Mother inflicts serious injuries to baby - judge says jail wouldn't do any good!

ChikiChiki · 10-10-2018 12:50PM

Jeez our judges are a funny sort. Are they actually on commission to keep people out of the jails or something?

This is barbaric stuff.

seamus · 10-10-2018 12:55PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

The child was assaulted. Typically the victim expects not to be around those that assaulted them. Why does the assaulter being the victims mother change this?

She specifically didn't assault the child. Read the link. The prosecution agreed that the injuries were accidentally inflicted.

Those on this thread who are intent on spinning this into an "evil monster TRIES TO KILL HER OWN BABY" narrative, should probably either read the link or examine what biases of their own are causing them to incorrectly assume motives on the part of someone else.

Samuel T. Cogley · 10-10-2018 12:55PM

Violence to and infanticide have always been treated more leniently, it's because of the pressure new mothers are under. Now should yer wan be stopped from seeing this kid and ideally from having kids in the future, absolutely, but jail does no good here. The only message sent out would be 'don't go to the doctor'.

retro:electro · 10-10-2018 12:58PM

seamus wrote: »

She specifically didn't assault the child

She pleaded guilty to wilful assault

Summer wind · 10-10-2018 12:59PM

This evil disgusting bitch should never be allowed near any child. It would turn your stomach to think of her inflicting the catalog of injuries that poor baby endured. How can that stupid judge even try to play down what she has done. She definitely deserves jail time.

Gimme A Pound · 10-10-2018 12:59PM

seamus wrote: »

She specifically didn't assault the child. Read the link. The prosecution agreed that the injuries were accidentally inflicted.

Those on this thread who are intent on spinning this into an "evil monster TRIES TO KILL HER OWN BABY" narrative, should probably either read the link or examine what biases of their own are causing them to incorrectly assume motives on the part of someone else.

Why did the judge say she knew what she was doing was harmful so?

Samuel T. Cogley · 10-10-2018 01:00PM

retro:electro wrote: »

She pleaded guilty to wilful assault

That's a new one, where was that published?

seamus · 10-10-2018 01:00PM

retro:electro wrote: »

She pleaded guilty to wilful assault

Fair point. I saw "the state declined to charge her with assault", without realising there's another category of assault for neglectful actions.

retro:electro · 10-10-2018 01:01PM

Also, for those struggling.

“Judge Keys said that the mother was unable to explain why she persisted “with this behaviour towards the baby knowing that it caused her harm”.

KNOWING IT CAUSED HER HARM.

She knew what she was doing.

Dravokivich · 10-10-2018 01:01PM

seamus wrote: »

She specifically didn't assault the child. Read the link. The prosecution agreed that the injuries were accidentally inflicted.

Those on this thread who are intent on spinning this into an "evil monster TRIES TO KILL HER OWN BABY" narrative, should probably either read the link or examine what biases of their own are causing them to incorrectly assume motives on the part of someone else.

Actions taken by one, causing another to be harmed is not something to be downplayed. The intent can be spun any which way to save the mothers face to some degree, but it's the victim that suffers the trauma regardless of it. This should not be forgotten because this woman is the victims mother.

na1 · 10-10-2018 01:04PM

Keano wrote: »

She battered the poor baby over and over and is still allowed supervised visits.
How is that punishment.

Link

I think the judge is OK if somebody make him:
"a skull fracture, a broken arm and two broken legs"
There is no point of punishing such person

seamus · 10-10-2018 01:04PM

Daisy Dirty Jig wrote: »

Why did the judge say she knew what she was doing was harmful so?

There's a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. For example, getting an injection causes harm, and the person giving the injection knows it causes harm. But causing harm is not the intention of the injection.

In this case, an example would be the torn frenulum; the mother most likely saw blood in the child's mouth after forcing the soother in, but her intention was not to cause that injury. That's basically the difference between malice and neglect/incompetence.

One eyed Jack · 10-10-2018 01:04PM

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Violence to and infanticide have always been treated more leniently, it's because of the pressure new mothers are under. Now should yer wan be stopped from seeing this kid and ideally from having kids in the future, absolutely, but jail does no good here. The only message sent out would be 'don't go to the doctor'.

I do understand where you’re coming from, and certainly it sounds like the most logical thing to do, but I don’t think that either would be beneficial to the child in the long term or secondary benefit the mother if the idea is that she is to be rehabilitated rather than punished. It would also from my point of view be unnecessarily punishing the child by prohibiting them from having any relationship with their mother. I don’t think it would be possible to stop her from having more children in the future either.

Gimme A Pound · 10-10-2018 01:18PM

seamus wrote: »

There's a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. For example, getting an injection causes harm, and the person giving the injection knows it causes harm. But causing harm is not the intention of the injection.

In this case, an example would be the torn frenulum; the mother most likely saw blood in the child's mouth after forcing the soother in, but her intention was not to cause that injury. That's basically the difference between malice and neglect/incompetence.

And the rest of the severe injuries? The judge conceded she knew what she was doing. This sends out a terrible message. Nobody breaks numerous bones as part of unintentional harm.

tretorn · 10-10-2018 01:23PM

The mother is only nineteen and maybe special needs.

We have no way of knowing but the best thing for her now is to be permanently sterilised. I would have made that a condition of her not going to jail.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 10-10-2018 01:24PM

seamus wrote: »

As horrific as it is, I'm going to accept the word of the prosecution and the experts when they say that this woman wasn't malicious, merely incredibly stupid and careless.

What purpose would be served by sending her to jail? Punishing her isn't going to "send a message" to anyone else stupid enough to behave like this, and it's certainly not going to make her a better person.

Supervised visits seems fair enough for the foreseeable future. Until the child is 8 or 9, at least.

Have you been robbed of all your senses? Of all the posts you have on boards.ie, this has to be the dumbest thing you have ever posted (that I know of).

seamus wrote: »

She specifically didn't assault the child. Read the link. The prosecution agreed that the injuries were accidentally inflicted.

Those on this thread who are intent on spinning this into an "evil monster TRIES TO KILL HER OWN BABY" narrative, should probably either read the link or examine what biases of their own are causing them to incorrectly assume motives on the part of someone else.

In the case, the woman pleaded guilty to wilfully assaulting and neglecting the child in a manner likely to cause unnecessary injury to the child’s health and seriously affect her well being.

Maybe she didn't intend to kill her baby, but that's not important. "Ah, begorrah, she didn't try to kill the child, she only meant to inflict serious damage".

a healing fracture of the left tibia
a healing fracture of the right femur
and an older right sided skull fracture.

Those injuries are not minor. That's serious.

Medics also detected a torn frenulum- the muscle under the tongue – and the child’s mother said that this could have occurred as a result of forcing a baby’s bottle or a soother into the baby’s mouth.

The offence took on dates between the summer of 2014 and February 2015 when the mother was aged 19.

The "mother" is an adult, and should be put away for a very long time for inflicting those horrific injuries to a defenseless child.

How you, Seamus, can defend pond scum like that is beyond me. Is it to increase your post count I wonder???

seamus wrote: »

There's a difference between intentional harm and unintentional harm. For example, getting an injection causes harm, and the person giving the injection knows it causes harm. But causing harm is not the intention of the injection.

In this case, an example would be the torn frenulum; the mother most likely saw blood in the child's mouth after forcing the soother in, but her intention was not to cause that injury. That's basically the difference between malice and neglect/incompetence.

Sorry, I accidentally broke my child's legs, skull, arm and tore her tongue. The injuries were on different occasions. This scumbag lowlife absolutely intended to inflict pain on her child. She even admits guilt to assaulting her child. What planet are you living on?

Not putting this piece of shít in jail sends a message alright, it's ok to abuse your child, you break a 5 month olds skull, legs and arm, and you'll be grand. Just say it was an accident. Anybody defending this cancer should be ashamed of themselves.

andekwarhola · 10-10-2018 01:24PM

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Imagine the outrage if this was a man.

To be fair, I'm not exactly seeing a storm of approval as is?

One eyed Jack · 10-10-2018 01:27PM

seamus wrote: »

The state should be raising flags. Call it social profiling, but it's necessary; parents under 18, women with PND, single parents' first child, families long-term on social welfare, etc etc etc.

There are lots of healthcare professionals who see the mother and child in their first month, lots of contact points for a concern to be raised and machinations to kick in and flag someone for additional assistance/observation.

That’s exactly what it is, and it’s inherently discriminatory and prone to subjectivity of those same healthcare professionals who will at best miss all the flags, and at worst - simply ignore all the flags.

The State doesn’t have the kinds of resources that would be required to vet every individual family’s circumstances, and that would only be the cases that come to their attention. There would still be many cases that don’t, precisely due to the prejudices of social profiling and the influence of their own biases and assumptions.

PandaPoo · 10-10-2018 01:32PM

This is literally the story of my life. I was taken to hospital at 6 months old because I was 'blue and not breathing'. Apparently I died twice in the ambulance.

I had a fractured skull, ribs, hairline fracture in my tibia, lots of older badly gealed fractures, covered in bruises, my fingernails were non existent and my fingertips were black. My mother said I was bathed in the kitchen sink and hit my head off the tap, my leg was broken because my older siblings jumped on the bed and fell on me....etc etc.

I was taken into foster care, my mother had 2 older children and went on to have 3 more kids, one was born only a few months after I was taken away. She was allowed keep all her other children with her. My father was the suspect but I've heard a dozen reasons why no action was taken against him.

I had visits with them regularly growing up. I would meet my mother with my social worker and foster mother and was left with her for a few hours.. I never enjoyed the visits and at the time I didn't know why I was even in foster care. I only found out when I was 12, And the details in full when I was 17.

Sorry this is turning into an essay. There's obviously a huge amount more but what I'm trying to get at is that I lived this almost to a tee. I can only hope this baby gets placed with a foster family as amazing as the one I had. What happened to me was the best thing that ever happened, And i hope to god this baby is never given back and can live a good life without these people involved.

I might delete this because I'm not even sure if it makes sense or if I've got across what I mean to say.

Deebles McBeebles · 10-10-2018 01:50PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

To be fair, I'm not exactly seeing a storm of approval as is?

True but I think the idea has some validity. Personally I don't care which sex the parent is, its disgusting either way but if it was the father he surely would have been sent straight to prison.

Deebles McBeebles · 10-10-2018 01:52PM

PandaPoo wrote: »

This is literally the story of my life. I was taken to hospital at 6 months old because I was 'blue and not breathing'. Apparently I died twice in the ambulance.

I had a fractured skull, ribs, hairline fracture in my tibia, lots of older badly gealed fractures, covered in bruises, my fingernails were non existent and my fingertips were black. My mother said I was bathed in the kitchen sink and hit my head off the tap, my leg was broken because my older siblings jumped on the bed and fell on me....etc etc.

I was taken into foster care, my mother had 2 older children and went on to have 3 more kids, one was born only a few months after I was taken away. She was allowed keep all her other children with her. My father was the suspect but I've heard a dozen reasons why no action was taken against him.

I had visits with them regularly growing up. I would meet my mother with my social worker and foster mother and was left with her for a few hours.. I never enjoyed the visits and at the time I didn't know why I was even in foster care. I only found out when I was 12, And the details in full when I was 17.

Sorry this is turning into an essay. There's obviously a huge amount more but what I'm trying to get at is that I lived this almost to a tee. I can only hope this baby gets placed with a foster family as amazing as the one I had. What happened to me was the best thing that ever happened, And i hope to god this baby is never given back and can live a good life without these people involved.

I might delete this because I'm not even sure if it makes sense or if I've got across what I mean to say.

Fair play for posting on something that hits so close to home for you. Its very informative of circumstances most of us won't have seen and enlightening as to the failures in the system.

Gimme A Pound · 10-10-2018 01:53PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

True but I think the idea has some validity. Personally I don't care which sex the parent is, its disgusting either way but if it was the father he surely would have been sent straight to prison.

Dunno though. There are numerous cases of men getting piddlingly crap sentences.

seamus · 10-10-2018 01:53PM

Matthias Acidic Sediment wrote: »

Maybe she didn't intend to kill her baby, but that's not important. "Ah, begorrah, she didn't try to kill the child, she only meant to inflict serious damage".

This is completely incorrect. There was no intention to cause harm.

Go read it again.

How you, Seamus, can defend pond scum like that is beyond me. Is it to increase your post count I wonder???

I'm not defending her at all.

I'm simply pointing out that on the basis of the facts presented in the article, the sentence imposed seems reasonable and well-considered.

Anyone who thinks they know better than the judges, Gardai, prosecutors & health professionals based on a short and clearly biased article, is displaying a rather astonishing amount of arrogance.

Keano · 10-10-2018 01:57PM

seamus wrote: »

This is completely incorrect. There was no intention to cause harm.

Go read it again.
I'm not defending her at all.

I'm simply pointing out that on the basis of the facts presented in the article, the sentence imposed seems reasonable and well-considered.

Anyone who thinks they know better than the judges, Gardai, prosecutors & health professionals based on a short and clearly biased article, is displaying a rather astonishing amount of arrogance.

He said that the standard of care provided to the baby “fell well below of what one would one expect from a mother and was totally unacceptable”.

Judge Keys said that the mother was unable to explain why she persisted “with this behaviour towards the baby knowing that it caused her harm”.

These 2 lines alone should have got her jail time.

You can argue what you want about intent or whatever but she knew exactly what she was doing every time to that child but sadly our state let that child down by not punishing her abuser.

Gimme A Pound · 10-10-2018 02:00PM

seamus wrote: »

This is completely incorrect. There was no intention to cause harm.

Go read it again.
I'm not defending her at all.

I'm simply pointing out that on the basis of the facts presented in the article, the sentence imposed seems reasonable and well-considered.

Anyone who thinks they know better than the judges, Gardai, prosecutors & health professionals based on a short and clearly biased article, is displaying a rather astonishing amount of arrogance.

People's upset is still understandable though.

The way the judge downplayed it and shifted responsibility is disgusting. The way it's said in one place she knew what she was doing, another place it was not deliberate (sure thing - sher don't we all break bones without meaning to? :rolleyes:) and the way it's clear she was able to use the manipulative "I'm a victim too" ****e as if she's the only mother who is overwhelmed and has PND.

10-10-2018 02:04PM

PandaPoo wrote: »

This is literally the story of my life. I was taken to hospital at 6 months old because I was 'blue and not breathing'. Apparently I died twice in the ambulance.

I had a fractured skull, ribs, hairline fracture in my tibia, lots of older badly gealed fractures, covered in bruises, my fingernails were non existent and my fingertips were black. My mother said I was bathed in the kitchen sink and hit my head off the tap, my leg was broken because my older siblings jumped on the bed and fell on me....etc etc.

I was taken into foster care, my mother had 2 older children and went on to have 3 more kids, one was born only a few months after I was taken away. She was allowed keep all her other children with her. My father was the suspect but I've heard a dozen reasons why no action was taken against him.

I had visits with them regularly growing up. I would meet my mother with my social worker and foster mother and was left with her for a few hours.. I never enjoyed the visits and at the time I didn't know why I was even in foster care. I only found out when I was 12, And the details in full when I was 17.

Sorry this is turning into an essay. There's obviously a huge amount more but what I'm trying to get at is that I lived this almost to a tee. I can only hope this baby gets placed with a foster family as amazing as the one I had. What happened to me was the best thing that ever happened, And i hope to god this baby is never given back and can live a good life without these people involved.

I might delete this because I'm not even sure if it makes sense or if I've got across what I mean to say.

Glad it turned out well for you in the end. I know people who foster and the kids are great but how they ended up there is always shocking. And in every case so far the mother has more kids afterwards and they're eventually placed in foster care as well.
If I were in a position to foster I'd do it without a second's hesitation and Christ knows a huge amount more foster places are needed throughout the country.

Captain Obvious · 10-10-2018 02:08PM

Whatever about punishing her, they seem to be considering providing her unsupervised access in the future. She should not be anywhere near kids. She either maliciously inflicted the injuries or she is stupid to a dangerous level.

PandaPoo · 10-10-2018 02:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Glad it turned out well for you in the end. I know people who foster and the kids are great but how they ended up there is always shocking. And in every case so far the mother has more kids afterwards and they're eventually placed in foster care as well.
If I were in a position to foster I'd do it without a second's hesitation and Christ knows a huge amount more foster places are needed throughout the country.

My foster parents continued to foster and it really is but wrenching some of the cases you hear. I'll do it myself in future but right now my children are too young.

My birth parents had 3 more children, they weren't abused that anyone knows of but they all had problems with drugs/school/the gardai from very young ages. It baffles me how they were seen as unfit to raise me but 6 months later they had a brand new baby they were allowed raise. It's just insane.

10-10-2018 02:59PM

How could she unintentionally cause such injuries it dose not make sence.

JP Liz V1 · 17-10-2018 09:22PM

Summer wind wrote: »

This evil disgusting bitch should never be allowed near any child. It would turn your stomach to think of her inflicting the catalog of injuries that poor baby endured. How can that stupid judge even try to play down what she has done. She definitely deserves jail time.

I am agree, that poor baby, how could anyone let alone a parent do that

Mother inflicts serious injuries to baby - judge says jail wouldn't do any good!

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