NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Marlow · 09-10-2018 10:40PM

Pique wrote: »

On what grounds, do you think?

The tender being attacked in court ?

- the tender process was compromised, when the procedures for the tender were omitted with the NY dinner
- the original consortium entering the tender is nowhere near the composition of the consortium handing in the the final tender document. That in itself should not have happened
- the IIF and eNet are still part of the tender process, both being owned substantially by the government, which may negate the availability of EU loans, jeopardizing the rollout funding.

And that's just the big ones. Lots more to be found. The entire NBP tender is a joke.

/M

SkepticQuark · 10-10-2018 12:47AM

I'm sorry but are the government actually that stupid to have allowed enet to be involved with it's IIF ownership if they thought it would breach EU rules? Surely that would have been covered already by them?

Marlow · 10-10-2018 12:52AM

roddy15 wrote: »

I'm sorry but are the government actually that stupid to have allowed enet to be involved with it's IIF ownership if they thought it would breach EU rules? Surely that would have been covered already by them?

Erh ... track record, please. Thank you.

/M

KOR101 · 10-10-2018 08:27AM

"Enet never wanted to build the network and told the government as much. Instead, it wanted the network to be owned by the state and Enet would operate it.

When the department settled on a private ownership model, Enet was forced to seek help. SSE, a British infrastructure company, was brought on board, as was John Laing for its knowledge of public-private partnerships. "

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-broadband-plan-became-tangled-web-n3khrjt50

KOR101 · 10-10-2018 08:38AM

Marlow wrote: »

The tender being attacked in court ?

- the tender process was compromised, when the procedures for the tender were omitted with the NY dinner
- the original consortium entering the tender is nowhere near the composition of the consortium handing in the the final tender document. That in itself should not have happened
- the IIF and eNet are still part of the tender process, both being owned substantially by the government, which may negate the availability of EU loans, jeopardizing the rollout funding.

And that's just the big ones. Lots more to be found. The entire NBP tender is a joke.

/M

I don't disagree with any of that but it's hard to see how Imagine's position was compromised by those things. They fell on the technical requirements.

I think the big problem with the process is that it got side-tracked by EIR claiming at one point that it could be done much cheaper than the Govt originally thought. Those costs got fixed in the Department's mind. But all the private sector dropouts just looked at SIROs experience where things took twice as long, probably cost twice as much, and got really poor takeup. And, that was for a much much easier rollout in towns. Even if McCourt wins will he not just hit reality at some point. If that happens and we end up paying 2X anyway, then it would have been much better to have the ESB or EIR do it.

tototoe · 10-10-2018 01:02PM

Drip drip drip...

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1010/1002207-denis-naughten-dail/

Reckon this is going to get interesting.

Hitman3000 · 10-10-2018 01:13PM

Naughten and by extension the bid is looking compromised.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 02:50PM

Does anyone else get the impression that the reason for the cosy relationship between McCourt and the Minister was that Naughten was so terrified of McCourt pulling out and the NBP failing he was doing everything in his power to keep him sweet.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 02:54PM

Newstalk edited the interview with McCourt for their playback show overnight removing the part where he called the Luxembourg firm incompetent. Pat Kenny’s disclaimer at the end of the interview was removed also.

uncle_sam_ie · 10-10-2018 02:55PM

Sorry, haven't been paying attention to all this lately So whats the story? Is the whole NBP FUBAR? Are we back to square one, waiting for a brand new government initiative with a new set of promises?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 02:58PM

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

Sorry, haven't been paying attention to all this lately So whats the story? Is the whole NBP FUBAR? Are we back to square one, waiting for a brand new government initiative with a new set of promises?

No it's still on track though there is a lot of political noise around the process. I don't think there has been any issue large enough to cause the process to fail yet. Who knows what will emerge in the coming weeks though.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 04:01PM

KOR101 wrote: »

"Enet never wanted to build the network and told the government as much. Instead, it wanted the network to be owned by the state and Enet would operate it.

When the department settled on a private ownership model, Enet was forced to seek help. SSE, a British infrastructure company, was brought on board, as was John Laing for its knowledge of public-private partnerships. "

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-broadband-plan-became-tangled-web-n3khrjt50

That has been the most damning thing I've read so far. That the only bidder left did not want the current ownership model is troubling.

westyIrl · 10-10-2018 04:13PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

That has been the most damning thing I've read so far. That the only bidder left did not want the current ownership model is troubling.

Better to run the network for the state at a guaranteed profit than risk running a loss by owning it outright. Either way, one would imagine the department could have done something earlier in the process to mitigate the reasons so many bidders found the NBP toxic.

Jim

Johnboy1951 · 10-10-2018 04:14PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

That has been the most damning thing I've read so far. That the only bidder left did not want the current ownership model is troubling.

Considering the way that 'gov' investment has progressed, it might even appear that the state ownership, albeit indirectly, might be on the cards again.

Although I suppose doing that might scupper the present elimination of bidders and allow others back in.

Really difficult to now what might happen.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 04:22PM

https://twitter.com/irelandoffline/status/1050016630707773442

westyIrl · 10-10-2018 04:43PM

It's like watching molasses move at this stage.

Jim

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 06:15PM

Oh ffs RTÉ now reporting that Naughten paid for the McCourt's breakfast in the Dáil.

m99T · 10-10-2018 06:17PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Oh ffs RTÉ now reporting that Naughten paid for the McCourt's breakfast in the Dáil.

"The lunch for David McCourt and his daughter cost €37 and it was deducted from Minister's Naughten's salary in July under the Oireachtas payments system, the spokesperson said."

That could have paid for fuel in one KN van to drive around all day doing nothing and failing installs. Disgraceful misappropriation of funds.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 06:23PM

m99T wrote: »

"The lunch for David McCourt and his daughter cost €37 and it was deducted from Minister's Naughten's salary in July under the Oireachtas payments system, the spokesperson said."

That could have paid for fuel in one KN van to drive around all day doing nothing and failing installs. Disgraceful misappropriation of funds.

The optics are terrible though. The only reason nothing will come of all this is that Fianna Fáil don't want an election.

fritzelly · 10-10-2018 06:25PM

Heading into "bribe" territory, one thing after another - this could finish it

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 06:28PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Heading into "bribe" territory, one thing after another - this could finish it

Nah, the will isn't there for an election. It'll stumble on.

fritzelly · 10-10-2018 06:30PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Nah, the will isn't there for an election. It'll stumble on.

Whats all the malarkey at the moment about trying to force an election then?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 06:33PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Whats all the malarkey at the moment about trying to force an election then?

I'm just going on what RTÉ are reporting. They said Fianna Fáil will not bring down the Government over this.

Johnboy1951 · 10-10-2018 06:33PM

What nonsense!
Naughton paid for breakfast (at the cheapest rates he could get) out of his own pocket.
A huge sum of €37!!!!!!!!!

Wow!

Yeah really 'bribe' territory!

tsue921i8wljb3 · 10-10-2018 06:36PM

Timmy Dooley on now calling for eir and SIRO to be brought back into the process.

fritzelly · 10-10-2018 06:39PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What nonsense!
Naughton paid for breakfast (at the cheapest rates he could get) out of his own pocket.
A huge sum of €37!!!!!!!!!

Wow!

Yeah really 'bribe' territory!

As Navi said, Optics. What next?

BandMember · 10-10-2018 06:41PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Timmy Dooley on now calling for eir and SIRO to be brought back into the process.

Timmy Dooley: Once a clown, always a clown... :rolleyes:

How the f**k can you bring someone back into a process that they voluntarily left and stated publicly that they are not interested in???

Johnboy1951 · 10-10-2018 06:46PM

BandMember wrote: »

Timmy Dooley: Once a clown, always a clown... :rolleyes:

How the f**k can you bring someone back into a process that they voluntarily left and stated publicly that they are not interested in???

They could be given the opportunity to re-engage based on developments since they left ..... such as the change in structure of the remaining bidding group ...... and of course the new numbers of premises as well as the skipped/omitted premises.

I dunno how well that might go down though .......

m99T · 10-10-2018 06:48PM

0-60 Real fast.

No more NBP lads, someone delete the thread.

BandMember · 10-10-2018 06:49PM

In fairness, Eir have said that their aim now is to concentrate on urban areas and not bother with any further rural stuff that they have not already announced/planned while neither Eir nor SIRO have ever even hinted that they are interested in getting back involved with the NBP at all. Just typical guff from Timmy who never lets anything like the facts, truth or reality get in the way of his statements....

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Comments