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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

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  • #2282
    Stacksofwacks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭Stacksofwacks


    Result from Carrick on Suir(St Mollerans) in the IFC final as Kilmac make a comeback in the second half to win beating a fancied Modeligo 2-13 to 1-14. Great attacking football from both sides in a game that ebbed and flowed quite an achievement by new Waterford senior manager Benji Whelan to get a Kilmac side the few people rated at the start of the year back up to the senior ranks.


  • #2283
    Mastermcgrath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Mastermcgrath


    thesaturdayman wrote: »
    Seems all is not totally lost for Carriganore yet Sunday independent reporting WIT have extended an olive branch.

    To miss this bus again would be criminal.

    http://indo.ie/NQXu30muwqg

    The proposal would mean that the stadium will be owned by WIT and Waterford GAA will be merely tenants... it would be unprecendented in GAA circles but makes perfect sense. Too much sense I would fear.....


  • #2284
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    Mastermcgrath wrote: »
    The proposal would mean that the stadium will be owned by WIT and Waterford GAA will be merely tenants... it would be unprecendented in GAA circles but makes perfect sense. Too much sense I would fear.....

    Don’t think that’s stated there??

    It looks like “we are open for business, let’s sit down & talk”


  • #2285
    killbillvol2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,182 ✭✭✭killbillvol2


    thesaturdayman wrote: »
    Don’t think that’s stated there??

    It looks like “we are open for business, let’s sit down & talk”

    Maybe you should actually read the article if you're going to comment on it.


  • #2286
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    killbillvol2 wrote: »
    Maybe you should actually read the article if you're going to comment on it.

    Yea Iv read it, I am sure there is more to it then Gaa build a stadium and Wit owns it!!


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  • #2287
    Mastermcgrath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Mastermcgrath


    thesaturdayman wrote: »

    Yea Iv read it, I am sure there is more to it then Gaa build a stadium and Wit owns it!!

    It would be a partnership, akin to the Aviva in Dublin whereby The FAI helped fund it but don’t actually own it.

    the Waterford co board still view Walsh Park as very much their spiritual home in Waterford, I can’t see that being foresaken all of a sudden just because of some noises, especially that planning permission has been granted etc.


  • #2288
    Cake Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Cake Man


    It's a tough one alright. On one hand, it'd be great to build up Carriganore and have a stadium we'd be proud of as opposed to the run down and outdated ones we're currently stuck with. It would be a big statement of ambition and intention for the future as well.
    However, if doing so would bury the county board and clubs in debt for the next X years then it's hard to say it'd be a good idea. As another poster said previously, it's now or never and if it's anyway feasible it should be at least considered before anymore money is wasted on Walsh Park.


  • #2289
    cul beag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 969 ✭✭✭cul beag


    Croke Park will only help fund Walsh Park apparently.


  • #2290
    JesusRef
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭JesusRef


    Beggars can't be choosers


  • #2291
    mountgomery burns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭mountgomery burns


    Stacksofwacks wrote: »
    Result from Carrick on Suir(St Mollerans) in the IFC final as Kilmac make a comeback in the second half to win beating a fancied Modeligo 2-13 to 1-14. Great attacking football from both sides in a game that ebbed and flowed quite an achievement by new Waterford senior manager Benji Whelan to get a Kilmac side the few people rated at the start of the year back up to the senior ranks.

    A brilliant achievement by an excellent manager, not sure what the Waterford footballers realistic goal would be but a great appointment.


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  • #2292
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    cul beag wrote: »
    Croke Park will only help fund Walsh Park apparently.

    Who said that? Do you have a quote or link to where Croke Park said it?


  • #2293
    deiseach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭deiseach


    Good article from Dermot Crowe. I think it's obvious what he thinks is the right course of action, or at least what the wrong one is. He's done a lot of research in terms of contacting interested parties though and gives all the options a fair hearing.

    But - you knew this was coming - I'm not letting this slide:
    A study of Waterford's form in league and championship matches at the venue against top division opponents over the last 20 years threw up some interesting results. In Walsh Park, Waterford's win rate was notably lower than bigger pitches in Kilkenny, Cork and Thurles, where large areas tend to suit the expansive game they've traditionally liked to play. Even with the redevelopment, Walsh Park's playing surface cannot be extended.

    Taking it at face value, and the whole pitch size thing has been debunked time and time and again, it's just wrong. Assuming the 'top division opponents' are Clare, Cork, Galway, Limerick, Kilkenny, Tipperary and Wexford, this is our record at the four venues in League and Championship since 1996 (I've stretched it out to there on the basis that he references the game that season at Walsh Park against Tipp a few times).

    overall-records-in-league-and-championship-1996-2018.png

    Now, you might argue that we should have a better home record, but that's not what he is saying. If we are going to put the results into context, the records at Páirc Uí Chaoimh and Nowlan Park are not statistically significant - one extra loss at the latter is worth nearly 10% to the win rate - so the best comparison is Walsh Park v Semple Stadium and, all other things being equal, it's clear we are better at Walsh Park.


  • #2294
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    are you including teams like down, derry & Kerry in this?

    Deise AM had plenty noise on WIT / Walsh Park this morning;

    https://soundcloud.com/wlrfmwaterford/fresh-calls-for-waterford-gaa-to-relocate-to-carriganore


  • #2295
    liogairmhordain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭liogairmhordain


    deiseach wrote: »
    Good article from Dermot Crowe.


    Not that impressed with it tbh. Aside from the inaccuracy you have highlighted, he was wrong about a few other things.
    In the first two paragraphs he retired Brick Walsh (news to us all) and said we haven't played a Munster championship match in Walsh Park since 1996 (we played Kerry there in 2003). He repeats the latter mistake later in the article.
    There's a quote from Derek McGrath in it where Derek supposedly said he wouldn't describe his relationship with Paddy Joe Ryan as "unreliably harmonious" - this makes no sense. What he actually said was that he wouldn't describe it as "unbelievably harmonious".
    Later on in the article Crowe says that "the best Waterford can hope for is that they will have the venue available for home games in the Munster Championship the year after next" which ignores the whole "Fraher Field or forget it" campaign for 2019 or the distinct possibility that Walsh Park, even in its current dilapidated state, will host our Munster championship matches against Clare and Limerick next summer.
    The article gives the impression that the debts which hampered the county board in recent years stem from the redevelopment of fraher field and walsh park 25 years ago - no mention is made of the sudden increase in county team administration costs approx ten years ago, or the money lost on concerts etc etc etc.


  • #2296
    Ropaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭Ropaire


    If Carriganore is an option again it's the best long term solution hands down. Walsh Park as a last resort would have plugged a gap for a while, but with no floodlights and only 3 sides developed it would be some kip regardless of what was done with it. 
    It would be a massive mistake not to go with Carriganore now, or at least to look into it instead of dismissing it out of hand as the county board in their infinite wisdom are doing. I hate going to Walsh Park for games, the place is a fn disaster. The new stadium is still going to be a joke wit hthe design they proposed so why not go to Carriganore and do this stadium craic properly and for the long term?


  • #2297
    Deisegodeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Deisegodeo


    Some big game this week for Waterford schools. Fixtures are:

    Dean Ryan Final:
    DLS v Thurles CBS on Friday at 1.30 in Ardfinnan

    Harty Cup:
    DLS v Middleton and Blackwater v Templemore both on Wednesday


  • #2298
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    Ropaire wrote: »
    If Carriganore is an option again it's the best long term solution hands down. Walsh Park as a last resort would have plugged a gap for a while, but with no floodlights and only 3 sides developed it would be some kip regardless of what was done with it. 
    It would be a massive mistake not to go with Carriganore now, or at least to look into it instead of dismissing it out of hand as the county board in their infinite wisdom are doing. I hate going to Walsh Park for games, the place is a fn disaster. The new stadium is still going to be a joke wit hthe design they proposed so why not go to Carriganore and do this stadium craic properly and for the long term?

    County boards/paddy Joe’s points on carrignore could be summaried as follows.......

    1. Gaa/county board will only ever be a tenant does this matter a whole lot.....probably not hugely if a properly negotiated lease agreement is drawn up

    2. Gaa/croke Park will not fund a carrignore stadium therefore all monies would have to come from Waterford co board

    3. A carrignore stadium would cost in excess of €20m. This would mean levies in clubs for years and years.

    4. GAA/ croke Park will fully fund development of Walsh Park at an estimate cost of €5/6m

    So if above are correct there is very little choice but to stick with Walsh Park.

    If a 20-25k capacity stadium was developed would it ever fill to capacity. I think the answer is probably no. This year down in Ennis the Waterford v Clare game didn’t sell out think attendance was 12/13k. So a redeveloped Walsh Park with a Capacty of 15k would probably suffice.....issues re parking etc and traffic management on big match days can surely be resolved for the 2/3 big games there every year.....?


  • #2299
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,668 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    This whole stadium situation is turning into a farce once again

    The building works for Walsh park should of started by now


  • #2300
    914
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭914


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    This whole stadium situation is turning into a farce once again

    The building works for Walsh park should of started by now

    The joys of objections


  • #2301
    914
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭914


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    If a 20-25k capacity stadium was developed would it ever fill to capacity. I think the answer is probably no. This year down in Ennis the Waterford v Clare game didn’t sell out think attendance was 12/13k. So a redeveloped Walsh Park with a Capacty of 15k would probably suffice.....issues re parking etc and traffic management on big match days can surely be resolved for the 2/3 big games there every year.....?

    If carriganore was a go, I feel 15k would still be plenty out there. Louth are building a 12k stadium for €8 million which includes land purchases.

    With that in mind we could build 15/16k in carriganore for €12 million ish, double what walsh park is costing, that alone is enough reason for GAA HQ and county board to say no. (Unfortunately)

    If walsh park is a go, the county board should push ahead but still enter talks with WIT and explore the possibility of relocating to carriganore over the next 15-25 years if there is a need due to increased games and capacity.


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  • #2302
    hardybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    If you'd put the Carriganore project to me a number of years ago, I'd be all for it. However, now I'm not so sure.

    If you look at stadiums around the country, pretty much all of them are in urban areas. Croke Park, The Aviva, Thomand Park, Ravenhill in Belfast etc. were all renovated in recent years in their existing urban locations, and the Sportsground in Galway is another who are going with this route.

    The benefit of this approach is that the city benefits from the occasion. Pubs, hotels and restaurants get business, and the supporters can enjoy the atmosphere. The Millennium Stadium in Cardiff is often mentioned by supporters around the world as somewhere people love going to because it's smack in the city centre.

    If you go to the likes of the Allianz Arena in Munich, it's about twenty minutes on the train outside the city centre, and the Stade de France is similar (albeit in the town of St Denis). What you get there is a dull enough experience where people in the city don't realise that there is a game actually taking place, and people leave to go home in 20 different directions straight away after the game.

    Granted, Walsh Park is in between two stools in that it is in the middle of an urban area, but doesn't have many pubs or restaurants around it. However, I think it's still a better option than going out to the middle of nowhere.

    The North Quays was probably given as a tongue in cheek suggestion, but I think it'd be a really cool proposal if it could be explored further...


  • #2303
    thesultan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,751 ✭✭✭thesultan


    How will Ballygunner fare in the Munster Final? I think it's eight losses in nine finals. Very little colour around the place. People talk about Davy Fitz but I would say you'd find it very hard to see a bigger obnoxious man patrolling the sideline than Hartley at present.


  • #2304
    Mulbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭Mulbert


    thesultan wrote: »
    How will Ballygunner fare in the Munster Final? I think it's eight losses in nine finals. Very little colour around the place. People talk about Davy Fitz but I would say you'd find it very hard to see a bigger obnoxious man patrolling the sideline than Hartley at present.

    Ballygunner need a new full back in order to progress further in the Munster and AI club championship.


  • #2305
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,668 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    thesultan wrote: »
    How will Ballygunner fare in the Munster Final? I think it's eight losses in nine finals. Very little colour around the place. People talk about Davy Fitz but I would say you'd find it very hard to see a bigger obnoxious man patrolling the sideline than Hartley at present.

    Really now or never for Ballygunner but this NP side have everything and are very impressive. Ballygunner don't have the size NP have

    They really need too win this though as 8 loses in 9 finals is not a pretty stat and they can't say they don't have the experience

    A Ballygunner win could mean we will be missing there contingent for the League or at least the early rounds

    The Munster Champs will play the Leinster winners in the semis afaik


  • #2306
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    link from this mornings interview on WLR;

    https://soundcloud.com/wlrfmwaterford/former-mayor-pat-nugent-confirms-he-attended-meeting-on-feasibility-of-a-gaa-stadium-at-carriganore

    there was a report in July of this year given to the county board that has been hidden from the general public & clubs to now. This clearly shows Walsh Park is not the best option for county.

    There has to be serious questions to be answered on the governance of the county now, its all a bit murky.


  • #2307
    whiteandblue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 218 ✭✭whiteandblue


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Really now or never for Ballygunner but this NP side have everything and are very impressive. Ballygunner don't have the size NP have

    They really need too win this though as 8 loses in 9 finals is not a pretty stat and they can't say they don't have the experience

    A Ballygunner win could mean we will be missing there contingent for the League or at least the early rounds

    The Munster Champs will play the Leinster winners in the semis afaik

    Na Piarsaigh may have to sweat over injuries to Shane Dowling, Ronan Lynch and Kieran Kennedy according to this match report https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/na-piarsaighs-win-comes-at-a-cost-883187.html

    Dowling alone would be a loss but then again he didn't play in last year's decider and they still pulled away near the end to win by 8. They also defeated the gunners by 7 in the 2015 decider.


  • #2308
    thesaturdayman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 532 ✭✭✭thesaturdayman


    whiteandblue wrote: »
    Na Piarsaigh may have to sweat over injuries to Shane Dowling, Ronan Lynch and Kieran Kennedy according to this match report https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/na-piarsaighs-win-comes-at-a-cost-883187.html

    Dowling alone would be a loss but then again he didn't play in last year's decider and they still pulled away near the end to win by 8. They also defeated the gunners by 7 in the 2015 decider.

    I think its going to be a very close game, especially in lieu of underfoot conditions, slower pitch will suit BG over Na P


  • #2309
    hardybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    thesaturdayman wrote: »
    I think its going to be a very close game, especially in lieu of underfoot conditions, slower pitch will suit BG over Na P

    I would think the opposite. Na Piarsaigh always struck me on a really tough, physical side, who are extremely difficult to beat.


  • #2310
    hardybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    thesaturdayman wrote: »
    link from this mornings interview on WLR;

    https://soundcloud.com/wlrfmwaterford/former-mayor-pat-nugent-confirms-he-attended-meeting-on-feasibility-of-a-gaa-stadium-at-carriganore

    there was a report in July of this year given to the county board that has been hidden from the general public & clubs to now. This clearly shows Walsh Park is not the best option for county.

    There has to be serious questions to be answered on the governance of the county now, its all a bit murky.

    Do you know who commissioned or conducted the report?


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  • #2311
    fricatus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,919 ✭✭✭fricatus


    hardybuck wrote: »
    The North Quays was probably given as a tongue in cheek suggestion, but I think it'd be a really cool proposal if it could be explored further...

    The North Quays site is very long but it’s not deep enough. I did some back-of-an-envelope research a while ago and the only site near the centre is the Waterside. The secon-closest was Walsh Park! See my OP and subsequent discussion here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057852418


This discussion has been closed.
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