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Dogs and babies

2

Comments

  • #32
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    What are you basing your danger factor on??t
    My take away is you are ignorant to animal behaviour.
    Will anything change your mind or are you looking for validation.
    I suspect validation is the driving factor.

    If not, let's discuss.

    Really.....

    Here's what we know :

    1) it's a rescue dog
    2) it's being rehabilitated but it's unclear for what.

    I'm basing the danger factor on the fact I don't know what the dog is being rehabilitated for and I thought I pointed that out quite clearly.

    My mind doesn't need changing, I'm more than passingly familiar with the unpredictable nature of badly abused animals, there's one asleep on the couch next to me. But it's taken years of persistent work to get him to the stage where I do trust him around my kids and I still wouldn't trust him around a baby.

    Because both abused animals and young children are unpredictable.


  • #33
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    Really.....

    Here's what we know :

    1) it's a rescue dog
    2) it's being rehabilitated but it's unclear for what.

    I'm basing the danger factor on the fact I don't know what the dog is being rehabilitated for and I thought I pointed that out quite clearly.

    My mind doesn't need changing, I'm more than passingly familiar with the unpredictable nature of badly abused animals, there's one asleep on the couch next to me. But it's taken years of persistent work to get him to the stage where I do trust him around my kids and I still wouldn't trust him around a baby.

    Because both abused animals and young children are unpredictable.

    And where was it indicated the dog was abused?
    It's a rescue,


  • #34
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    Really.....

    Here's what we know :

    1) it's a rescue dog
    2) it's being rehabilitated but it's unclear for what.

    I'm basing the danger factor on the fact I don't know what the dog is being rehabilitated for and I thought I pointed that out quite clearly.

    My mind doesn't need changing, I'm more than passingly familiar with the unpredictable nature of badly abused animals, there's one asleep on the couch next to me. But it's taken years of persistent work to get him to the stage where I do trust him around my kids and I still wouldn't trust him around a baby.

    Because both abused animals and young children are unpredictable.

    And where was it indicated the dog was abused?
    It's a rescue which doesn't mean abused.
    I'm also going to make the leap that the parent does not wish the child to be in any danger (massive leap I know) so if they feel comfortable with the dog being around the baby why should the OP feel any different?
    We are basically validating that the OP knows better from a few pictures than the parent


  • #35
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    And where was it indicated the dog was abused?
    It's a rescue,
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    A friend of mine has recently given birth to a baby girl. She also has a rescue dog that she's rehabilitating.
    wexie wrote: »
    Few red flags for me here to be honest, rehabilitating from what exactly? If it's any kind of abuse then the dog cannot and should not be trusted with a child other than under close supervision.



    Do try reading the posts before you wade in Seanie


  • #36
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Should babies ever be left alone with dogs?
    Was the baby taking the photo with a selfie stick? Otherwise the kid & dog were not alone...


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  • #37
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seannash wrote: »
    And statistics would show it's not in any danger what so ever.
    So...............

    Statistics show dogs never attack children?


  • #38
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    Do try reading the posts before you wade in Seanie

    So you are stating that all your advice hinges on the dog being previously abused.

    So if we can prove it wasn't we can disregard your advice
    Great


  • #39
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Statistics show dogs never attack children?

    In comparison to adults yes the number of dog attacks versus attacks from humans is very low


  • #40
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    So you are stating that all your advice hinges on the dog being previously abused.

    So if we can prove it wasn't we can disregard your advice
    Great

    No my advice is that I would reserve judgement until someone told me more about what the dog in question is being rehabilitated for.


  • #41
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seannash wrote: »
    And where was it indicated the dog was abused?
    It's a rescue,

    It was abused unfortunately.


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  • #42
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    It was abused unfortunately.

    Talk to Sean, he's an expert in animal behaviour and will be able to tell you all about what to do

    :rolleyes:


  • #43
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    No my advice is that I would reserve judgement until someone told me more about what the dog in question is being rehabilitated for.

    So why didn't you state that


  • #44
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    Talk to Sean, he's an expert in animal behaviour and will be able to tell you all about what to do

    :rolleyes:

    And what if I am.
    I've already stated that the parent is responsible and certainly knows better than someone who judges a photo from Facebook.
    Would this not be a true statement.
    Everyone is exceptionally quick to overreact based off of one snapshot in time.


  • #45
    BeerWolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    NEVER leave a young child or baby alone with any animal...

    Not a difficult concept to grasp, yet plenty do... And their idiocy can have dire consequences.

    And then people have the gall to blame it on the animal should that happen.


  • #46
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    So why didn't you state that

    You mean like I did in my very first post in this thread when I questioned what the dog was being rehabilitated for? And then said : if....it is any kind of abuse?

    I think perhaps for me the clue to start asking questions was in the words "rehabilitating" and "fostering".

    But I'm sure that's down to my lack of experience and insight in animal behaviour....


  • #47
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seannash wrote: »
    In comparison to adults yes the number of dog attacks versus attacks from humans is very low

    Indeed but it happens and it's completely unpredictable with an abused dog.


  • #48
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    And what if I am.

    No offence but you clearly aren't.

    You may well think you are, but I guess I can't help with that.


  • #49
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    You mean like I did in my very first post in this thread when I questioned what the dog was being rehabilitated for? And then said : if....it is any kind of abuse?

    I think perhaps for me the clue to start asking questions was in the words "rehabilitating" and "fostering".

    But I'm sure that's down to my lack of experience and insight in animal behaviour....
    My point is why did you reach for all the negative possibilities from the begining


  • #50
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    No offence but you clearly aren't.

    You may well think you are, but I guess I can't help with that.

    I never claimed I was, I'm saying what makes your point of view more valid than others.
    Several posters have claimed real world experience yet your advice trump's all there's.

    Statistics would show that rehabilitated dogs don't pose a threat.
    Now absolutely everything poses a threat to an Infant. It's up the parent to decide what's acceptable.
    We are now validating someone's opinion on a potential risk from a picture versus a parent judgement


  • #51
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    My point is why did you reach for all the negative possibilities from the begining

    Because of the word 'rehabilitating'

    People don't 'rehabilitate' dogs that don't have issues.

    Dog's that don't have issues don't need rehabilitating

    Like I said in the first post it's a red flag.

    Even if the dog wasn't being rehabilitated for abuse but for a physical issue or illness it would still be a red flag because dogs that are in pain are (again) unpredictable.

    Happy well adjusted dogs that are family members can usually be trusted around kids and children.

    But happy well adjusted dogs don't need 'rehabilitating'.

    In short, whenever the word rehabilitating is used in reference to a dog (and especially a rescue dog) it is always a red flag or at the very least a reason to ask more questions. There are no exceptions, no ifs, no buts.


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  • #52
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I think its cruel to the dog, babies obviously mean no harm but can put dogs under stress as theyre often very rough with them. My dog gets very visibly stressed whenever children are around as they start dragging out of her and pulling at her from all angles so I just take her away

    And this puts the baby at risk too , neither the dog nor baby have a bit of bad in them but the baby could turn out seriously injuredor worse and the dog could end up put down


  • #53
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    I never claimed I was, I'm saying what makes your point of view more valid than others.
    Several posters have claimed real world experience yet your advice trump's all there's.

    Those are your words, not mine, I was asked for advice and gave it.
    seannash wrote: »
    Statistics would show that rehabilitated dogs don't pose a threat.

    rehabilitated ≠ rehabilitating

    seannash wrote: »
    We are now validating someone's opinion on a potential risk from a picture versus a parent judgement

    Many parents know sweet fuck all about kids, never mind dogs, never mind dogs with a history of abuse.


    And I don't know where you get these stats stating that rehabilitated dogs don't pose a danger but I would take them with a very sizable grain of salt. Abuse can leave psychological scars on dogs just as it does on people. It makes it even harder to deal with in dogs because they can't tell you the nature of a the abuse, they can't explain what happened.

    I have worked with dogs (one of mine) that has an inexplicable dislike to huskies and any husky type dogs, he goes nuts when he sees one. I've also worked with a dog that would go ballistic at men with ginger beards (that one was easy to figure out I guess).

    But I guess perhaps we're going by a different meaning of the word rehabilitating, perhaps you think that someone taking in a rescue dog is rehabilitating them?
    If that is the case I can assure you that those are 2 very very different things.


  • #54
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    wexie wrote: »
    Because of the word 'rehabilitating'

    People don't 'rehabilitate' dogs that don't have issues.

    Dog's that don't have issues don't need rehabilitating

    Like I said in the first post it's a red flag.

    Even if the dog wasn't being rehabilitated for abuse but for a physical issue or illness it would still be a red flag because dogs that are in pain are (again) unpredictable.

    Happy well adjusted dogs that are family members can usually be trusted around kids and children.

    But happy well adjusted dogs don't need 'rehabilitating'.

    In short, whenever the word rehabilitating is used in reference to a dog (and especially a rescue dog) it is always a red flag or at the very least a reason to ask more questions. There are no exceptions, no ifs, no buts.

    Having worked with foster dogs, rehabilitation is a common phrase to describe everything from rehoming, fostering and kennelling. We assume that them being surrendered means they need to be rehabilitated from the trauma of surrendering
    Not always true.

    To my original point, why does the op think he knows better than the parent who lives with this dog


  • #55
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    As stated the op has his answer and several others that don't validate his viewpoint. I guess it's for them to decide


  • #56
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    Having worked with foster dogs, rehabilitation is a common phrase to describe everything from rehoming, fostering and kennelling. We assume that them being surrendered means they need to be rehabilitated from the trauma of surrendering
    Not always true.

    Like I pointed out to you above, that is not what that word means.


  • #57
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    seannash wrote: »
    As stated the op has his answer and several others that don't validate his viewpoint. I guess it's for them to decide

    Let's say the dog is lovely, what happens if the dog is provoked by the kid? The parents sometimes leave the dog and kid alond in the room.


  • #58
    Immortal Starlight
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Immortal Starlight


    I’d never leave a baby alone beside a dog. It only takes a second for something there’s no coming back from to happen. Your baby should be the most important little person in your life so why take the chance.


  • #59
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Chinasea wrote: »
    I applaud her for getting a rescue dog.

    So do I. He's a lovely dog but I wouldn't leave a baby alone with it.


  • #60
    seannash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,665 ✭✭✭seannash


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Let's say the dog is lovely, what happens if the dog is provoked by the kid? The parents sometimes leave the dog and kid alond in the room.

    This statement is true for all dogs left with children, for which there have been countless times that have passed without incident.

    Ultimately the point I'm making us you are taking the extreme view. Yes the danger is there but it would be highly unlikely for it to happen.


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  • #61
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,478 ✭✭✭wexie


    seannash wrote: »
    Ultimately the point I'm making us you are taking the extreme view. Yes the danger is there but it would be highly unlikely for it to happen.

    ....So let me get this right?

    If you had a small baby (I'm going to guess that you don't) and see a potential but remote danger to it, a danger you can turn from remote into none very easily.

    You think that taking that action is extreme?

    Little things like not leaving medicine around the house, it's unlikely the child will be able to open them right?

    Or getting an approved car seat? "I've never had an accident before, the odds are minuscule'?

    Or getting a fire guard? I mean chances are baby won't actually climb in the fire after all.


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