Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

Uncharted · 29-10-2018 09:03PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

How can you educate yourself by watching a clearly biased documentary?

You obviously haven't watched it either....

:pac:

enfant terrible · 29-10-2018 09:06PM

Checkmate19 wrote: »

If people think a jury gets it right. Have a look how many convictions the innocent projects have got overturned

How many don't get overturned?

RocketRaccoon · 29-10-2018 09:09PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

For the most part?

Yourself and walshb really are hilarious.

Its like someone watching 1 episode of breaking bad or the wire and deciding its crap based on just that despite not watching everything available.

walshb · 29-10-2018 09:10PM

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Yourself and walshb really are hilarious.

Its like someone watching 1 episode of breaking bad or the wire and deciding its crap based on just that despite not watching everything available.

Nobody said it’s crap, just biased...

You think it’s balanced and impartial and straight down the middle? Not leaning to an acquittal/defense view?

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 09:15PM

walshb wrote: »

Nobody said it’s crap, just biased...

You think it’s balanced and impartial and straight down the middle? Not leaning to an acquittal/defense view?

But no one said you had to buy into it all !

I don't buy into it all, I'm unsure about some things KZ points at, I'm unsure whether I think the two guys are innocent or guilty.

I'm pretty sure some things were tampered with, I'm very sure the investigation was very poorly led and executed, and I'm 100% sure Kratz is a narcissistic and slimy asshole.

patsman07 · 29-10-2018 09:17PM

Zellner's theory is that the killer planted Steven Avery's blood in the car. Cops subsequently found the car and had it moved to the junkyard. Why would this be necessary if Avery's blood was in the car?

walshb · 29-10-2018 09:17PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But no one said you had to buy into it all !

I don't buy into it all, I'm unsure about some things KZ points at, I'm unsure whether I think the two guys are innocent or guilty.

I'm pretty sure some things were tampered with, I'm very sure the investigation was very poorly led and executed, and I'm 100% sure Kratz is a narcissistic and slimy asshole.

Fair points. I’ll watch season II and give my honest view. No issue changing my opinion. After season 1 and with what I read up on I am confident that they have the right men...

walshb · 29-10-2018 09:19PM

patsman07 wrote: »

Zellner's theory is that the killer planted Steven Avery's blood in the car. Cops subsequently found the car and had it moved to the junkyard. Why would this be necessary if Avery's blood was in the car?

I guess to make the case against him stronger..?

Unless the cops are the killers?

Jessica Fletcher couldn’t come up with as much bull!

RocketRaccoon · 29-10-2018 09:19PM

I've asked this to another poster.
I'll now ask walshb and Tipsy

"If Steven did rape, shoot and murder Teresa that afternoon/early evening. Why did he then throw her in the boot of her car, drive her around for a bit and then return to burn her? Then remove her car which was spotted by a member of the public, it was called in by Colburn only to then bring it back to his yard and cover it with tarp and branches?"

walshb · 29-10-2018 09:21PM

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I've asked this to another poster.
I'll now ask walshb and Tipsy

"If Steven did rape, shoot and murder Teresa that afternoon/early evening. Why did he then throw her in the boot of her car, drive her around for a bit and then return to burn her? Then remove her car which was spotted by a member of the public, it was called in by Colburn only to then bring it back to his yard and cover it with tarp and branches?"

Ask him....

Not sure why this scenario cannot be a possibility...

He killed her...what he did is what he did..

His choice...

drkpower · 29-10-2018 09:22PM

There is a whole lot of inconstencies in the prosecution’s case, enough for reasonable doubt in my view (both in respect of the issues presented at the first trail, and those raised in the second series).

But be careful of accepting what has been raised in the second series, given we are being presented with one sided version of events. That has to be treated with a healthy dose of skepticism.

In much the same way as if the prosecution commissioned a series, populated it with their experts, and narrative; we would be right to withhold judgment on that also.

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 09:27PM

walshb wrote: »

Fair points. I’ll watch season II and give my honest view. No issue changing my opinion. After season 1 and with what I read up on I am confident that they have the right men...

I'm just starting to watch it again. I have to, I have to shake it out of my system. Might skim a bit alright as it takes time.

It opens with exactly all the doubts and objections you have to it. It literally opens with how biased the documentary was, how it left out some evidence, etc... It validates everything you seem to think about it to start with.

drkpower · 29-10-2018 09:27PM

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I've asked this to another poster.
I'll now ask walshb and Tipsy

"If Steven did rape, shoot and murder Teresa that afternoon/early evening. Why did he then throw her in the boot of her car, drive her around for a bit and then return to burn her? Then remove her car which was spotted by a member of the public, it was called in by Colburn only to then bring it back to his yard and cover it with tarp and branches?"

I don’t really believe that narrative, but it is plausible.

Perhaps he initially planned to bury her off his property;packed body into the car, and off he went to find a suitable place in the quarry, couldn’t find a suitable location, and then reverted to plan B;.burn the body. It’s not an outlandish theory.

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 09:31PM

patsman07 wrote: »

Zellner's theory is that the killer planted Steven Avery's blood in the car. Cops subsequently found the car and had it moved to the junkyard. Why would this be necessary if Avery's blood was in the car?

They didn't know his blood was in the car, they just found the car.

retro:electro · 29-10-2018 09:36PM

patsman07 wrote: »

Zellner's theory is that the killer planted Steven Avery's blood in the car. Cops subsequently found the car and had it moved to the junkyard. Why would this be necessary if Avery's blood was in the car?

My understanding is that Zellner feels the cops had a hunch Avery did it as she was last seen on his property. They just didn’t have anything on him and so had to make it fit. The car was found off the property (as stated by a witness in season 2) then called in by Colburn (as seen in season 1) then subsequently moved back to Avery’s yard (which was by now out of bounds) and cops had access to his trailer where he had recently bled into his sink. It’s her theory that the cops then transferred his blood from the sink to the car when the car was moved back to the yard.
Am willing to be corrected on that if it’s inaccurate.

Tipsy McSwagger · 29-10-2018 10:03PM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I'm just starting to watch it again. I have to, I have to shake it out of my system. Might skim a bit alright as it takes time.

It opens with exactly all the doubts and objections you have to it. It literally opens with how biased the documentary was, how it left out some evidence, etc... It validates everything you seem to think about it to start with.

I’ll watch the first episode tomorrow. I would much prefer a 2 hour documentary made by someone like Errol Morris tbh, these Netflix documentaries are just too drawn out.

patsman07 · 29-10-2018 10:05PM

retro:electro wrote: »

My understanding is that Zellner feels the cops had a hunch Avery did it as she was last seen on his property. They just didn’t have anything on him and so had to make it fit. The car was found off the property (as stated by a witness in season 2) then called in by Colburn (as seen in season 1) then subsequently moved back to Avery’s yard (which was by now out of bounds) and cops had access to his trailer where he had recently bled into his sink. It’s her theory that the cops then transferred his blood from the sink to the car when the car was moved back to the yard.
Am willing to be corrected on that if it’s inaccurate.

I'm open to correction too, but I thought Zellner stated that the killer must have planted the blood and it had to be someone who knew that Steven had cut his finger that day. I also thought that she said that the cops had the car moved to the scrapyard because they knew it was Steven's blood? Although I cant understand why they would risk doing that if they already had proof it was his blood.

walshb · 29-10-2018 10:08PM

And there is no credible evidence to show that the cops planted the blood and/or moved the car..so, if it wasn’t the cops, who was it?

deco nate · 29-10-2018 10:11PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Troll? Someone has a different opinion than you and you resort to calling them a troll. There seems to be a gang mentality in this thread where you turn on someone, call them names and then all jerk each other off.

I don't think that is it, the poster has said they only watched the first season, and is only posting his/her views from that.

Season 2 is over now and people are calling him/her out that, the thread is far advanced than that poster's comments.

He/she was asked to watch the 2nd season and then come back and post*.

Btw, I am amazed that so much detail was missed out by his previous lawyers.

* paraphrasing*

Uncharted · 29-10-2018 10:11PM

walshb wrote: »

And there is no credible evidence to show that the cops planted the blood and/or moved the car..so, if it wasn’t the cops, who was it?

Ah here!!! Watch the damn show ffs!!!!!!

Blanco100 · 29-10-2018 10:27PM

walshb wrote: »

Ask him....

Not sure why this scenario cannot be a possibility...

He killed her...what he did is what he did..

His choice...

Walshb you really do amuse me. No matter what the topic is you really enjoy playing the contrarion, you will take the less popular view every single time

If even half the inconsistencies are incorrect as laid out by Zellner then it raises reasonable doubt at the very least.

Not enough credence given to the fact he was knee deep in suing the state also, so he was definitely a marked man 100%.

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 10:30PM

patsman07 wrote: »

I'm open to correction too, but I thought Zellner stated that the killer must have planted the blood and it had to be someone who knew that Steven had cut his finger that day. I also thought that she said that the cops had the car moved to the scrapyard because they knew it was Steven's blood? Although I cant understand why they would risk doing that if they already had proof it was his blood.

Yeah I think I remember her saying that towards the end of the season. I'm not convinced by that criss-crossing of planting evidence, some by the killer, some by the cops.

I think the cops after finding the car went searching the quarry, found the bones there, planted the bones at Avery's, and planted the blood in the car.

Ryan Hillegas possibly helped.

Cops returned to the trailer after hours for some other reason (possibly planting something else or collecting something) and happened upon the blood in the bathroom. Any cop a bit versed in forensics would see the value in collecting blood. They also took the toothbrush I think. Maybe that's what they were after, DNA.

Field east · 29-10-2018 10:38PM

Checkmate19 wrote: »

It happens regularly

walshb wrote: »

I’ll try watch it...

But many many were convinced after a few biased episodes of season 1...

Folks, the show is designed and made and created to try and sway people to believe that the men were framed. It is NOT balanced..it has its own agenda..

A number of posters have referred to the documentary to date as bias towards the defense and somewhat unbalanced.
Would it not be the case that the defense through this documentary and the groundwork being done is trying to ‘ rebalance’ a situation that apparently has ended up as being very unbalanced in favor of the prosecution . Especially if there is any truth in the very sloppy and the very unprofessional way the overall way the investigation was carried out.
Also the key to S Avery’s conviction was the core of Brendan’s confession re what happened in S Avery’s bedroom. Once the prosecution had this essential jigsaw piece it was then able to build the whole case around it.
PLEASE see post no 1630. The documentary made absolutely zilch reference - either from the defense or prosecution - to the Kiss The Girls book

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 10:52PM

Field east wrote: »

PLEASE see post no 1630. The documentary made absolutely zilch reference - either from the defense or prosecution - to the Kiss The Girls book

I wonder where I heard it then. It was definitely Brendan himself saying it. And I'm kind of thinking it was in an official interview sort of situation, not interview with the media.

Oh, I know sure, it was in his testimony in the trial. https://www.bustle.com/articles/133445-kiss-the-girls-vs-brendan-dasseys-confession-could-he-have-been-inspired-by-the-book

marklazarcovic · 29-10-2018 11:04PM

Imagine if it turned out that Brendan was a keyzer soze, or the stutterer from primal fear,and it was in fact him who did it all ..omg.

RocketRaccoon · 29-10-2018 11:08PM

walshb wrote: »

Ask him....

Not sure why this scenario cannot be a possibility...

He killed her...what he did is what he did..

His choice...

Raped, shot, murdered a woman.
Shoved her into the boot of her own car.
Drove around the area
Decided to come back to his yard and burn the body
Drove away again and poorly stashed the car despite the fact he could easily have crushed it in his own salvage yard
A few days later, collect the car and bring it to his yard and store it embarrassingly poorly.

Ya, sounds legit.

mikeym · 29-10-2018 11:09PM

Im in the middle of watching Part 2 of Making A Murderer and Wow.

Ken Kratz is some attention seeker.

He has the cheek to release a book on the case and make up stories about Steven Avery, hes delusional.

Mam of 4 · 29-10-2018 11:20PM

mikeym wrote: »

Im in the middle of watching Part 2 of Making A Murderer and Wow.

Ken Kratz is some attention seeker.

He has the cheek to release a book on the case and make up stories about Steven Avery, hes delusional.

He is a vile , obnoxious , smug , person .

From holding the press conference in Series1 , to his talks , book, making money off SA's back in the second series , he's despicable imo .

Uncharted · 29-10-2018 11:24PM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

He is a vile , obnoxious , smug , person .
From holding the press conference in Series1 , to his talks , book, making money off SA's back in the second series , he's despicable imo .

A total narcissistic prìck. You should see his Twitter. Pure delusion. His partners is a treasure trove too.

:rolleyes:

Mountainsandh · 29-10-2018 11:50PM

Uncharted wrote: »

A total narcissistic prìck. You should see his Twitter. Pure delusion. His partners is a treasure trove too.

:rolleyes:

I was looking at that too today ! Did you see the pictures he posts of her on his twitter ? "look ! look at her breast ! look at how young she is !(he makes sure to squeeze that in when he says she wasn't born at the time of something) and she is with ME ! "

He's really really mentally sick imo. Really at the extreme end of narcissism. I read somewhere too that he boasted he had a torture chamber in his house, that he was into bdsm, although that could all be BS of course, that's purely Reddit gossip, but I think it would tie in nicely with what we see of him, personally.

I think where he really showed how sick he is, the best evidence we have that he is completely consumed by his own longing to display and exert power, is when he gave that press conference. It was just so completely wrong legally, and morally, on so many levels (Brendan, Teresa's family) but he opted to do it for his gratification. I find it really hard to watch, beyond the horror of the narrative, it's like he was masturbating to his own image in public. Just my opinion and perception of course.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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