Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

Pussyhands · 21-09-2018 12:22PM

sexmag wrote: »

https://www.coindesk.com/up-13-xrp-jumps-by-double-digits-for-second-time-this-week/

There's multiple positive news stories about every crypto coin at any given time.

Vechain was on stage with Boyd in China and it tanked.

sexmag · 21-09-2018 12:33PM

Pussyhands wrote: »

There's multiple positive news stories about every crypto coin at any given time.

Vechain was on stage with Boyd in China and it tanked.

You asked a question i gave an answer

Tinder Surprise · 25-09-2018 05:01PM

Hopefully this improves things..
Google ends cryptocurrency ad ban

makeorbrake · 25-09-2018 06:11PM

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

Hopefully this improves things..
Google ends cryptocurrency ad ban

I'm open to correction but I wouldn't have thought it would be all that relevant from a market point of view. Possibly from a perception point of view, yes.

They were wrong to ban all crypto ads in the first instance. Of course there are scammers in the crypto space. Given crypto has been the buzz word in 2018, it was always going to attract Jordan Belfort types - who have nothing to do with the industry otherwise - in constructing 'scams' where they incorporate the word 'crypto' or some rouse based on crypto.

There will always be scammers and fraudsters and people they can take advantage of but it's not the fault of the tech or the market itself.

Dohnjoe · 26-09-2018 10:19AM

Pussyhands wrote: »

There's multiple positive news stories about every crypto coin at any given time.

Vechain was on stage with Boyd in China and it tanked.

Most crypto news is basically "good" news, but the effect it has on the market is related to it's quality and value. X has partnered with Y. It depends on what X is, who Y is, the nature of the partnership, recent news, recent movements, etc. Generally people will buy on the rumour and sell on the news, but it depends on the type of announcement/news/market conditions

Combine that with an irrational market, whether it's bull/bear/turning/stagnating

If it was as easy as "good news makes it go up" we'd all be millionaires

sexmag · 26-09-2018 10:38AM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If it was as easy as "good news makes it go up" we'd all be millionaires

Speak for yourself :cool:

asteroids over berlin · 28-09-2018 08:35AM

bubble bubble.......are you surviving, the storm shall be over soon, be strong brothers/sisters

Tinder Surprise · 28-09-2018 09:51AM

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

bubble bubble.......are you surviving, the storm shall be over soon, be strong brothers/sisters

forget about crypto, I wanna get me some of your positive attitude, asteroids over berlin

Pintman Paddy Losty · 28-09-2018 09:04PM

Like all scams, the Bitcoin Ponzi relied on the argument that “it’s different this time, because of details that are too complex for you to understand”.
Like in every single scam ever, rational critics like myself and JohnnyFlash are pushed aside and ridiculed by the proud bagholders of magic beans.
As always, the bagholders used the same circular argument to rationalise the impossible. “I’m smart because I bought these magic beans who are going up every day, and they can’t be a scam because I’m smart.”
As always, the scam worked until the world ran out of greater idiots.

makeorbrake · 28-09-2018 10:32PM

Grumpypants · 29-09-2018 01:47AM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Like all scams, the Bitcoin Ponzi relied on the argument that “it’s different this time, because of details that are too complex for you to understand”.
Like in every single scam ever, rational critics like myself and JohnnyFlash are pushed aside and ridiculed by the proud bagholders of magic beans.
As always, the bagholders used the same circular argument to rationalise the impossible. “I’m smart because I bought these magic beans who are going up every day, and they can’t be a scam because I’m smart.”
As always, the scam worked until the world ran out of greater idiots.

I've yet to hear you or Johnny make a single argument against crypto that is based in fact. We get the same old misguided arguments that have been debunked over and over again. Each time ye disappear for a few weeks before popping back up acting like you are right.

I had to send Euros to Sterling recently. It took 7 days and cost €400, using banks and used 4 times the power as bitcoin would have. For anyone to say that is better than using crypto to transfer in a few minutes for a fraction of the cost is just being disingenuous.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 29-09-2018 09:15AM

Grumpypants wrote: »

I've yet to hear you or Johnny make a single argument against crypto that is based in fact. We get the same old misguided arguments that have been debunked over and over again. Each time ye disappear for a few weeks before popping back up acting like you are right.

I had to send Euros to Sterling recently. It took 7 days and cost €400, using banks and used 4 times the power as bitcoin would have. For anyone to say that is better than using crypto to transfer in a few minutes for a fraction of the cost is just being disingenuous.

SEPA could have done the job you wanted for free. Not this posters fault that you insisted on buying your car arseways.

Avatar MIA · 29-09-2018 09:23AM

Grumpypants wrote: »

I had to send Euros to Sterling recently. It took 7 days and cost €400, using banks and used 4 times the power as bitcoin would have. For anyone to say that is using crypto to transfer in a few minutes for a fraction of the cost is just being disingenuous.

Cost €400 ? And took 7 days? How is that even possible? Would like to know in case I've the urge to figuratively burn some money.

Re your second point - why didn't you use crypto currency in this case?

Akrasia · 29-09-2018 09:25AM

Grumpypants wrote: »

I've yet to hear you or Johnny make a single argument against crypto that is based in fact. We get the same old misguided arguments that have been debunked over and over again. Each time ye disappear for a few weeks before popping back up acting like you are right.

I had to send Euros to Sterling recently. It took 7 days and cost €400, using banks and used 4 times the power as bitcoin would have. For anyone to say that is better than using crypto to transfer in a few minutes for a fraction of the cost is just being disingenuous.

Why didn't you use crypto then?

Oh yeah, because nobody other than a lunatic would accept it in exchange for real asset like a car. The exchange risk is insane. The seller could lose 10% of the value of the currency in a day.

Crypto to crypto transactions are quick and easy. Crypto to FIAT is way more expensive and more risky given how often exchanges are hacked

Grumpypants · 29-09-2018 09:43AM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

SEPA could have done the job you wanted for free. Not this posters fault that you insisted on buying your car arseways.

So your suggestion is to transfer money into some strangers account in a different country with no come back if he does a runner. Brilliant advice!!

To transfer euro into a sterling account you still pay to convert to a foreign currency, that's €400 difference when using the banks rates on the day when compared to the rates on XE.com.

Plus a sepa transfer takes a min of 24 hours to complete, on a business day. I was buying on a Saturday so it wouldn't have cleared until Monday.

Staying 3 nights in the uk wasn't an option. The seller needed the car collected that day, i needed to be home that night. So the only option was a sterling draft i could hand over on the day once i was happy with the car.

Or if bitcoin had mass adoption I could have text him a code and he would have had his funds in minutes at a fraction of the cost.

Grumpypants · 29-09-2018 09:57AM

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Cost €400 ? And took 7 days? How is that even possible? Would like to know in case I've the urge to figuratively burn some money.

Re your second point - why didn't you use crypto currency in this case?

Even a legit draft takes 6 business days to clear the funds, plus sunday, that is 7 days. Plus because all the banks have closed their small local branches i had to drive right into the city to get a draft, wasting another half a day.

I didn't use crypto because the seller wanted a draft.

sexmag · 29-09-2018 10:02AM

Akrasia wrote: »

The seller could lose 10% of the value of the currency in a day.

BTC has stayed in the 5600 to 5800 range in the last 7 days at least, hardly 10%.

Unfortunate until there is further adoption there will be changes in value which aren't specific to crypto,look at Venezuela.

It's slowly happening but still in its early days,people expect things to just happen over night, an entire new type of currency that's been around for 10 years but really only being brought to mainstream attention in the last 4 isn't going to have a world wide adoption in that time,particularly when you have people abusing it to their own advantage and the media scare tactics. Once that balances out then stability will be brought to the crypto world

You don't want You use it that's fine,keep paying your bank fees just for having an account,using your debit card,making transfers and leaving someone else have complete control of your money

Akrasia · 29-09-2018 11:02AM

sexmag wrote: »

BTC has stayed in the 5600 to 5800 range in the last 7 days at least, hardly 10%.

Its called exchange risk because of the uncertainty. BTC has had its value change by 30% in 24 hours within the last year. Its not a reliable store of value or medium of exchange.

Unfortunate until there is further adoption there will be changes in value which aren't specific to crypto,look at Venezuela.
[\quote]
Comparing crypto to a collapsing currency is about right. Why not compare it to a stable currency instead?

It's slowly happening but still in its early days,people expect things to just happen over night, an entire new type of currency that's been around for 10 years but really only being brought to mainstream attention in the last 4 isn't going to have a world wide adoption in that time,particularly when you have people abusing it to their own advantage and the media scare tactics. Once that balances out then stability will be brought to the crypto world

You don't want You use it that's fine,keep paying your bank fees just for having an account,using your debit card,making transfers and leaving someone else have complete control of your money

You hang in there if you like, but there is absolutely no fundamental value in BTC. It's a technology that has its uses. But not as a store of value other than as a collectors item

You might as well put all your savings into rare stamps or pokemon cards

makeorbrake · 29-09-2018 12:59PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Its called exchange risk because of the uncertainty.

Yes, there is volatility - no contest. The use of money is a cornerstone of human activity. You may be appalled at BTC volatility but it was more volatile in the past. It's something that's likely to take quite some time to work out but it will work its way out. The internet wasn't a whole lot of use to many when it was available at dial up speeds. This is new tech - and it's evolving.

In the meantime, there are around 40 stablecoins either launched or due to be launched - usually tied to FIAT, algorithm based, fiat backed or asset backed (eg. gold).

Akrasia wrote: »

Its not a reliable store of value ...You might as well put all your savings into rare stamps or pokemon cards

You seem to be referencing two aspects here. The volatility - which we've covered and no belief in it, generally. As a long term store of value, it's as good as anything else that's out there. As regards your belief or disbelief, people attribute value to something...whether that be those pieces of paper in your wallet (as that's all they are, they're not backed by anything) or gold (and people can go on about the industrial use cases for gold or amenity uses - by far the main reason people hoard it is as a store of value..not with anything else in mind). Crypto is no different. So long as people attribute value to it, it has value. Of course, one fine day it may have none and I suspect that's your belief. We will have to wait and see. Bitcoin may or may not be around for ever but crypto generally is here to stay. There will be a crypto based store of value whether it's bitcoin or another coin.

Akrasia wrote: »

It's a technology that has its uses.

Which use cases?

Akrasia wrote: »

Comparing crypto to a collapsing currency is about right. Why not compare it to a stable currency instead?

Sure...but understand that FIAT currencies can and do collapse. In case you think, well that doesn't happen in our case, we came extremely close to it around 2008. Furthermore, in any given year there's a list of a few FIAT currencies that are all over the place.

smacl · 29-09-2018 04:28PM

Akrasia wrote: »

Its called exchange risk because of the uncertainty. BTC has had its value change by 30% in 24 hours within the last year. Its not a reliable store of value or medium of exchange.

Agreed it is not a reliable store of value, whether it has value as a medium of exchange is dependant on how long that exchange takes to complete and how volatile the crypto being used is over that period. While I haven't used BTC in a long time, any exchanges I've made between fiat and crypto on Kraken, either buying or selling have been very quick if I accept their market rate. It is not cost free as there are effectively charges between moving from fiat to crypto, transferring the crypto, moving back to fiat and SEPA charges moving the fiat from the crypto exchange to a bank account. AFAIK, moving from one account to another on the same exchange is relatively quick, though to be fair I haven't timed it so perhaps others could comment. As such, it seems like an entirely viable medium for exchange unless I'm missing something else obvious.

Dohnjoe · 29-09-2018 10:46PM

Akrasia wrote: »

The seller could lose 10% of the value of the currency in a day.

In an hour

asteroids over berlin · 05-10-2018 11:01PM

Interesting news coming from the sec, market may run hard (in a good way) very soon, November could be very interesting and if the right news comes in December ....."...m", my inclination is we are on for it, it is an inclination though, please consider and come to your own inclination!

makeorbrake · 05-10-2018 11:38PM

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

Interesting news coming from the sec, market may run hard (in a good way) very soon, November could be very interesting and if the right news comes in December ....."...m", my inclination is we are on for it, it is an inclination though, please consider and come to your own inclination!

I wonder do these potential ETF announcements make that much difference? We have Bakkt launching and we now have TD Ameritrade - one of the biggest online brokers around - about to get much more exposure for their clients - to crypto...

banie01 · 06-10-2018 11:06AM

The ETF is to my mind at least much less important to the market than the potential entry of existing and trusted retail brokers to the market.
When the likes of TD and IG add crypto assets to their regular portfolio options it will have a huge impact.

The merits of the ETF have been pulled apart and reassembled so many times.
I'm a fan of ETFs for market exposure in stocks, with crypto I struggle to see the merits of an ETF over direct ownership.
An ETF tracking an index or asset class that physically holds the asset rather than synthetic replication gives the holder access to the entire index while reducing TCO and mitigating risk and cost as if worst comes to pass, the fund actually holds the stocks.

A Bitcoin only(or indeed any crypto only) ETF holds more risk IMHO than direct holding of the asset.
It adds a layer of administration and cost on top of trading cost to allow access to a single asset while not allowing direct ownership of it.
Completely pointless to my mind, and pursued doggedly by people who don't seem to understand that ETFs are designed mitigate risk across assets and markets, even highly geared or short ETFs aim at multiple holdings.

An ETF for a single specific asset is at odds with an ETF is or at least should be.
In any case while ETN's are inherently different, any investor can add Bitcoin or ETH exposure to their current stock trading platform quite easily and with a good degree of confidence in the provider so I'm finding it hard to see what an ETF approval actually brings to the table other than a pump on the hope and a dump on the reality?

Dohnjoe · 08-10-2018 06:21PM

sexmag wrote: »

BTC has stayed in the 5600 to 5800 range in the last 7 days at least, hardly 10%.

It has the potential to shift dramatically in a short time period and has demonstrated that repeatedly

As an asset it's considered highly volatile

It's slowly happening but still in its early days,people expect things to just happen over night, an entire new type of currency that's been around for 10 years but really only being brought to mainstream attention in the last 4 isn't going to have a world wide adoption in that time,particularly when you have people abusing it to their own advantage and the media scare tactics. Once that balances out then stability will be brought to the crypto world

I agree but BTC and fixed supply assets are absolutely rubbish as every-day currencies. Public adoption is not going to happen because there is no incentive to adopt as a currency (outside of niche use, like black market)

Stable-coins potentially have a future

You don't want You use it that's fine,keep paying your bank fees just for having an account,using your debit card,making transfers and leaving someone else have complete control of your money

My cash is managed, insured, safe, accessible and I have recourse - all at the cost of a few euros a month. Make no mistake there will be crypto custodians and banks (many are already in the works), when there is, the holdings will fall under the same regulations as modern banks

The public generally don't want to handle high value amounts of anything and be liable to hacks, malware, bugs, no insurance, no recourse, extreme market volatility and so on

At the end of the day most cryptos aren't cash, they are more like volatile penny stocks. Comparing them to cash in banks is a bit of a misnomer (in my opinion)

seannash · 10-10-2018 09:01AM

Is it safe to assume that its just bots and wash trading that's keeping it between $6500 and $6700

Dohnjoe · 10-10-2018 12:22PM

What does anyone here think of Bibox? (the tokens), Chinese exchange, very good "rate of return" if you trade there at least once a week (I believe it beats all other exchanges), has high volume compared to price.. if I remember correctly was set up by the Huobi guys, decent token burn

Seems to be a little "under-priced" to me relative to other exchanges, their volumes and their max supply

KarlMarks · 10-10-2018 01:20PM

I think the fundamentals are very strong, and we are just in a period of consolidation at the moment. I’ve been buying the dips and have lowered my average buy-in price. The majority of my portfolio is in Bitcoin, but I also invested in a number of alts across a number of different categories – stable coins, IOT coins, micropayment coins, lending coins. There’s a huge amount of work going on there behind the scenes – 50k ethereum developers alone!! Expect to see more large companies come out of stealth with partnerships with some coins – EOS, IOTA, OmiseGO, and Decred are all primed to take traditional industries by storm. Of course there are some sh1tcoins out there, but research, research, research people! Check out the teams, read the whitepaper, read it again, look at the roadmap and see if what they are promising can be delivered, check out the subreddits and telegram groups, see who is backing them, any previous partnerships. You need to put in the work here.

There’s a lot of FUD out there at the moment, but you need to do your own research and see why the vested interests are so against crypto and blockchain. They are worried. We’ve already shaken the weak hands out of the market, and the warriors that are left are primed to make a serious killing as wall street money floods into the market. Already think they are investing using OTC. Gemini launching a stable coin was a hugely bullish signal I thought. There’s so many bull signals out there at the moment if you just look for them. Fear is a strong emotion, and I’ve been using NLP techniques to motivate me when making purchasing decisions. I’ve also been reading as much as I can about technical analysis (TA) methods so I can start day trading when the bull market kicks off.

I’m very confident that we will see $14k bitcoin by December, with 2019 being the year this rocket to the moon really takes off. HODL, consolidate, remain calm, open that good bottle of wine, light a cigar, and wait for take-off! Ignore the naysayers. Wage slaves are incapable of seeing how radical crypto is, and it’s up to Crypto Visionaries like ourselves to teach them. First by buying lambos (!!), but then by educating, holding free classes about crypto, paper wallets. Help humanity through bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Peace brothers.

ZeroThreat · 11-10-2018 11:55AM

KarlMarks wrote: »

I think the fundamentals are very strong, and we are just in a period of consolidation at the moment. I’ve been buying the dips and have lowered my average buy-in price. The majority of my portfolio is in Bitcoin, but I also invested in a number of alts across a number of different categories – stable coins, IOT coins, micropayment coins, lending coins. There’s a huge amount of work going on there behind the scenes – 50k ethereum developers alone!! Expect to see more large companies come out of stealth with partnerships with some coins – EOS, IOTA, OmiseGO, and Decred are all primed to take traditional industries by storm. Of course there are some sh1tcoins out there, but research, research, research people! Check out the teams, read the whitepaper, read it again, look at the roadmap and see if what they are promising can be delivered, check out the subreddits and telegram groups, see who is backing them, any previous partnerships. You need to put in the work here.

There’s a lot of FUD out there at the moment, but you need to do your own research and see why the vested interests are so against crypto and blockchain. They are worried. We’ve already shaken the weak hands out of the market, and the warriors that are left are primed to make a serious killing as wall street money floods into the market. Already think they are investing using OTC. Gemini launching a stable coin was a hugely bullish signal I thought. There’s so many bull signals out there at the moment if you just look for them. Fear is a strong emotion, and I’ve been using NLP techniques to motivate me when making purchasing decisions. I’ve also been reading as much as I can about technical analysis (TA) methods so I can start day trading when the bull market kicks off.

I’m very confident that we will see $14k bitcoin by December, with 2019 being the year this rocket to the moon really takes off. HODL, consolidate, remain calm, open that good bottle of wine, light a cigar, and wait for take-off! Ignore the naysayers. Wage slaves are incapable of seeing how radical crypto is, and it’s up to Crypto Visionaries like ourselves to teach them. First by buying lambos (!!), but then by educating, holding free classes about crypto, paper wallets. Help humanity through bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Peace brothers.

Why does someone always post an uplifting crypto pep-talk like this and then the market dumps the very next day?

banie01 · 11-10-2018 12:48PM

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Why does someone always post an uplifting crypto pep-talk like this and then the market dumps the very next day?

I know, just when someone comes along and proclaims keeping the faith...
Fate bites back!
This dip got me back in on some more BTC, wasn't expecting it to 4% lower than I had my buy set tho :pac:

Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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