Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 08:20PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Dirt's not even cheap these days, ask Greyhound.

Can you give us a list of these special promotions so we can establish for ourselves how accessible they are? I keep hearing rumours on this thread of cheap alcohol in pubs but no definite leads.

If there is no cheap alcohol then you have no need to worry about a minimum price.

Reputable Rog · 04-10-2018 08:22PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes it is. Slabs of cans are dirt cheap in some retailers and in the pubs there are special promotions making alcohol all too accessible. A minimum price is absolutely imperative.

It would be more in their line to study, work or volunteer.

You're a modern day Matt Talbot.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 08:30PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Ireland runs a fiscal deficit and is in debt to the tune of 200 billion +. I assure you, self restraint now would be better than dealing with reality when the time comes to pay the piper.

Germany has a fiscal surplus of 50 billion. It also has many Oktoberfests and alcohol can be had for half the price in their supermarkets and pubs as it is here.
I don't believe there is an economic link between the two, but if you aren't just trolling and somehow think the two are connected, logically you should be arguing for a reduction in prices.

Hotblack Desiato · 04-10-2018 08:38PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm assuming your only concern for your fellow citizens is how much they are costing you in tax.

Sure looks that way. What a horrible way to live.

joe40 · 04-10-2018 08:52PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

realitykeeper wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. As far as I know the age limit in most other EU countries is 18 just as it is in Ireland. In Ireland, salaries are fairly good (too good in my opinion) hence the cost of living is generally higher.

Culturally, the Irish are known for drinking and to slay that dragon we need unapologetically draconian legislation with much higher prices.

Do you ever get the impression this forum is rim full of feckin' school teachers?. FFS

It seems the vast majority on this forum are totally opposed to mup, so you're probably right, they're feckin school teachers.

Mr. teddywinkles · 04-10-2018 10:42PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

There are different reasons why drink is cheap, in the above case the motive may be footfall but the consequence is the same as when drink is given away cheaply to lure another generation into the habit of drinking alcohol. Hence the necessity for the legislation.

The sooner ya get you head around the fact alcohol is not cheap here the sooner a rational discussion can be achieved.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 04-10-2018 11:36PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

The sooner ya get you head around the fact alcohol is not cheap here the sooner a rational discussion can be achieved.

What do you mean by "not cheap"?
not cheap in relation to what/where?

hatrickpatrick · 05-10-2018 01:19AM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

What do you mean by "not cheap"?
not cheap in relation to what/where?

The entire rest of Europe, essentially.

realitykeeper · 05-10-2018 04:51AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Germany has a fiscal surplus of 50 billion. It also has many Oktoberfests and alcohol can be had for half the price in their supermarkets and pubs as it is here.
I don't believe there is an economic link between the two, but if you aren't just trolling and somehow think the two are connected, logically you should be arguing for a reduction in prices.

I did not say drink was linked to our high levels of debt. There is an economic link does between this country`s pay rates and it`s level of debt. There is a cultural link to alcoholism in this country. For example, a lot of people take pride instead of shame in company`s that manufacture products like Guinness (aka Diageo).

realitykeeper · 05-10-2018 04:54AM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

The sooner ya get you head around the fact alcohol is not cheap here the sooner a rational discussion can be achieved.

If drink is not cheap you have no reason to object to a minimum price.

VinLieger · 05-10-2018 07:22AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

If drink is not cheap you have no reason to object to a minimum price.

Its already massively overpriced and this will only increase the cost further so yes people do have a reason to object to MUP

odyssey06 · 05-10-2018 07:36AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

I did not say drink was linked to our high levels of debt. There is an economic link does between this country`s pay rates and it`s level of debt. There is a cultural link to alcoholism in this country. For example, a lot of people take pride instead of shame in company`s that manufacture products like Guinness (aka Diageo).

And no German in history has ever taken pride in German beer? Or schnapps?
The French, Spanish and Italians in their wine?
The Scotch or Japanese with their whisky?
The Czechs and beer?

There is no connection between taking pride in the output of your country and anything to do with economics or alcoholism.

And finally, the German NAZIS recruited in BEER HALLs. Minimum alcohol pricing wouldn't have stopped that, so clearly it's a useless device.

Leroy42 · 05-10-2018 08:10AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Its already massively overpriced and this will only increase the cost further so yes people do have a reason to object to MUP

Overpriced is a relative term. For example, I think Apple products are all massively overpriced, yet millions of people buy them, so it would appear that I am wrong in that perception.

Alcohol is overpriced compared to other markets is true, but our levels of consumption would appear to suggest that our pricing for alcohol is not massively overpriced.

Price is the amount that people are willing to pay for something, if they continue to pay that price then each individual has made the decision that the price is worth paying for what they what. Of course they would like it be be cheaper, but given the option to pay or go without, they choose to pay. Therefore, in terms of pricing for the market, it is not overpriced.

The real tell from this, when it does come into effect, is that I would expect to see a massive drop off in the off licence sales as people see the product as over priced and thus opt for alternatives.

joe40 · 05-10-2018 08:16AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

I did not say drink was linked to our high levels of debt. There is an economic link does between this country`s pay rates and it`s level of debt. There is a cultural link to alcoholism in this country. For example, a lot of people take pride instead of shame in company`s that manufacture products like Guinness (aka Diageo).

I would be in favour of MUP if it helps to reduce problem drinking/excessive binge drinking especially among teenagers. (and I accept it is an "if") But that is not the same as demonising all alcohol and eventually looking for some sort of alcohol free society.

As a previous poster pointed out French and Italian culture is inextricably linked with wine.

Alcohol is a drug and should be treated with respect, but at the same time it provides a wonderful means of relaxation, and is mostly great in social occasions.
Like many things, severe problems can occur when it is misused, but the answer is not prohibition, it is better education and enforcement
The recent survey on teen drunkenness is heartening, in that we are improving in this regard, but not there yet.

VinLieger · 05-10-2018 08:37AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Alcohol is overpriced compared to other markets is true, but our levels of consumption would appear to suggest that our pricing for alcohol is not massively overpriced.

Our prices are the 2nd highest in europe by ALOT

Our consumption rates at 7th highest in the EU with Germany at 8th and Latvia, Luxembourg, Austria, Czech Republic, France and Lithuania above us in that order, so no our levels of consumption would definitely appear to suggest our pricing for alcohol is indeed massively overpriced

Here's pricing data from the UK published this year, Latvia the 6th highest consumer in the EU are 9th on price at about 15% above the EU average. We are about 75% above the EU average while the the other 6 above us on consumption and Germany all fall below the average price so your argument that our prices reflect our consumption makes no sense especially when you compare it with the chart for consumption here

Im not arguing we should be below the eu average or even at the eu average but our prices are massively out of step with the rest of the continent when considering our consumption rates.

joe40 · 05-10-2018 08:52AM

VinLieger wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

Alcohol is overpriced compared to other markets is true, but our levels of consumption would appear to suggest that our pricing for alcohol is not massively overpriced.

Our prices are the 2nd highest in europe by ALOT

Our consumption rates at 7th highest in the EU with Germany at 8th and Latvia, Luxembourg, Austria, Czech Republic, France and Lithuania above us in that order, so no our levels of consumption would definitely appear to suggest our pricing for alcohol is indeed massively overpriced

Here's pricing data from the UK published this year, Latvia the 6th highest consumer in the EU are 9th on price at about 15% above the EU average. We are about 75% above the EU average while the the other 6 above us on consumption and Germany all fall below the average price so your argument that our prices reflect our consumption makes no sense especially when you compare it with the chart for consumption here

Im not arguing we should be below the eu average or even at the eu average but our prices are massively out of step with the rest of the continent when considering our consumption rates.

But surely pricing is determined by the market demand. The manufacturers and retailers have the sole purpose of maximising profits, so they will sell their product at the maximum price the particular market will take.
I know a lot of the price is excise, but that tax would have to be gotten from other sources if not alcohol.
I would prefer excise duty on alcohol than extra tax on food or fuel.
The price in other markets is not relevant to price here unless we are talking about essential services that people can't do without.

Leroy42 · 05-10-2018 08:53AM

I think it says the opposite. Surely with the 2nd highest prices we should be nowhere near the top 10 in consumption. There is no doubt that lower prices would see higher consumption rates, and as such then MAP must be seen as a good thing. IMO, your post only serves to prove the point.

But regardless of where we sit on the league tables, as I said the price whatever consumers are willing to pay for a product. No phone is 'worth' €1,000 in terms of the work and components, but the marketing, the feelings that usability all add to the price that people are willing to pay. Are Apple overprices, IMO yes. Are people willing to pay that price, so far yes, so in actual market terms they are priced correctly.

So, is alcohol overpriced compared to other EU countries? Yes, clearly. So people have the option. Refuse to buy it, buy it in other countries, make it themselves or simply pay the price. So far, despite the high prices, people continue to opt for the last option in the main.

So I think we are simply talking about two slightly different things (and I am probably not explaining my point very well).

VinLieger · 05-10-2018 09:07AM

joe40 wrote: »

The price in other markets is not relevant to price here unless we are talking about essential services that people can't do without.

The argument the poster i was replying to was presenting was that our consumption rate showed our pricing made sense when compared to other markets, whereas the data shows it does not.

Also other markets pricing is definitely relevant no matter the product, especially so in this case as our consumption rate keeps being brought as a problem up however comparing it to other countries it is nowhere near as bad as some would like to make out.

Leroy42 · 05-10-2018 09:17AM

VinLieger wrote: »

The argument the poster i was replying to was presenting was that our consumption rate showed our pricing made sense, whereas the data shows it does not.

Well not quite. It doesn't show the pricing doesn't make sense. It shows that we would tolerate a far higher pricing. If the pricing was too high then the consumption would be much less, but a 2nd highest price results in 7th highest consumption. For your argument to make sense a 2nd highest price would lead a 2nd lowest consumption.

The pricing appears to have have had a negative effect on consumption, hence why we are down in 7th.

I wonder what the split of consumption is between offy and pub? Are there reliable stats. Anecdotally I would assume that Offy sales sales grown whilst pub sales have dropped, but I am not sure what the split is.

sbsquarepants · 05-10-2018 09:33AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

The "punishment" is priceless for the majority. Sure the cost of drink will be more expensive but on the plus side, it will cost more for the minority to get drunk. Drunk people tend to cause more accidents, get into more fights, they tend to be louder, more obnoxious and smellier than your average Joe.

So higher prices have a definite benefit.

They might benefit publicans. Plus it's another stealth tax in reality (who gets the extra money on each bottle / can?)

The sort of knob end who gets steaming drunk and makes a twat of themselves will still do just that. Alco's will drink regardless of price. When have you ever heard someone say "Jaysus paddy was mad on the pints till the last budget, he said that extra 10p a pint was the straw that broke the camels back!"

Mr + Mrs sensible who stay home and watch a movie with a bottle of wine or a few beers will just have to fork out more of their hard earned cash for that "privilege"

It's a stupid idea.

If FG were left to their own devices they'd implement a national bedtime, and the usual toss bags would be on here supporting them "because a good nights sleep is in everyone's interest"

Shower of fúcking blue shirts:mad::mad:

VinLieger · 05-10-2018 10:44AM

joe40 wrote: »

I know a lot of the price is excise, but that tax would have to be gotten from other sources if not alcohol.
I would prefer excise duty on alcohol than extra tax on food or fuel.

Is this not indicative of another problem though? Some say our population is dependant on alcohol but due to the excise being so high our government could be said to be equally if not more dependent on it as it brings in such a large amount of taxes.

Surely we should be moving away from being so dependent on one specific sector for tax and broadening the tax base in this regard?

Macker · 05-10-2018 03:37PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

€12.50 for a bottle of Gin! I presume you go blind after a few shots.

Jesus - it's no wonder this minimum pricing legislation is required.

So you think a E30 bottle of Gordons is better than a 12.50 bottle from Aldi. Lidl or Tesco? It's called own brand and happens with a lot of goods ye know.

KrustyUCC · 05-10-2018 04:13PM

Just pure snobbery

The Rape of Lucretia · 05-10-2018 06:40PM

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Just pure snobbery

Is the root of all alcohol drinking. Spot on. Vanity if you will. Posturing and affecting to display to the world one's specialness by choice of drink, when really it is just an indicator of how gullible they are to the traps of the advertising campaigns. This price increase, if it even reduces consumption by the merest smidgeon, is a dashed good thing indeed.

realitykeeper · 05-10-2018 07:24PM

I would suggest alcohol should be used as a fuel instead of drinking it.

realitykeeper · 05-10-2018 07:32PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

And no German in history has ever taken pride in German beer? Or schnapps?
The French, Spanish and Italians in their wine?
The Scotch or Japanese with their whisky?
The Czechs and beer?

There is no connection between taking pride in the output of your country and anything to do with economics or alcoholism.

And finally, the German NAZIS recruited in BEER HALLs. Minimum alcohol pricing wouldn't have stopped that, so clearly it's a useless device.

The Germans take more pride in their engineering prowess and as for the wine producers, their is quite a difference between the wine connoisseur savoring the aroma of a fine Margaux and a fat sweaty red neck downing his twentieth pint o` stout.

realitykeeper · 05-10-2018 07:39PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

They might benefit publicans. Plus it's another stealth tax in reality (who gets the extra money on each bottle / can?)

The sort of knob end who gets steaming drunk and makes a twat of themselves will still do just that. Alco's will drink regardless of price. When have you ever heard someone say "Jaysus paddy was mad on the pints till the last budget, he said that extra 10p a pint was the straw that broke the camels back!"

Mr + Mrs sensible who stay home and watch a movie with a bottle of wine or a few beers will just have to fork out more of their hard earned cash for that "privilege"

It's a stupid idea.

If FG were left to their own devices they'd implement a national bedtime, and the usual toss bags would be on here supporting them "because a good nights sleep is in everyone's interest"

Shower of fúcking blue shirts:mad::mad:

With a minimum price, the alcoholic will run out of money sooner which is great. Mr & Mrs Sensible`s bottle of wine would be above the MUP anyway so they will not be affected at all.

Mr. teddywinkles · 05-10-2018 07:43PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

If drink is not cheap you have no reason to object to a minimum price.

So I should pay more again for a few misable beers I have at weekend just because a minority can't control themsrlves no matter what the price is raised to

The Rape of Lucretia · 05-10-2018 07:50PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

So I should pay more again for a few misable beers I have at weekend just because a minority can't control themsrlves no matter what the price is raised to

For the last time, damn it, its not about the minority. This is a law for the general good of everybody. Its nothing to do with alcoholics. Its about the average person still under the illusion that a few drinks are doing them no harm. Reduction for all, improves the lives of all. It isnt punishing anyone. It is rewarding everyone, and thus society as a whole.

Reputable Rog · 05-10-2018 07:55PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

For the last time, damn it, its not about the minority. This is a law for the general good of everybody. Its nothing to do with alcoholics. Its about the average person still under the illusion that a few drinks are doing them no harm. Reduction for all, improves the lives of all. It isnt punishing anyone. It is rewarding everyone, and thus society as a whole.

Why do you care what somebody else is lawfully doing? I bet you drive around with pro life stickers on your car as well, imposing your views on everyone.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Comments