fence waiting untill I found her but I still looked in ditches etc as I past them .Daft I know .Its an instinct that is primal in a parent I think .That awful moment of horror and the frantic searching and calling and looking is a natural instinct . I of course dont know how I would react in the Mc Canns situation but all my instincts tell me I would search and dig up the beach with my hands and look in every blessed bin . I cannot imagine I would sit at home waiting for someone else to look as I would trust them to do it right .

Madeleine McCann

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