Madeleine McCann

tinpib · 03-11-2018 10:48AM

Something Else

judeboy101 wrote: »

Can't find anything on cadaver dogs but US courts have ruled drugs dogs no better than a coin toss

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?noredirect=on

Ya, similar but not the same, you'd need to see figures based on cadaver dogs but you raise a valid point.

Again in the Richard Hall docs he goes into the cadaver dogs in depth, as in maybe 30 mins or so about them but I can't recall the details.

This thread is making me want to watch them again, maybe I'll manage full 14 hours this time, they are heavy enough going

tinpib · 03-11-2018 10:53AM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EMMA_WILDING.htm

There are police interviews with creche staff and had seen Madeleine on May 3 rd in the creche . Do you honestly think they are all confused or lying or covering something up ? Why would they ?

Again Richard Hall goes into that in depth. He spends ages talking about the staff member that said Madeliene was there. Again going from memory there were inconsistencies with signing in sheets that the creche had which would lead to me thinking they were falsified, as in, after the fact Madeliene's name was added to the signing in sheet to say she was present.

As I just posted I think I will start watching the docs again as he really does seem to deal with every point raised that supports the McCanns story, then digs into it and finds inconsistencies to show that it could be false.

iamwhoiam · 03-11-2018 10:58AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tinpib wrote: »

Again Richard Hall goes into that in depth. He spends ages talking about the staff member that said Madeliene was there. Again going from memory there were inconsistencies with signing in sheets that the creche had which would lead to me thinking they were falsified, as in, after the fact Madeliene's name was added to the signing in sheet to say she was present.

As I just posted I think I will start watching the docs again as he really does seem to deal with every point raised that supports the McCanns story, then digs into it and finds inconsistencies to show that it could be false.

the signing in sheets seemed to have been very poorly managed .That still doesn't explain the nannys stating Madeleine was there and they saw her .I cannot think why two or three nannys would lie for strangers and cover up a crime ./I can well imagine someone mucking up or correcting a signing in sheet to cover there own arses .But not to cover up a crime on a child in their care .It makes no sense whatsoever .

tinpib · 03-11-2018 11:02AM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

.I cannot think why two or three nannys would lie for strangers and cover up a crime.

I don't remember that bit, that's interesting. I'm like a broken record here but my gut says Richard Hall probably dealt with that too, just I can't remember it.

iamwhoiam · 03-11-2018 11:08AM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

tinpib wrote: »

I don't remember that bit, that's interesting. I'm like a broken record here but my gut says Richard Hall probably dealt with that too, just I can't remember it.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

Scroll down to " NANNY'S CRECHE KIDS & CLUB STAFF " and the statements are there in English from creche staff

tinpib · 03-11-2018 11:22AM

Something Else

iamwhoiam wrote: »

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TRANSLATIONS.htm

Scroll down to " NANNY'S CRECHE KIDS & CLUB STAFF " and the statements are there in English from creche staff

Yes, to clarify what I mean is I read the statements in your link before I posted and saw that bit and didn't remember that part from the documentary.

ozzy jr · 03-11-2018 01:03PM

Something Else

judeboy101 wrote: »

Is there, more like sharon?

You shouldn't be so quick to diss the opinion of an expert in their field.

This case really brings out strange behaviour in people.

the_pen_turner · 03-11-2018 01:04PM

Something Else

can i ask everyone that belives they didnt have any involvement in her disapearace , why do you believe it.
we often see on the news where parents brutally kill their kids , so its not like we can think that a parent would never do that. it happens regularly.

i dont know what happened but there are lots of things that are very odd about the parents and their actions around that time

SusieBlue · 03-11-2018 01:29PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

If you watch the actual official video of the cadevar dogs examining the car, they actually ran away from the car loads of times and were paying more attention to other regular cars parked nearby (not owned by the McCann’s).
It was only when the trainers repeatedly directed the dogs attention back to the mccanns car several times that they gave the ‘positive’ result.

The video is online and available to watch.

limnam · 03-11-2018 01:35PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

If you watch the actual official video of the cadevar dogs examining the car, they actually ran away from the car loads of times and were paying more attention to other regular cars parked nearby (not owned by the McCann’s).
It was only when the trainers repeatedly directed the dogs attention back to the mccanns car several times that they gave the ‘positive’ result.

The video is online and available to watch.

But the dog didn't give a positive result on any other car?

You think the guy the FBI have now hired who has a 100% record with these dogs tried to get the dog to give a positie result on the mcanns car?

Why is it any doubt on the mcanns is dismissed but professional experts in their field, people with impeccable records are the ones to doubt?

Charmeleon · 03-11-2018 01:38PM

SusieBlue wrote: »

If you watch the actual official video of the cadevar dogs examining the car, they actually ran away from the car loads of times and were paying more attention to other regular cars parked nearby (not owned by the McCann’s).
It was only when the trainers repeatedly directed the dogs attention back to the mccanns car several times that they gave the ‘positive’ result.

The video is online and available to watch.

There’s a documentary online that shows Martin Grimes working with his dogs looking for minute traces of blood and human remains, this is how they work. You are talking about minute particles releasing scent that would be measured in molecules escaping from a closed car. They don’t give false positives due to the handler telepathically telling them ‘indicate right here!’.

Look at how the dog discovers ‘cuddle cat’ when it was hidden inside a press or how it picks only the McCann’s clothes in a large selection of clothes.

cnocbui · 03-11-2018 01:47PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I can't believe people are still seriously going on about the totally discredited cadaver dog nonsense. The dogs were clearly and clumsily directed by their handler, Martin Grimes, to respond to the car. It's clear in the videos, it's not even subtle like with Clever Hans, the horse, reacting to subliminal signals from his handler.

Grimes set himself up as a business (unlicensed), with the dogs. After the McCann publicity, he and the dogs were called upon to find the bodies of children in the infamous Haut de la Garenne children’s home, on the Island of Jersey. That will be £93,000, thank you.

There too, the dogs indicated there were bodies buried. The UK government - on the basis of the dogs findings of bodies - then spent £20 million chasing those bodies - which were never there. Nothing - zilch - no bodies.

Charmeleon · 03-11-2018 01:49PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

Can't find anything on cadaver dogs but US courts have ruled drugs dogs no better than a coin toss

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2015/08/04/federal-appeals-court-drug-dog-thats-barely-more-accurate-than-a-coin-flip-is-good-enough/?noredirect=on

Can’t read the article because it’s behind a pay wall but you have to remember that the dogs detect traces of drugs that have since been removed. Police won’t be able to find drugs that are no longer where they left very minute traces.

There was a similar argument made about cadaver dogs, not that they weren’t accurate but that they indicate the former presence of any human body which can cause delays in determining which alerts are relevant to the case in hand.

fin12 · 03-11-2018 01:54PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

There is not one bit of evidence Madeline McCann was abducted.

I believe her parents were involved and know exactly what happened to Madeline.

cnocbui · 03-11-2018 01:56PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

There’s a documentary online that shows Martin Grimes working with his dogs looking for minute traces of blood and human remains, this is how they work. You are talking about minute particles releasing scent that would be measured in molecules escaping from a closed car. They don’t give false positives due to the handler telepathically telling them ‘indicate right here!’.

Look at how the dog discovers ‘cuddle cat’ when it was hidden inside a press or how it picks only the McCann’s clothes in a large selection of clothes.

Except there was no blood or human remains. No traces of Madeleine's blood have ever been found. The dog's might be very sensitive but if they detect something and forensic examinations don't support the findings, then it's a false positive.

A cadaver dog handler in the US was jailed when it was found she was causing the dogs to deliberately false-positive.

Charmeleon · 03-11-2018 01:56PM

cnocbui wrote: »

I can't believe people are still seriously going on about the totally discredited cadaver dog nonsense. The dogs were clearly and clumsily directed by their handler, Martin Grimes, to respond to the car. It's clear in the videos, it's not even subtle like with Clever Hans, the horse, reacting to subliminal signals from his handler.

Grimes set himself up as a business (unlicensed), with the dogs. After the McCann publicity, he and the dogs were called upon to find the bodies of children in the infamous Haut de la Garenne children’s home, on the Island of Jersey. That will be £93,000, thank you.

There too, the dogs indicated there were bodies buried. The UK government - on the basis of the dogs findings of bodies - then spent £20 million chasing those bodies - which were never there. Nothing - zilch - no bodies.

Simple misunderstanding of how the dogs work. They detect molecules of cadaver scent and blood scent that start being released within an hour or so of death. It’s an indication that a body was there at some point.

cnocbui · 03-11-2018 01:56PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

fin12 wrote: »

There is not one bit of evidence Madeline McCann was abducted.

I believe her parents were involved and know exactly what happened to Madeline.

There is not one bit of evidence that she wasn't. You can believe in faeries all you like, but without evidence of faeries your belief is worthless to anyone else.

cnocbui · 03-11-2018 01:59PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

Simple misunderstanding of how the dogs work. They detect molecules of cadaver scent and blood scent that start being released within an hour or so of death. It’s an indication that a body was there at some point.

Rubbish.

Charmeleon · 03-11-2018 01:59PM

cnocbui wrote: »

Except there was no blood or human remains. No traces of Madeleine's blood have ever been found. The dog's might be very sensitive but if they detect something and forensic examinations don't support the findings, then it's a false positive.

A cadaver dog handler in the US was jailed when it was found she was causing the dogs to deliberately false-positive.

Incorrect, she was planting genuine human remains which her dogs then correctly identified.

fin12 · 03-11-2018 02:00PM

Accident happened, parents hid body

cnocbui wrote: »

There is not one bit of evidence that she wasn't.

No it’s just a story her parents have told the media, they are the ones who said that’s what’s happened but no evidence to support it.

There was a little boy who went missing Ben Needham, his parents never came out and said he was abducted, why did Kate MCCann said straight away her child was taken, the child was left alone, could have wondered off by herself but no the mCCanns says she was abducted so therefore she must have been abducted, such a load of bullsh*t.

Dog Man Star · 03-11-2018 02:31PM

The most interesting part with the sniffer dogs is how quickly Gerry McCann dismissed them. Why did he dismiss them? Does he want to know what happened to his daughter?

No. Because he already knows.

This is also why neither of them ever searched for her.

ozzy jr · 03-11-2018 03:35PM

Something Else

A good breakdown of the facts here,

http://laidbareblog.blogspot.com/2015/06/20-facts-about-disappearance-of.html?m=1

optimist16 · 03-11-2018 03:46PM

Madeleine Page 219/120 : “Did they really believe that a dog could smell the ‘odour of death’ three months later from a body that had been removed so swiftly?”
While Kate is correct in that it takes time for chemical reactions to produce the ‘odour of death’ that a cadaver dog would detect (90 minutes or less depending on local conditions) , there is no record of any suggestion that the body had been removed swiftly. Only Kate puts forward this scenario.

Once suspects they look to the Zapata case to discredit the dogs. That's where the judge had thrown out the evidence of the dogs. A few months later Eugene Zapata confesses and the dogs are vindicated. McCann's don't mention it again. In fact, when it's brought up they use a tactic I've seen a lot here!!

Haute de la Garenne? So many inconsistencies there too (ref Stuart Syvret). Jimmy Saville denied his visits until photos proved otherwise.

Oh and as for the cost of the dogs, it's not a patch on the McCann limited company.

God forbid they should take a lie detector!!

More?? Gaspar's statement. Amy Tierney. Tanner's sexual innuendos. I'll leave out the perfect genitals.

iamwhoiam · 03-11-2018 04:06PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

^^^^ @ optimist . Who are we to leave alone and why ? Your post is making no sense really

MonkieSocks · 03-11-2018 05:25PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Charmeleon wrote: »

T

Look at how the dog discovers ‘cuddle cat’ when it was hidden inside a press or how it picks only the McCann’s clothes in a large selection of clothes.

But don't forget these Dogs also alert to Blood, which could be there for weeks.

Apartment 5A was rented out a family the week before, the man cut himself and walked about ( Blood Scent)

Apartment 5A another previous family , their kid got a bad cut on the chin needing stitches

DNA samples taken by Scotland Yard from the Apartment and Car were not a match for Madeline.

@ 0.56 Eddie is in Bedroom, goes into wardrobe and indicates nothing.
No Sign of Cuddle Cat
___________________________

@ 1.46 sitting room, Eddie pulls out Cuddle Cat ( Does not Bark/Alert to scent )

@1.54 Eddie has dragged Cuddle Cat To the middle of the floor No Alert

@ 2.03 Eddie walks by Cuddle Cat a few times: No Alert
____________________________

@ 2.23 We are back in the same Bedroom as above.

@2.59 MAN opens wardrobe door, Eddie enters.

@ 3.20 Eddie exits wardrobe; no alert

@ 3.23 MAN opens wardrobe further and shows that Cuddle cat is there.
____________________________

@ 3.42 Kitchen and Eddie alerts.
____________________________

@4.48 We are back in the same Bedroom as above.

@ 5.08 Man opens wardrobe for Eddie. No alert

____________________________

@5.44 back in Kitchen

@ 5.51 Man picks Cuddle Cat out of kitchen cupboard and hold it up for camera

Dog Man Star · 03-11-2018 05:42PM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

But don't forget these Dogs also alert to Blood, which could be there for weeks. Blah blah blah

That post is a load of ****e, unreadable.

I've read a lot of information from the case, too much maybe. My overwhelming conclusion is the same as the Portugese Police, that Madeline died in the apartment and the death was covered up by the McCanns.

One last thing I will say is this.

When Michaela McAreavey was murdered in the Maldives, her husband was interviewed as a suspect. He said about this that when you are as low as he was, he didn't care about this. He had just lost his wife.

Compare and contrast to the McCanns when they were named as suspects. No questions answered and left Portugal as soon as they could.

judeboy101 · 03-11-2018 06:48PM

Something Else

Dog Man Star wrote: »

That post is a load of ****e, unreadable.

I've read a lot of information from the case, too much maybe. My overwhelming conclusion is the same as the Portugese Police, that Madeline died in the apartment and the death was covered up by the McCanns.

One last thing I will say is this.

When Michaela McAreavey was murdered in the Maldives, her husband was interviewed as a suspect. He said about this that when you are as low as he was, he didn't care about this. He had just lost his wife.

Compare and contrast to the McCanns when they were named as suspects. No questions answered and left Portugal as soon as they could.

Now that's a case that deserves closer scrutiny.

optimist16 · 03-11-2018 06:49PM

I'd missed this so in case you did too....
They're short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y42_8vggMNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HwA79IjsWo

Football?

He's so quick to stop her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9mcOMnx0Kc

There's a lot under Jane Tanner on YT

MonkieSocks · 03-11-2018 06:55PM

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

optimist16 wrote: »

I'd missed this so in case you did too....
They're short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y42_8vggMNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HwA79IjsWo

Football?

He's so quick to stop her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9mcOMnx0Kc

There's a lot under Jane Tanner on YT

Didn't Scotland Yard identify that man as Dr Julian Totman, who was carrying his own child

optimist16 · 03-11-2018 07:01PM

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Didn't Scotland Yard identify that man as Dr Julian Totman, who was carrying his own child

Maybe so, but that's not what these are referring to.

Madeleine McCann

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