Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

tretorn · 22-10-2018 03:07PM

But the do gooders are on the payroll so its in their interests to keep travellers infantile.

Gwen Cooper · 22-10-2018 03:08PM

Gravelly wrote: »

This is exactly it - easy to keep the women obedient, and the sons into the "family business" if they have no other prospects, and think that "culture" is the be all and end all.
If all traveller children got the education they are supposedly entitled to, the traveller lifestyle would be gone in a generation, and nobody would be looking for ethnic status. The do-gooders that help keep traveller children and women ignorant serfs are responsible for this.

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

Gravelly · 22-10-2018 03:11PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

Yes, but like many of our laws, when travellers break that law, they need "help" and "support" because going to school isn't "part of their culture" (like paying tax, insuring their vehicles, paying for their own accommodation etc.) so they are rarely if ever prosecuted.

tretorn · 22-10-2018 03:16PM

There are laws Gwen but the travellers dont bother obeying them for the most part.

Lots of people who dont travel wouldnt obey laws if there was no consequence but unfortuneatly when you have an address you can be found at there will be consequences if you dont obey the law.

I doubt if anyone actually knows how many traveller children there are. I was told recently a traveller family brought a child for baptism and that was grand, priest did the usual. The priest was asked to stand in for another priest in an adjoining parish and the same family turned up again with the same child to be baptised. This means the child has to baptisimal certs, now why would anyone want two baptisimal certs, there must be some sort of fraud that can be carried out if you have two baptisimal certs for one child.

sbsquarepants · 22-10-2018 03:16PM

Nekarsulm wrote: »

What kind of mentality is it to just dump all your school stuff outside? No matter where you go you'd think the schoolbags and pencil cases would be needed anyway.

It's not a mentality, it's a culture - a precious jewel which need to be preserved apparently. That and dumping your rubbish in a field - another gem to be preserved above all else!

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

There's laws against a lot of things in the precious traveller culture.

Laws are only for us "country folk"

Traveller camps are our Indian reservations - the normal state laws just don't apply!:D

Gravelly · 22-10-2018 03:19PM

To add to the above, it was telling that, when Peter Casey called for travellers to be treated the same as anyone else, there was an outcry from travellers and their representatives as if he'd called for the final solution, and said he'd start the gas ovens himself.
For any other minority anywhere in the world, a call to be treated the same as anyone else would be seen as a positive thing - for travellers it is seen as akin to nazism, because to be treated like the rest of us would involve losing their near-immunity to prosecution, their unquestioned welfare support, their free traveller-specific housing, their right to break the law when they please (sulkie races and bare knuckle fights anyone?).

tuxy · 22-10-2018 03:20PM

Ask any Garda what it's like trying to get someone who claims no fixed abode to appear in court.
Only more serious arrests will warrant someone being held on remand.

Gravelly · 22-10-2018 03:21PM

tretorn wrote: »

There are laws Gwen but the travellers dont bother obeying them for the most part.

Lots of people who dont travel wouldnt obey laws if there was no consequence but unfortuneatly when you have an address you can be found at there will be consequences if you dont obey the law.

I doubt if anyone actually knows how many traveller children there are. I was told recently a traveller family brought a child for baptism and that was grand, priest did the usual. The priest was asked to stand in for another priest in an adjoining parish and the same family turned up again with the same child to be baptised. This means the child has to baptisimal certs, now why would anyone want two baptisimal certs, there must be some sort of fraud that can be carried out if you have two baptisimal certs for one child.

There's a similar trick I've been told about regarding re-registering names of children who have died. There's more reasons than "culture" for the fact that so many travellers have the same names.

Roger Hassenforder · 22-10-2018 03:22PM

tuxy wrote: »

Ask any Garda what it's like trying to get someone who claims no fixed abode to appear in court.
Only more serious arrests will warrant someone being held on remand.

Or where they all have the same name

tretorn · 22-10-2018 03:24PM

Its like Gwen if I dont pay my TV licence I could get a summons to Court.

The ethnic minority, ie travellers can rack up forty convictions and thats just the ones recorded once they are over eighteen, and they get a slap on the wrist. They qualify for legal aid too and I dont so if I want someone to defend me I have to pay for that too.

Gwen Cooper · 22-10-2018 03:24PM

Gravelly wrote: »

Yes, but like many of our laws, when travellers break that law, they need "help" and "support" because going to school isn't "part of their culture" (like paying tax, insuring their vehicles, paying for their own accommodation etc.) so they are rarely if ever prosecuted.

Ah, I see. We have a minority like that back home.

I remember when Canada ran a report on TV years ago about this minority fearing for their lives in my country. Racism, threats, discrimination. Then they cancelled visa duty and allowed free travel to Canada. Took them about a month to bring the visas back, because all of these people were coming to Canada, expecting everything handed to them. When they came back, they complained about an awful discrimination in Canada.

Another funny story is from the town where I went to school. My boarding school was right next to the area where this minority got council flats. Everyone called that area "The Ghetto". So they took the flats apart, sold every piece of equipment there was, including all the pipes and radiators, and then went on TV and radio to show the awful conditions under which they are forced to live, no water or heating. If I remember correctly, the flats were renovated.

Last but not least, personal experience. My very first place that I rented after moving out of my parent's house was a little studio apartment. Neighbours from across the hall had the exact same apartment as myself, paid exact same rent, rented from the same landlord. There were 6 of them living there, 4 adults and 2 kids. I messed up my budget one month and I didn't have enough to pay rent. I got an eviction notice straightaway, within days of the rent being due. I talked to the landlord and he agreed that I will pay double rent next month, otherwise I'm out. When I went over to pay it to him, he wasn't at home. His wife took the money from me and told me that the people in the other flat haven't paid their rent in over 6 months and there's no risk of eviction for them because the council won't allow that. Injustice. :pac:

eviltwin · 22-10-2018 03:24PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

If a child misses more than 20 days the school makes a report to the Dept of Education who looks into it and a court appearance can follow. That doesn't apply to travellers though. Less than 10% of traveller children finish secondary school according to Pavee Point and as usual it's everyone else who is to blame for that.

Gravelly · 22-10-2018 03:25PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

Ah, I see. We have a minority like that back home.

I remember when Canada ran a report on TV years ago about this minority fearing for their lives in my country. Racism, threats, discrimination. Then they cancelled visa duty and allowed free travel to Canada. Took them about a month to bring the visas back, because all of these people were coming to Canada, expecting everything handed to them. When they came back, they complained about an awful discrimination in Canada.

Another funny story is from the town where I went to school. My boarding school was right next to the area where this minority got council flats. Everyone called that area "The Ghetto". So they took the flats apart, sold every piece of equipment there was, including all the pipes and radiators, and then went on TV and radio to show the awful conditions under which they are forced to live, no water or heating. If I remember correctly, the flats were renovated.

Last but not least, personal experience. My very first place that I rented after moving out of my parent's house was a little studio apartment. Neighbours from across the hall had the exact same apartment as myself, paid exact same rent, rented from the same landlord. There were 6 of them living there, 4 adults and 2 kids. I messed up my budget one month and I didn't have enough to pay rent. I got an eviction notice straightaway, within days of the rent being due. I talked to the landlord and he agreed that I will pay double rent next month, otherwise I'm out. When I went over to pay it to him, he wasn't at home. His wife took the money from me and told me that the people in the other flat haven't paid their rent in over 6 months and there's no risk of eviction for them because the council won't allow that. Injustice. :pac:

I've a brother living in Canada for many years - he has told me about their minority alright - a lot of similarities.

blanch152 · 22-10-2018 03:26PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

Section 17 of the Education Welfare Act:

17.—(1) Subject to subsection (2), the parent of a child shall cause the child concerned to attend a recognised school on each school day.

(2) A child shall not be required to attend a recognised school where—

(a) he or she is registered in the register maintained under section 14 ,

(b) an application under that section in respect of the child has been served on the Board but the Board has not made a decision in relation thereto, or a notice of appeal under section 15 has been served on the Minister but an appeal committee has not made a determination in relation to the appeal,

(c) he or she is a child to whom subsection (3) of section 14 applies and the period of 3 months referred to therein has not expired,

(d) the child is temporarily attending a school outside the State and the parent of the child has notified the school at which the child is registered of the reason for his or her non-attendance at the second-mentioned school,

(e) he or she is a child referred to in subsection (19) of section 14 ,

(f) he or she is receiving a certain minimum education pursuant to an arrangement made by the Board under section 27 (2), or

(g) there exists some other sufficient cause for his or her not so attending.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/22/section/17/enacted/en/html#sec17

freshpopcorn · 22-10-2018 03:26PM

Now I know plenty of people who end up on social welfare from time to time or they might be on it long term but they behave themselves. There is no excuse for this kind of criminality.

irishproduce · 22-10-2018 03:29PM

Gravelly wrote: »

To add to the above, it was telling that, when Peter Casey called for travellers to be treated the same as anyone else, there was an outcry from travellers and their representatives as if he'd called for the final solution, and said he'd start the gas ovens himself.
For any other minority anywhere in the world, a call to be treated the same as anyone else would be seen as a positive thing - for travellers it is seen as akin to nazism, because to be treated like the rest of us would involve losing their near-immunity to prosecution, their unquestioned welfare support, their free traveller-specific housing, their right to break the law when they please (sulkie races and bare knuckle fights anyone?).

This is back to the whole entitlement thing.
Your point is valid but it is so, because the community have been given something of value which they are able to use for advantage.
Mere equality is no longer desired, Enda Kenny's government gave them something which will always act as a liability to general society.

Nekarsulm · 22-10-2018 03:39PM

tretorn wrote: »

I doubt if anyone actually knows how many traveller children there are. I was told recently a traveller family brought a child for baptism and that was grand, priest did the usual. The priest was asked to stand in for another priest in an adjoining parish and the same family turned up again with the same child to be baptised. This means the child has to baptisimal certs, now why would anyone want two baptisimal certs, there must be some sort of fraud that can be carried out if you have two baptisimal certs for one child.

That happened in Fermanagh, I think in Enniskillen.
The child had been baptised a few weeks earlier in Co.Cavan, and the priest there was doing a favour for a friend across the border when the same family rocked up with the same child in a fortnight.
UK identity documents you see, so of great help for claiming benefits in two seperste juristictions.
In our letting office, it was common to have travellers come in looking for a house in a particular area, entirely dependant on who the welfare officer was.
Cavan town is split in two areas, with a seperate Welfare officer for each.
One was a soft touch, while the other definately was not.
Guess which side of town most travellers wanted a house in?

tretorn · 22-10-2018 03:49PM

I was thinking something like that.

I used to get the ferry to Holyhead from Dunlaoghaire and it was always full of travellers, presumably claiming benefits in the UK and then coming to Ireland to claim benefits here too. If you are all called Martin Or Winnie Mc Donagh its probably easy enough to defraud. That and arriving into public offices smelling like something rotting, its easier just to rubberstamp documents and send you on your way.

With facial recognition its probably easier to stop benefit fraud. The only downside to this is more brutal attacks on rural dwellers to make up the shortfall.

Paddy Cow · 22-10-2018 03:53PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

She's not trying to justify that, so I can't judge. But saying that her kids can't read and then just shrugging her shoulders saying "oh well, travellers can't read", that's too much even for me. Aren't we supposed to want the best for our kids? Doesn't denying education count as a child abuse in some countries?

Don't you see the big red flag there? Her mother isn't bothered by the robbing part (and you should be judging that) and is deflecting the spotlight onto the mean officials who brought up that the child can't read and again, the special Ethnic Status is brought into play because "oh well, travellers can't read". This is why so many people are annoyed with the Ethnic Status, because it is wheeled out to protect them whenever they blatantly break the law.

ohnonotgmail · 22-10-2018 03:57PM

tretorn wrote: »

I was thinking something like that.

I used to get the ferry to Holyhead from Dunlaoghaire and it was always full of travellers, presumably claiming benefits in the UK and then coming to Ireland to claim benefits here too. If you are all called Martin Or Winnie Mc Donagh its probably easy enough to defraud. That and arriving into public offices smelling like something rotting, its easier just to rubberstamp documents and send you on your way.

With facial recognition its probably easier to stop benefit fraud. The only downside to this is more brutal attacks on rural dwellers to make up the shortfall.

The facial recognition software they use pays for itself.

KrustyUCC · 22-10-2018 04:10PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Don't you see the big red flag there? Her mother isn't bothered by the robbing part (and you should be judging that) and is deflecting the spotlight onto the mean officials who brought up that the child can't read and again, the special Ethnic Status is brought into play because "oh well, travellers can't read". This is why so many people are annoyed with the Ethnic Status, because it is wheeled out to protect them whenever they blatantly break the law.

That child is nine and has made her communion

How is that she can't read?

According to Margaret the kids never miss a day of school

tretorn · 22-10-2018 04:15PM

I think the child in question isnt Margarets own.

its one of the hugs hun brigade asking the pals to pray she gets her children back.

The not being able to read part is supposed to explain why the child should know you have to pay for something, they will use every excuse under the sun.

Paddy Cow · 22-10-2018 04:21PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That child is nine and has made her communion

How is that she can't read?

According to Margaret the kids never miss a day of school

A poster quoted a fb quote and we were talking about the contents of the post. Someone else has said that wasn't Margaret talking about her own child. Which would make sense because if Margaret had lost her kids at any stage it would be all over the media by now.

jmayo · 22-10-2018 04:25PM

Gwen Cooper wrote: »

So (and please pardon me if it's a stupid question, I'm not Irish and this whole Traveller business is still new to me) isn't there some law in Ireland that says that kids have to go to school, otherwise they're taken away?

There are laws for school attendance but as others have said those laws are only enforced for members of the settled community.

Much like the laws on pollution, waste treatment, trespassing, motoring and animal welfare.

Our police force are often afraid to mess with travellers because they could face a full scale riot and they are pretty good at street fighting.
After all they do enough practice bare knuckle boxing, fighting with slash hooks and briar hooks, pick axe handles and hatchets.

Then even when the Garda manage to drag them to court our judges just go with the sob stories from the taxpayer funded solicitor/barrister and give them yet another slap on the wrist.

Rinse and repeat.

KrustyUCC · 22-10-2018 04:39PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

A poster quoted a fb quote and we were talking about the contents of the post. Someone else has said that wasn't Margaret talking about her own child. Which would make sense because if Margaret had lost her kids at any stage it would be all over the media by now.

Ah ok fair enough

Nekarsulm · 22-10-2018 05:44PM

jmayo wrote: »

Our police force are often afraid to mess with travellers because they could face a full scale riot and they are pretty good at street fighting.

Then even when the Garda manage to drag them to court our judges just go with the sob stories from the taxpayer funded solicitor/barrister and give them yet another slap on the wrist.

Rinse and repeat.

Well yes and no, a good number of the Gardai are pally with them, or at least as pally as they get with anyone.

Our office got a phobe call to say that a house we had let had a smashed patio door.
I drove out to see what the story was, to find the tenant there with an uncle.
The uncle was measuring it for a new glass.
The tenant and the wife had had a row and something got thrown through the patio door.
The wife and child had left.
The tenant assured me the glass would be replaced by morning, rest of the house was fine.
Then tbe Gardai appeared. Someone had reported a row etc.
They weren't a bit interested in me, the house owner, or the door.
Started chatting to your man about some christening at the weekend, and the row afterwards.
When the tenant started inviting them in for tea, I left.

Tenants moved out a month later, leaving a huge gas bill. (and the gas cut off)

Didnt see him for at least a year, and came across him one day in Cavan courthouse when I was taxing the jeep.
All pally, tried to sell me a cattle trailer that was allegedly stored in a yard in north county Dublin.

It'd be a very foolish lad would follow him to some obsure yard somewhere in the north side of the city while driving a jeep and with three thousand euro cash in uour pocket .......

spookwoman · 22-10-2018 07:45PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

What about the bit where her daughter got caught robbing from the hotel shop?

Also you don't need to be able to read to know robbing and stealing is wrong and against the law.

Mr. teddywinkles · 22-10-2018 09:59PM

jmayo wrote: »

There are laws for school attendance but as others have said those laws are only enforced for members of the settled community.

Much like the laws on pollution, waste treatment, trespassing, motoring and animal welfare.

Our police force are often afraid to mess with travellers because they could face a full scale riot and they are pretty good at street fighting.
After all they do enough practice bare knuckle boxing, fighting with slash hooks and briar hooks, pick axe handles and hatchets.

Then even when the Garda manage to drag them to court our judges just go with the sob stories from the taxpayer funded solicitor/barrister and give them yet another slap on the wrist.

Rinse and repeat.

Don't forget the legal system takes a piece of the pie too for helping our culture enriched cousins.

Eggs For Dinner · 23-10-2018 07:54AM

spookwoman wrote: »

Also you don't need to be able to read to know robbing and stealing is wrong and against the law.

If you're shown and told every day that it is acceptable behaviour to rob from others, then perhaps you do need to be able to read to find an alternative opinion

Fr_Dougal · 23-10-2018 08:18AM

Danny_B wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/margartandjohnnymccarthy/posts/532418330562461

Looking to get rid of some clothes ASAP......hmmmmm

Fixed the link for you:

https://m.facebook.com/margartandjohnnymccarthy/posts/532418330562461

Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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