Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

listermint · 31-10-2018 12:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My point has always been that the 'rage' is being cheaply exploited by Casey.

The real rage should be directed at those who are creating the perfect storm.
Those who advocate that rural life is unsustainable and who support the stripping of services are where the anger should be directed.

I simply don't believe travellers are inherently more disposed to violence as others...seems to me thst if you strip rural Ireland of it's security infrastructure while at the same time creating a have and have not economy, that there will be those who take advantage from across the whole of society.

Leo and the 'establishment' are probably just as delighted with the Hang Em High Casey sideshow.

And thats exactly what it is.

None of these 300K plus voters i can guarantee you are bothered getting up off their arses to speak to their local TDs or Councillors to get their opinion heard. They dont want to bother bar throwing out 'protest' votes as if it does anything.

Waste of time.

If you want real change then start talking to the issues. Casey isnt shining a light on something. These issues are always there just people arent bothered speaking to the real play makers. Too busy worrying about planning permission or the pot hole down the road.

tretorn · 31-10-2018 12:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My point has always been that the 'rage' is being cheaply exploited by Casey.

The real rage should be directed at those who are creating the perfect storm.
Those who advocate that rural life is unsustainable and who support the stripping of services are where the anger should be directed.

I simply don't believe travellers are inherently more disposed to violence as others...seems to me thst if you strip rural Ireland of it's security infrastructure while at the same time creating a have and have not economy, that there will be those who take advantage from across the whole of society.

Leo and the 'establishment' are probably just as delighted with the Hang Em High Casey sideshow.

Are you for real?????

Have you any idea why three hundred thousand people voted for Casey, someone who they never heard of before.
Can you explain why the vote was so high in areas where there are a lot of travellers.
Maybe get on a bus to Rathkeale or Tuam or Longford and pass the time of day eith the locals. You might learn something, you never know, you just might.

elperello · 31-10-2018 12:25PM

I support the Irish Times by buying every day.
I don't agree with all the articles or editorials.

Opinion pieces are as the title suggests someones opinion.
I have no problem with being challenged by someone who thinks differently to me and puts forward a rational argument.

I find the news coverage excellent and balanced.

The Times is the only alternative to "Dinny's Express" and foreign owned media.

Jackman25 · 31-10-2018 12:25PM

listermint wrote: »

And thats exactly what it is.

None of these 300K plus voters i can guarantee you are bothered getting up off their arses to speak to their local TDs or Councillors to get their opinion heard. They dont want to bother bar throwing out 'protest' votes as if it does anything.

Waste of time.

If you want real change then start talking to the issues. Casey isnt shining a light on something. These issues are always there just people arent bothered speaking to the real play makers. Too busy worrying about planning permission or the pot hole down the road.

I haven't seen that poll that shows the results that none of the people that voted for Casey will raise the issues that concerned them with prospective candidates when they are canvassing for the GE.
I know I certainly will.
Can you put up a link to that poll?

omega man · 31-10-2018 12:40PM

listermint wrote: »

And thats exactly what it is.

None of these 300K plus voters i can guarantee you are bothered getting up off their arses to speak to their local TDs or Councillors to get their opinion heard. They dont want to bother bar throwing out 'protest' votes as if it does anything.

Waste of time.

If you want real change then start talking to the issues. Casey isnt shining a light on something. These issues are always there just people arent bothered speaking to the real play makers. Too busy worrying about planning permission or the pot hole down the road.

But isn’t that the problem. TDs / councillors are afraid to speak out on these issues. Casey wasn’t.

KrustyUCC · 31-10-2018 12:46PM

omega man wrote: »

But isn’t that the problem. TDs / councillors are afraid to speak out on these issues. Casey wasn’t.

Exactly

Even if people speak to their TDs/Councillors/Those seeking election many have already expressed opinions in public that Casey was wrong in what he said and have made positive comments about Travellers and that they are marginalised/face discrimination etc

Waste of time talking to those TDs/Councillors who won't change on their public positions

Squiggle · 31-10-2018 12:48PM

DChancer wrote: »

Certainly not a knob head like Peter Casey!
A populist hate monger spreading divisive drivel to fools who really should know better.
He should fcuk back of Murica now, after that's where he pays his taxes, not here!

The fools are the ones entertaining the chancers in Thurles who are turning up their noses at houses costing €348,000 each, and who happen to be travellers. The bigger fools are the ones contemplating, and the ones supporting, adding two stables and a half acre of land to each dwelling at a rough cost of €25,000 per dwelling. Plenty of hard working people out there can't afford a €373,000 house. That's what leads to division. We need to get real.

The_Kew_Tour · 31-10-2018 01:19PM

Squiggle wrote: »

The fools are the ones entertaining the chancers in Thurles who are turning up their noses at houses costing €348,000 each, and who happen to be travellers. The bigger fools are the ones contemplating, and the ones supporting, adding two stables and a half acre of land to each dwelling at a rough cost of €25,000 per dwelling. Plenty of hard working people out there can't afford a €373,000 house. That's what leads to division. We need to get real.

The problem is these fools are in here and speaking against it in public

You be surprised how many think throwing this 1.7m away is also OK.

Cork Boy 53 · 31-10-2018 01:23PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I am delighted to hear that you are happy with the result. The demise of the Sinn Fein candidate and the high level of support for Peter Casey were the two biggest stories of the result, and I would agree with you that I am happy with the result.

Actually the biggest story of all was that Michael D was re-elected to the Aras for the next seven years. Those other outcomes were related but secondary.

PlaneSpeeking · 31-10-2018 01:24PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Actually the biggest story of all was that Michael D was re-elected to the Aras for the next seven years. Those other outcomes were related but secondary.

How in God's name is "half the voters go for the status quo" THE biggest story ?

Quit obfuscating.

Cork Boy 53 · 31-10-2018 01:30PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

How in God's name is "half the voters go for the status quo" THE biggest story ?

Quit obfuscating.

Sorry, but any election related news I saw or read had Michael D`s re-election as the number one story. Casey`s high vote and the low votes for the other candidates were secondary news. Is that ok with you or am I still obfuscating?

qwerty ui op · 31-10-2018 01:31PM

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Easily enraged is it francie!!! I've enjoyed your comments on here and your well able to stand up for yourself Fairplay, but this has it a cord with me, I deal with people in my area who have been terrorized in their homes over the years by the ethnic community, one old lady was robbed(thank God she was out) but the stress of it all she had a stroke and died a few weeks after the burglary, many a horse has died in the last year from been driven into the ground because it's Their culture..... so ya this pack here in Tipperary won't be moving onto the next thing Francie we have to deal with these problems daily, but sure us country peolpe are a means to and end for our over lords in posh south dublin. I think I'm entitled to be a bit enraged Francie

How many posts in all these thread and all the same, "little old lady..." "animals..." yet how few posts deal pragmatically with opportunities for young travellers. The day you do is the day i'll believe you actually give a **** about the "elderly couple" and the "animals".

It's amazing how so many can look into this issue and only go so far. But when it comes to actually advocating something constructive their hatred and anger always gets the better of them.

How about you forget about how wounderful you are and how you're"entitled to be a bit enraged" look at these issues pragmatically!

"I'm animal lover...":rolleyes:
As opposed to who for **** sake.

PlaneSpeeking · 31-10-2018 01:35PM

qwerty ui op wrote: »

How many posts in all these thread and all the same, "little old lady..." "animals..." yet how few posts deal pragmatically with opportunities for young travellers. The day you do is the day i'll believe you actually give a **** about the "elderly couple" and the "animals".

It's amazing how so many can look into this issue and only go so far. But when it comes to actually advocating something constructive their hatred and anger always gets the better of them.

How about you forget about how wounderful you are and how you're"entitled to be a bit enraged" look at these issues pragmatically!

"I'm animal lover...":rolleyes:
As opposed to who for **** sake.

Travellers with horses for one.

PlaneSpeeking · 31-10-2018 01:36PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sorry, but any election related news I saw or read had Michael D`s re-election as the number one story. Casey`s high vote and the low votes for the other candidates were secondary news. Is that ok with you or am I still obfuscating?

Yeah cos there's no bias in the media is there ?

If they could have omitted mention of Casey completely they - and no doubt you - would have loved that.

Jackman25 · 31-10-2018 01:51PM

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sorry, but any election related news I saw or read had Michael D`s re-election as the number one story. Casey`s high vote and the low votes for the other candidates were secondary news. Is that ok with you or am I still obfuscating?

I'm not sure what echo chamber you are occupying, but any media I have seen, all the talk is about Casey. The Irish Times is still almost a week later churning out articles on it. Fintan yesterday, Kathy today.
Twitter is still jumping up and down about it.
Boards.ie is all over it.
Brendan O'Connor show is discussing it tonight.
Any one that thinks Caseys vote is not the big story of the election is on cloud cuckoo land.

Cork Boy 53 · 31-10-2018 01:51PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Yeah cos there's no bias in the media is there ?

If they could have omitted mention of Casey completely they - and no doubt you - would have loved that.

My point is still valid.

Bannasidhe · 31-10-2018 01:55PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Travellers with horses for one.

An elderly little pony I began looking after 5 years ago died this weekend.

He died in a sanctuary surrounded by a herd of other (also rescued) ponies with a vet there and every possible effort, no expense spared, was made to save him.

Lat year I talked his owners into letting me take him out of the field he had spent 10 years in. 10 years of no vet, no equine dentist, no farrier, no worming. His teeth were so bad he was starving.

His owners are one of the largest landowners in a North Cork village.
There are most certainly not Travellers. At no point during the years I looked after their pony did they even offer to cover the price of a bale of hay.

One of the other ( 2 year old) ponies in the Sanctuary was voluntarily surrendered by a young Traveller who had been trying to mind him but realised he was out of this depth.

A 2 year old cob there was sold on done deal aged one week old by the stud who got his dam pregnant so she could feed and care for the foal of a thoroughbred. This is common practice in studs. Thoroughbred mares do not good mothers make, so use a cob mare as a wet nurse - the cob foal becomes disposable.

Yes, there are issues with animal welfare in the Traveller community - but there are equal issues among the settled community. All done behind closed door and gates.

omega man · 31-10-2018 02:12PM

There is absolutely no argument that welfare fraud or animal abuse etc doesn’t take place as much in the so called settled community. The issue here is proportionality with respect to population percentages.

PlaneSpeeking · 31-10-2018 02:14PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes, there are issues with animal welfare in the Traveller community - but there are equal issues among the settled community. All done behind closed door and gates.

Removed the erroneous word there.

ELM327 · 31-10-2018 02:15PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

An elderly little pony I began looking after 5 years ago died this weekend.

He died in a sanctuary surrounded by a herd of other (also rescued) ponies with a vet there and every possible effort, no expense spared, was made to save him.

Lat year I talked his owners into letting me take him out of the field he had spent 10 years in. 10 years of no vet, no equine dentist, no farrier, no worming. His teeth were so bad he was starving.

His owners are one of the largest landowners in a North Cork village.
There are most certainly not Travellers. At no point during the years I looked after their pony did they even offer to cover the price of a bale of hay.

One of the other ( 2 year old) ponies in the Sanctuary was voluntarily surrendered by a young Traveller who had been trying to mind him but realised he was out of this depth.

A 2 year old cob there was sold on done deal aged one week old by the stud who got his dam pregnant so she could feed and care for the foal of a thoroughbred. This is common practice in studs. Thoroughbred mares do not good mothers make, so use a cob mare as a wet nurse - the cob foal becomes disposable.

Yes, there are issues with animal welfare in the Traveller community - but there are equal issues among the settled community. All done behind closed door and gates.

A very sad tale and one which should be investigated by the correct authorities,

But to equate one sorry tale with rampant abuse from travelers to animals is quite frankly wilful ignorance or delusion and I'm not sure which is worse.

Bannasidhe · 31-10-2018 02:20PM

omega man wrote: »

There is absolutely no argument that welfare fraud or animal abuse etc doesn’t take place as much in the so called settled community. The issue here is proportionality with respect to population percentages.

Rubbish.

I've been at the coal face of animal rescue for 6 years. Animal abuse and neglect is endemic in this country and not proportionally greater in any one section of Irish society.
What it is is more visible.

Spanish Eyes · 31-10-2018 02:21PM

I am curious to know if there has been any evaluation of the success or otherwise of financial and other supports given to the Traveller Community?

Has the support for this ethnic minority achieved a decent measure of success yet I wonder?

To me, you can throw any epithets around, and give financial supports to anyone, but unless THEY are willing to change, it is all for nought.

I am sure there are positives, but really out there on the ground it doesn't seem to me that the so called culture of non education and mysoginy will change anytime soon.

I would love to be corrected.

Bannasidhe · 31-10-2018 02:22PM

ELM327 wrote: »

A very sad tale and one which should be investigated by the correct authorities,

But to equate one sorry tale with rampant abuse from travelers to animals is quite frankly wilful ignorance or delusion and I'm not sure which is worse.

It's willful ignorance of the abuse carried out by settled people. Or delusion that "nice" people don't do such things.

Well they do.
Every day.

ELM327 · 31-10-2018 02:25PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's willful ignorance of the abuse carried out by settled people. Or delusion that "nice" people don't do such things.

Well they do.
Every day.

Pro rata at the same rate? Come off it now.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2018 02:41PM

tretorn wrote: »

Are you for real?????

Have you any idea why three hundred thousand people voted for Casey, someone who they never heard of before.
Can you explain why the vote was so high in areas where there are a lot of travellers.
Maybe get on a bus to Rathkeale or Tuam or Longford and pass the time of day eith the locals. You might learn something, you never know, you just might.

Yes I am for real.

There is a reason why exploitative people like Casey will be repudiated by people who can think past their own parish concerns and see a bigger picture.

Rural crime was always present. The man or woman isolated in the countryside last week was just as isolated in the 50's.

What has changed is there for all to see, and tbh doesn't take a populist hate monger like Casey to highlight.

You create a have and have not economy or social order and simultaneously decimate the security infrastructure of the state and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to workout what is going to happen.

All Casey succeeded in doing was to get the chattering lazy ranters going and the conversation is suddenly not about government policy but about a segment of the community partly responsible.
Traveller crime is a 'symptom' not the cause of the problem.

And yes, the subtext of that ^ is that those that voted for Casey are more angry than clever tbh.

Roger Hassenforder · 31-10-2018 02:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I simply don't believe travellers are inherently more disposed to violence as others...

*wipes tears of laughter from eyes.

Dear god, pure gold Francie, fair play!

ELM327 · 31-10-2018 02:51PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes I am for real.

There is a reason why exploitative people like Casey will be repudiated by people who can think past their own parish concerns and see a bigger picture.

Rural crime was always present. The man or woman isolated in the countryside last week was just as isolated in the 50's.

What has changed is there for all to see, and tbh doesn't take a populist hate monger like Casey to highlight.

You create a have and have not economy or social order and simultaneously decimate the security infrastructure of the state and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to workout what is going to happen.

All Casey succeeded in doing was to get the chattering lazy ranters going and the conversation is suddenly not about government policy but about a segment of the community partly responsible.
Traveller crime is a 'symptom' not the cause of the problem.

And yes, the subtext of that ^ is that those that voted for Casey are more angry than clever tbh.

Ignoring some of the nonsense in this post and focusing on the emboldened line.
In the 50's-80's the "tinkers" as they were known then, were welcomed by one and all out the country. I have family near galway and the tinkers would be viewed as handymen that would fix things for you or do odd jobs for cash. Nowadays that doesnt really happen as people don't fix things when they break, they buy new ones. So the old "tinker" doesn't exist and has been usurped by the "modern traveller" who lives on the fringe of society leeching - legally or illegally - off the good men and women of middle ireland. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely why I along with many others in middle Ireland voted for Casey - with no canvassing or promotion.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2018 02:59PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Ignoring some of the nonsense in this post and focusing on the emboldened line.
In the 50's-80's the "tinkers" as they were known then, were welcomed by one and all out the country. I have family near galway and the tinkers would be viewed as handymen that would fix things for you or do odd jobs for cash. Nowadays that doesnt really happen as people don't fix things when they break, they buy new ones. So the old "tinker" doesn't exist and has been usurped by the "modern traveller" who lives on the fringe of society leeching - legally or illegally - off the good men and women of middle ireland. And this, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely why I along with many others in middle Ireland voted for Casey - with no canvassing or promotion.

Please don't indulge in the 'great silence' - the fact is the 'traveller' still makes his living (and it seems to be a very good one in some cases) dealing with the settled community.
Somebody is buying the stuff they traverse the countryside with as they have always done.

No doubt there are some that have taken the 'shortcuts' to profit that many in the settled community have taken and continue to take.
The history of the travellers that you outlined (and which I am aware of too) tends to suggest I am right that there is nothing inherently violent in them.
*I think the previous poster rubbishing that idea might be struggling to understand what 'inherent' means.

ELM327 · 31-10-2018 03:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Please don't indulge in the 'great silence' - the fact is the 'traveller' still makes his living (and it seems to be a very good one in some cases) dealing with the settled community.
Somebody is buying the stuff they traverse the countryside with as they have always done.

No doubt there are some that have taken the 'shortcuts' to profit that many in the settled community have taken and continue to take.
The history of the travellers that you outlined (and which I am aware of too) tends to suggest I am right that there is nothing inherently violent in them.
*I think the previous poster rubbishing that idea might be struggling to understand what 'inherent' means.

Nothing inherently violent?
That's like saying guns have nothing inherently violent as they used to be just metal. Silly.

Travellers 50 years ago are nothing like they are these days.

Cina · 31-10-2018 03:03PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Please don't indulge in the 'great silence' - the fact is the 'traveller' still makes his living (and it seems to be a very good one in some cases) dealing with the settled community.
Somebody is buying the stuff they traverse the countryside with as they have always done.

No doubt there are some that have taken the 'shortcuts' to profit that many in the settled community have taken and continue to take.
The history of the travellers that you outlined (and which I am aware of too) tends to suggest I am right that there is nothing inherently violent in them.
*I think the previous poster rubbishing that idea might be struggling to understand what 'inherent' means.

You have got to be kidding.

Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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