Opel: The new Fiat?

ba_barabus · 28-10-2018 11:25PM #1

Had a good chat with a friend today about Opel. Both of us have owned them in the past and would have considered them up until recently. The current range seems to have flat lined however. Corsa is ancient but due a change. If the rest of the recent replacements are anything to go by that'll miss the mark however. The Adam, Karl, Astra, Insignia and the SUV range have all been poor in either quality, packaging or sales.

PSA since taking over have gotten cold feet after finding out about emissions fines and poor profitability in Opel. Models based on their platforms seem to be flat lining regarding sales. As the Astra and Insignia aren't on their platforms they're not pushing them much.

So what is the future for Opel? If the current sales decline continues it'll go the way of Fiat here a few years back, from a sales leader to a nobody.

Arthur Daley · 28-10-2018 11:39PM

It has been coming for years. Since the 80s really. Opel were big sellers here from the 60s to the 90s, but the products where very boring from the mid 80s onwards after cars like the Manta and Ascona were phased out. GM made such a mess of their european business.

PSA may stabilise it, but it will be just another variant of the same platform, to ensure they keep share in Germany.

bazz26 · 28-10-2018 11:42PM

The Adam and Karl are no more, both models discontinued now.

The rest of the range is just marmite, there is nothing there that stands out from the crowd or brings anything unique to their segment. Too much good competition out there these days, selling bland inferior metal primarily to rental companies and fleet managers at large discounts is as good as it gets for Opel these days.

ba_barabus · 28-10-2018 11:47PM

bazz26 wrote: »

The Adam and Karl are no more, both models discontinued now.

The rest of the range is just marmite, there is nothing there that stands out from the crowd or brings anything unique to their segment. Too much good competition out there these days, selling bland inferior metal primarily to rental companies and fleet managers at large discounts is as good as it gets for Opel these days.

I did see somewhere that PSA had stopped all that. It would certainly explain why I'm seeing very few newly registered cars. In terms of them being marmite cars I could always see a reason to like them but the new Insignia looks awkward as does the new SUV models, well, they're more bland than anything else.

I'm wondering are they being discounted at this stage to try shift them to private buyers.

ba_barabus · 28-10-2018 11:49PM

Arthur Daley wrote: »

It has been coming for years. Since the 80s really. Opel were big sellers here from the 60s to the 90s, but the products where very boring from the mid 80s onwards after cars like the Manta and Ascona were phased out. GM made such a mess of their european business.

PSA may stabilise it, but it will be just another variant of the same platform, to ensure they keep share in Germany.

I'd say the rot has almost gone terminal in the last 2 years. The older Astra sold well as did the Corsa. Insignia too. But as it's all been replaced sales have just dried up.

JoeA3 · 29-10-2018 12:10AM

They were regularly top of the sales charts here right up to the mid-late 1990’s. They were an Irish family car staple, the Astra / Vectra were probably neck and neck with the Corolla / Avensis in sales terms I’d say.
But that’s 30 years ago and they’re stalled ever since. Generally mediocre to awful cars, awful packaging. The Korean brands, not to mention the likes of Skoda have completely blown them out of the water while Opel stands still. I can’t think of a single model in their lineup that could be worth a mention.

Outkast_IRE · 29-10-2018 12:16AM

An uncle of mine works for a garage that have Opel and Honda on the same forecourt. He said the amount of big and small issues on the Opel's is astounding plenty of gearbox and clutch replacement in cars only a few years old. The Honda's look bullet proof in comparison , very few issues .

bazz26 · 29-10-2018 12:27AM

I'd say sponsorship of the Irish soccer team back in the 1980s and 1990s had a good bit to do with their popularity here at the time too.

tossy · 29-10-2018 07:35AM

Who remembers the world cup '90 edition of the Kadett ? I think the stuck world cup stickers on the front wings and gave you colour coded bumpers.

darragh o meara · 29-10-2018 07:58AM

tossy wrote: »

Who remembers the world cup '90 edition of the Kadett ? I think the stuck world cup stickers on the front wings and gave you colour coded bumpers.

A chap in my town had one up til very recently, great little car.

redcup342 · 29-10-2018 09:06AM

Opel Mocha is a terrible car, while its seems quite big the space on the inside is awful, it's like a reverse tardis.

Ride quality is terrible, you feel every bump in the road and the center of gravity is too high, steering lacks any sort of meaningful feed back.

The quality of the interior is awful, plasticy as hell. Ford are way ahead of them.

bigroad · 29-10-2018 09:23AM

That have got a bit boring in the last few years.
Pity because the Omega,Vectra,were very good cars.
I think they need some excitement in their range.
What about a new manta rwd .

jacksie66 · 29-10-2018 10:20AM

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Wildly Boaring · 29-10-2018 10:24AM

Title is harsh on Fiat

500 better seller than any Opel Europe wide I'd hazard.

Leonard Hofstadter · 29-10-2018 10:27AM

Apparently they made a profit of €502 million earlier this year. They can't be doing too badly from that point of view.

Presumably as more and more cars switch to PSA running gear those numbers will only improve further.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/ap-psa-succeeds-where-gm-failed-making-opel-profitable-2018-7

Avatar MIA · 29-10-2018 10:29AM

jacksie66 wrote: »

Vectra was far from good. I had nothing but issues with my Vectra B I had over 10 years ago and the Vectra c last year.

And not much luck apparently with your other Opel, Saab 9-3*

* which I also owned once upon a time.

A great car.

jacksie66 · 29-10-2018 10:34AM

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galvo_clare · 29-10-2018 11:39AM

I had the Ascona Cup from 1986. Bought it in ‘89 from a friend and loved that car. Brought me to college and was always the coolest car in the car park.
All white, wide (185mm!) tyres, Recaro seats and door cards in Opel’s silver/grey/yellow colours.
Put a lot of miles on it and the only trouble towards the end was a ht lead causing a misfire.
No power steering so a monumentally heavy wheel to turn.
Probably scrapped now but if you ever see 747 WIE. It was mine.

tossy wrote: »

Who remembers the world cup '90 edition of the Kadett ? I think the stuck world cup stickers on the front wings and gave you colour coded bumpers.

porsche boy · 29-10-2018 01:04PM

If you have the view that what is being sold now is the product of design & planning from nearly a decade ago you can see how GM didnt invest & manage it properly and sold up as the cracks began to show. It's not that dissimilar to how they ruined SAAB with half finished development and half arsed planning. PSA are aligning Opel models with whatever they can share platforms in the future, reducing cost... economies of scale etc. Will it work work though???

colm_mcm · 29-10-2018 02:36PM

Saab was a basket case though. It’s easy blame GM for their demise, but they were unlikely to survive whilst retaining their way of doing things - with or without GM.
Maybe VW would have bought them and we might have yet another version of the Tiguan to choose from.

theoneeyedman · 29-10-2018 02:59PM

Are opel even German anymore really?

Their ads proclaim their German-Ness repeatedly, but isn't a lot of their manufacturing in Spain and Eastern Europe, and of course are French owned. Is there much of a German presence at all?

Arthur Daley · 29-10-2018 03:33PM

They are down circa 400,000 Europe wide vs the 1.3million they sold in 2007.

But up to the end of 2017, Opel/Vauxhall sales across Europe at 935,000 haven't tailed off that badly this decade, since 2010, when they sold 1.007 million.

They were up in 2017 935,000 vs 2013 824,000 for instance. Can't separate Opel and Vauxhall sales stats, but they are likely to trend the same way.

tossy · 29-10-2018 03:35PM

galvo_clare wrote: »

I had the Ascona Cup from 1986. Bought it in ‘89 from a friend and loved that car. Brought me to college and was always the coolest car in the car park.
All white, wide (185mm!) tyres, Recaro seats and door cards in Opel’s silver/grey/yellow colours.
Put a lot of miles on it and the only trouble towards the end was a ht lead causing a misfire.
No power steering so a monumentally heavy wheel to turn.
Probably scrapped now but if you ever see 747 WIE. It was mine.

The ascona or the mantra are probably the last Opel cars to age well.

Hellrazer · 29-10-2018 04:54PM

Ive worked for both franchises and believe me Fiats are more reliable than Opel--that really is saying something.

DaveyDave · 29-10-2018 05:16PM

redcup342 wrote: »

Opel Mocha is a terrible car, while its seems quite big the space on the inside is awful, it's like a reverse tardis.

Ride quality is terrible, you feel every bump in the road and the center of gravity is too high, steering lacks any sort of meaningful feed back.

The quality of the interior is awful, plasticy as hell. Ford are way ahead of them.

You took the words right out of my mouth. It's the worst car I've driven and considering it's not even cheap there's no excuse for it. Considering the bulky crossover shape there's no headroom and zero room at all in the rear for an adult. Everything is cheap plastic and rattly and that's made even worse by the rough suspension. Despite being on large profile tyres and small wheels you'll feel every bump. There's things I haven't felt driving other cars that the Mokka picks up. Then there's the torque steer which you will encounter quite a bit as you need to work for the power and once you go above 2,500 revs in the petrol it will be screaming at you

Can't comment on any other Opel models but I can't see them being any better.

nc6000 · 29-10-2018 05:40PM

bazz26 wrote:

The Adam and Karl are no more, both models discontinued now.

Strange choice of model names.

ba_barabus · 29-10-2018 05:53PM

nc6000 wrote: »

Strange choice of model names.

Historical references to the founders of Opel. Rubbish cars though

maddness · 29-10-2018 06:41PM

Opel used to make some great cars in the 80’s and even some good ones into the 90’s but have been getting worse and worse. I worked for an Opel dealer for a couple of years nearly 20 years ago now and even then the new models were nothing special. The first model Vectra was a nice car but the second one launched in about 2001/02 was awful really.
Shame as I liked the brand.

porsche boy · 29-10-2018 09:34PM

colm_mcm wrote:

Saab was a basket case though. Itâ€™s easy blame GM for their demise, but they were unlikely to survive whilst retaining their way of doing things - with or without GM. Maybe VW would have bought them and we might have yet another version of the Tiguan to choose from.

Easy now!!! SAAB's ethos was safety first and it showed in the crash tests which were usually ahead of competitors, it also cost lots of money but that's what they did. (Google 'Elk Test')

It was a difficult trading environment when it went down but GM caused problem after problem when Spyker cars were trying to breath life back into SAAB and further more law suits & litigation when NEVS was trying to get it back.

I'm still bitter about it... fuggin love my SAAB's

alias no.9 · 29-10-2018 09:41PM

redcup342 wrote: »

Opel Mocha is a terrible car, while its seems quite big the space on the inside is awful, it's like a reverse tardis.

Ride quality is terrible, you feel every bump in the road and the center of gravity is too high, steering lacks any sort of meaningful feed back.

The quality of the interior is awful, plasticy as hell. Ford are way ahead of them.

A like for like comparison would pitch the Ford Ecosport against the Mokka X, not much for either manufacturer to be proud of.

colm_mcm · 29-10-2018 10:01PM

To be fair to the Mokka, it’s nowhere near as bad as the Ecosport.

Opel: The new Fiat?

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