The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Paully D · 22-10-2018 07:49PM

letowski wrote: »

I wonder if Derek Carr is on Jon Gruden's long term plans.

The most concerning thing is that Gruden is in the Raiders long term plans.

Masked Man · 22-10-2018 07:56PM

I think at this stage you have to let it play out. In for a penny, in for a pound.

He's got a long term contract and the picks/cap to build a team he wants. If you believe in him enough to give him that contract you have to give him a few seasons to do what he wants.

Masked Man · 22-10-2018 07:56PM

and lol Cowboys.

Itssoeasy · 22-10-2018 08:07PM

Dez Bryant is staring at his phone somewhere getting annoyed.

Jolly Red Giant · 22-10-2018 09:03PM

Broncos have Demaryius Thomas WR and Brandon Marshall LB on the trade block

Thomas is being pushed for playing time by Courtland Sutton and Marshall is facing major competition from Josey Jewell.

MileHighGuy · 23-10-2018 01:11AM

Great bit of business for the Radiers. They are going nowhere this year, and Cooper is not a top tier receiver, has only a year and a bit left on his favourable rookie deal, is prone to disappear and has a historically high drop rate.

I can see where the Cowboys were going with it, they badly need a wideout, but I just don't think they are as close to contending as they must think they are.

Realt Dearg Sec · 23-10-2018 01:26AM

MileHighGuy wrote: »

Great bit of business for the Radiers. They are going nowhere this year, and Cooper is not a top tier receiver, has only a year and a bit left on his favourable rookie deal, is prone to disappear and has a historically high drop rate.

I can see where the Cowboys were going with it, they badly need a wideout, but I just don't think they are as close to contending as they must think they are.

It's just such a crazy price. I don't even like seeing the Bears take a wide receiver in the first round of the draft itself, let alone handing over the same pick for a guy whose production hasn't been that of a first round talent in a while. With wideouts being a bit of a crapshoot in the draft, I figure if he was worth a first, they wouldn't have traded him for one.

Foxtrol · 23-10-2018 02:07AM

I thought the Raiders overpaid for Bryant for a 3rd but wow is that an overpay for Cooper. Even if he does improve on the last year and a half they'll be paying him more than Julio next year.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero · 23-10-2018 07:33AM

When you put into context what the likes of Cooks, Landry and Gordon went for it was looks so much worse. Cooper isn't anywhere near either of those in terms of ability, and will be getting paid next year. Cowboys obviously believe they have a realistic chance this year of a playoff run.

Guffy · 23-10-2018 07:39AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Gruden has bought himself a few years anyway. Three first rounders next year and two the following year in hand now.

Gruden is the safest HC in the league with a guaranteed $100 whether he goes tomorrow or in 10 years time.

23-10-2018 08:08AM

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

When you put into context what the likes of Cooks, Landry and Gordon went for it was looks so much worse. Cooper isn't anywhere near either of those in terms of ability, and will be getting paid next year. Cowboys obviously believe they have a realistic chance this year of a playoff run.

They can make the playoffs because the division is so poor but they won't do anything while there.

Adamocovic · 23-10-2018 08:18AM

Ian Rapoport tweeted a good point to defend Cowboys (which I hate doing).

They now get a 24 year old 2 time Pro Bowler. Highlights how he's not much older than most draft picks in the position and they know what they are getting with him. It could work out but hard to not think a first round pick is a lot.

Raiders are playing an interesting and dangerous game. I know people say it's the rebuilding but seems like Gruden is hellbent on draft stock rather than looking for replacements within the league and FA. He will be expecting a lot from rookies and could easily end up drafting flops.

I'm bias again though as I am not a fan of Gruden as coach and reckon the Raiders were fools to give him that long contract.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2018 08:33AM

Isn't his contract only 5 years really because of a break option?

I'm open to correction but I'm almost certain I read that somewhere.

jack presley · 23-10-2018 09:23AM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't his contract only 5 years really because of a break option?

I'm open to correction but I'm almost certain I read that somewhere.

I’d imagine it’s not the straight $100m/10 years guaranteed contract anyway. I’d say there’s some get out clause somewhere in there.

Blut2 · 23-10-2018 11:30AM

5 years is long enough for him to tank this season, rebuild for two more and then start winning before any contract review/breakpoint though. In theory.

Theory aside though I'm not sure how thrilled I'd be as a Raiders fan looking down the barrel of 3/4 terrible seasons in a row.

Shedite27 · 23-10-2018 11:46AM

Blut2 wrote: »

5 years is long enough for him to tank this season, rebuild for two more and then start winning before any contract review/breakpoint though. In theory.

Theory aside though I'm not sure how thrilled I'd be as a Raiders fan looking down the barrel of 3/4 terrible seasons in a row.

The blueprint for being successful these days seems to be:

Season 1-2
- trade away big names and stockpile draft picks
- tank a few season to make those draftpicks more valuable

Season 3
- get a rookie QB on the rookie pay-scale
- let him develop for a season or two

Season 4-8
- with QB and other high draft choices on 5 year contract on low money, surround him with big free agents
- proceed to playoffs

In an ideal world, Raiders would have kept Mack and Cooper, but they're the sort of players they need in 2021, not this year.

BonnieSituation · 23-10-2018 11:52AM

Shedite27 wrote: »

The blueprint for being successful these days seems to be:

Season 1-2
- trade away big names and stockpile draft picks
- tank a few season to make those draftpicks more valuable

Season 3
- get a rookie QB on the rookie pay-scale
- let him develop for a season or two

Season 4-8
- with QB and other high draft choices on 5 year contract on low money, surround him with big free agents
- proceed to playoffs

In an ideal world, Raiders would have kept Mack and Cooper, but they're the sort of players they need in 2021, not this year.

That's a fair read of the situation.

adrian522 · 23-10-2018 11:59AM

I would say its more like get a good QB on a rookie contract, then trade away draft picks/spend big in FA to bring in quality around that.

Gives you a window of 3-4 years to win a SB. The question then is do you extend your rookie QB or do you trade him and try and do the same thing again?

VonZan · 23-10-2018 12:09PM

adrian522 wrote: »

I would say its more like get a good QB on a rookie contract, then trade away draft picks/spend big in FA to bring in quality around that.

Gives you a window of 3-4 years to win a SB. The question then is do you extend your rookie QB or do you trade him and try and do the same thing again?

I'd go down the draft route. Look at Green Bay. They won't win another SB with Rodgers.

Adamocovic · 23-10-2018 12:19PM

Like I said maybe I'm bias as I don't believe Gruden will be a success. Think he's stuck in his ways and it's been too long since he's been an extremely succesful coach. Hasn't won a playoff game since 2002, the Super Bowl winning year.

Even his Super Bowl season leads to debate. He definitely deserves credit for it but like Warren Sapp said "Tony baked the cake and Jon put the icing on it".

My big issue is how much of a rebuild was necessary in Oakland? Easy to forget this was a team that went 12-4 in 2016 with multiple Pro-Bowlers, and had Carr not got injured who knows.

Last year was bad for them at 6-10 but I still believe the pieces were there for them to challenge this year and so far they are 1-5. Most rebuild jobs are like Shedite27 said, but most revolve around the need of finding a franchise QB. And with a 27 year old 3 time pro-bowler you would expect that task isn't required, also has pro-bowl winning offensive linemen (from last year even).

Raiders must have given him the go ahead to strip that team apart and rebuild it to his liking. With the relocation coming up maybe they aren't as pushed about actual on field success until the first season in Vegas. I also think some of this breaking the roster down and rebuilding is stemming from Gruden wanting no doubts that it's a team he built if success comes their way.

Maybe I'm naive but fully believe that Gruden had inheritated a team that he could tweak and make some adjustments to and be able to compete for a playoff spot.

Paully D · 23-10-2018 12:56PM

https://twitter.com/profootballtalk/status/1054691373792878592?s=21

Seems a bit silly the source saying he can’t see Carr being taken seriously by teammates as a leader again because he cried after getting injured.

FFS, you’d think those within the NFL would have learned about this “manly man” perception rubbish by now. It’s not the 1940’s any more.

bruschi · 23-10-2018 01:01PM

Paully D wrote: »

https://twitter.com/profootballtalk/status/1054691373792878592?s=21

Seems a bit silly the source saying he can’t see Carr being taken seriously by teammates as a leader again because he cried after getting injured.

FFS, you’d think those within the NFL would have learned about this “manly man” perception rubbish by now. It’s not the 1940’s any more.

Foxtrol · 23-10-2018 01:22PM

Another possibility is that the Cowboys have realized that they’ll need to decide on Dak pretty soon and he wasn’t looking good going with the guys they’d left him with this year. With Cooper they give him what should be an upgrade and see what happens. Their other option was leaving it until next year to give him some talent and by the time they have a few months to settle in then they would be tight on doing a deal with Dak.

cosatron · 23-10-2018 02:00PM

VonZan wrote: »

I'd go down the draft route. Look at Green Bay. They won't win another SB with Rodgers.

as a packer fan, I hope to god your wrong, but Rodgers and his contract is not the reason packers haven't won more superbowls, it's poor drafting, poor management are the main reason we haven't won more and since Rodgers was made the highest paid player the last time around his being to 2 nfc championship games.

adrian522 · 23-10-2018 02:06PM

cosatron wrote: »

as a packer fan, I hope to god your wrong, but Rodgers and his contract is not the reason packers haven't won more superbowls, it's poor drafting, poor management are the main reason we haven't won more and since Rodgers was made the highest paid player the last time around his being to 2 nfc championship games.

I think the point is teams are better off following the Seahawks/Rams model of getting a good QB on a rookie deal, surrounded with talent rather than getting an elite QB on a big money deal and hoping he'll make everyone better.

Still not easy to find a good QB in the draft that you will get 3 good years out of on his rookie deal though.

Shedite27 · 23-10-2018 03:15PM

adrian522 wrote: »

I think the point is teams are better off following the Seahawks/Rams model of getting a good QB on a rookie deal, surrounded with talent rather than getting an elite QB on a big money deal and hoping he'll make everyone better.

Still not easy to find a good QB in the draft that you will get 3 good years out of on his rookie deal though.

Yeah big difference in who you draft, imagine Jacksonville if they had Goff/Wentz/Mahomes

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 23-10-2018 03:58PM

Just looking at the last 13 championships and what is obvious is that all of these teams were built around a quality QB. Young ones? Wilson, Manning(04), Wentz and Flacco ... the rest built around top notch veterans although I guess Big Ben may count as young for one of those.

Foles/Wentz
Brady *2
P Manning*2
Wilson
Flacco
E Manning *2
Rodgers
Brees
Rothelsberger*2

.

thomond2006 · 23-10-2018 05:22PM

Eli Apple gone to Saints for a 2019 4th and 2020 7th. NYG must have been desperate to get rid of him, that price is nothing for a 2016 first rounder.

Foxtrol · 23-10-2018 05:51PM

Chad Kelly arrested for first degree criminal trespass. He managed to keep out of public trouble right up until the point where there was a lot of noise for him to get game time.

eagle eye · 23-10-2018 05:53PM

I believe that Amari Cooper is top notch. You can see how well he got on when Carr had a decent offensive line. Since Carr came back from injury he has had awful pass protection and as a result has favoured bigger receivers mist of the time.
Cooper will do well with a decent QB who is well protected. All the Cowboys have to do now is find a decent QB or maybe Dak isn't that bad and has just needed a top receiver.

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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