Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Glass Prison 1214 · 03-10-2018 11:49AM

Weathercheck wrote: »

Victim blame ? I watched the video and apart from the obvious dangerous driving - my takeaway was that the cyclist was very central on the road. Apologies.

The cyclist is in the exact part of the road that he/she should be. It is not the cyclist's job to be as far left as possible so cars can overtake quicker. It is the responsibility of cars and other overtaking traffic to wait until it is safe to overtake.

Alanstrainor · 03-10-2018 12:06PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VrOM_4vNoU

Weathercheck wrote: »

What position were you on the road? - You seem quite central? Could you have moved a little nearer the path?

Looks like the driver was trying to avoid a head on collsion! Dangerous driving indeed.

The driver overtook more one car and decided to plough through behind the Nissan Note who was overtaking me (The Nissan was already dangerous given the approaching traffic on the right). Rather than pull in behind me the black golf carried on the overtake despite the oncoming traffic. They are obliged to yield to oncoming traffic when overtaking, to not do so would be anarchy.

My position was not even central to the lane, I was less than 1M from the kerb. Moving a few cm to the left does not make it safe for people to overtake in this circumstance.

I'll be calling traffic watch after lunch.

Alanstrainor · 03-10-2018 12:07PM

yop wrote: »

Shocking stuff. But at least they go to their destination 10 seconds quicker than if they waited behind you and considered your life, family and friends.

There was a tractor in front doing about 30km/h, I caught up with the passer about 20 seconds after this. They gained nothing.

amcalester · 03-10-2018 12:13PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There was a tractor in front doing about 30km/h, I caught up with the passer about 20 seconds after this. They gained nothing.

As is usually the case.

Kamili · 03-10-2018 12:14PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'll be calling traffic watch after lunch.

I'm glad, that was disgraceful, thankfully you are ok. Could have ended up way worse.

Seth Brundle · 03-10-2018 12:21PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There was a tractor in front doing about 30km/h, I caught up with the passer about 20 seconds after this. They gained nothing.

Did you say or do anything to make them aware that they are a dangerous idiot?

Alanstrainor · 03-10-2018 12:26PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Did you say or do anything to make them aware that they are a dangerous idiot?

I caught up behind them, wasn't going to try and pass to make a point and look like an nutter. Hopefully the gardai calling to their house will be enough...

Mc Love · 03-10-2018 12:52PM

Just saw this on twitter

https://twitter.com/madebycliff/status/1047239943481954304?s=20

coward · 03-10-2018 12:59PM

Glass Prison 1214 wrote: »

Roughly 1 metre from the path is a good distance to keep, for your own safety.

I had posted a video of dangerous passing (couldn't call them overtakes!) earlier in this thread and the advice here was to keep further out from the left. Can't +1 this advice enough! My adventures along the New Nangor Road have been very pleasant and incident free since.

It won't prevent dangerous stuff like Alanstrainor had but it cuts out passing within the same lane.

Duckjob · 03-10-2018 01:06PM

Mc Love wrote: »

Just saw this on twitter

The driving on that video is so ludracrisly bad it's begging to be sped up in a forward/backward loop with Benny Hill music.

rodneyTrotter. · 03-10-2018 01:11PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

This was one of the worst I've experienced. I would say there was a couple of millimetres in this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VrOM_4vNoU

I cycle this route most days myself with a camera. I’ve had a few of these . I reported one to traffic watch near there and heard nothing for two weeks

Then malahide station came back to me . They informed me they would call up to the house .
I then got another call a few days later from the guard in question. I didn’t take it any further but at least I got the satisfaction of the guard calling upto the house and telling her what she did . Of course she didn’t even know she nearly hit me , well that what she said to the guard anyway .

So definitely worth ringing traffic watch

BikeRacer · 03-10-2018 01:15PM

The red yaris must of flashed to let them out, the silver golf flashes the hazards to say thanks just before it hits him. Wasn't even looking for anyone in the cycle lane.

mloc123 · 03-10-2018 01:32PM

Mc Love wrote: »

Just saw this on twitter

https://twitter.com/madebycliff/status/1047239943481954304?s=20

I don't know... the silver car is in the wrong here but the cyclist does nothing to avoid the follow up incident (turning into the petrol station).

Drivers are idiots, doesn't matter if you are on a bike or in a car... If a car pulled out in front of me like that I would not chance passing somebody that makes such poor decisions at speed on the inside.

average_runner · 03-10-2018 01:43PM

Duckjob wrote: »

The driving on that video is so ludracrisly bad it's begging to be sped up in a forward/backward loop with Benny Hill music.

The driver was in the wrong for pulling out, but the cyclists should of never undertook him again while the indicator was still on.

JazzyJ · 03-10-2018 01:44PM

Mc Love wrote: »

Just saw this on twitter

https://twitter.com/madebycliff/status/1047239943481954304?s=20

I've always wondered at what point do these rules of the road apply in a scenario similar to above?

(b) “A pedal cyclist may overtake on the left where vehicles to the pedal cyclist’s right are stationary or are moving more slowly than the overtaking pedal cycle, except where the vehicle to be overtaken—

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

It seems very vague. Is it the case, if a vehicle is indicating left and a cyclist is behind, then they've right of way and woe betide the cyclist; or does the vehicle have to complete the maneuver before the cyclist passes through - absolving the cyclist of all blame in an incident such as this.

For me, when I see a car indicating left, I'm not going up the inside.

So while in the above situation the initial turn by the car was terrible - I'm conflicted by the turn into the petrol station, and I'd consider the cyclist as having to bear an amount of responsibility (albeit quite small).

average_runner · 03-10-2018 01:46PM

Alanstrainor wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VrOM_4vNoU

The driver overtook more one car and decided to plough through behind the Nissan Note who was overtaking me (The Nissan was already dangerous given the approaching traffic on the right). Rather than pull in behind me the black golf carried on the overtake despite the oncoming traffic. They are obliged to yield to oncoming traffic when overtaking, to not do so would be anarchy.

My position was not even central to the lane, I was less than 1M from the kerb. Moving a few cm to the left does not make it safe for people to overtake in this circumstance.

I'll be calling traffic watch after lunch.

That's crazy over taking. Just careless for the cyclist and traffic coming towards him/her. If he/she had hit the other car, the cyclist and the other car driver would of have the potential for serious injuries.

Hurrache · 03-10-2018 01:49PM

average_runner wrote: »

The driver was in the wrong for pulling out, but the cyclists should of never undertook him again while the indicator was still on.

JazzyJ wrote: »

if a vehicle is indicating left and a cyclist is behind, then they've right of way and woe betide the cyclist; .......

For me, when I see a car indicating left, I'm not going up the inside.

The hazards were on, the car wasn't indicating to go either direction by the looks of it.

I reckon what happened is that it was indicating left as it was exiting from Ballymount, left the indicator on, but also hit the hazards which disguised the fact the indicator was already on.

average_runner · 03-10-2018 01:54PM

Hurrache wrote: »

The hazards were on, the car wasn't indicating to go either direction by the looks of it.

Even more dangerous to undertake then, as you have no idea what they are up to, are they breaking down or running out of fuel.

Dangerous by the driver for pulling out.

Hurrache · 03-10-2018 01:54PM

average_runner wrote: »

Even more dangerous to undertake then, as you have no idea what they are up to, are they breaking down or running out of fuel.

Dangerous by the driver for pulling out.

Or assumed that the motorist was acknowledging their initial mistake.

Duckjob · 03-10-2018 02:09PM

average_runner wrote: »

The driver was in the wrong for pulling out, but the cyclists should of never undertook him again while the indicator was still on.

It's piss-poor driving whatever way you want to cut it.

Only mistake the cyclist made was not recognising the car drivers driving standard to be so horrendously bad drivers that they might follow up such a sh*tty maneuver with an even sh*ttier one.

If that's the level of expectation we're putting on drivers to drive competently, and the expectation we're putting on those around them not to get maimed by their stupidity then that's a pretty sad state of affairs.

average_runner · 03-10-2018 02:11PM

Duckjob wrote: »

It's piss-poor driving whatever way you want to cut it.

Only mistake the cyclist made was not recognising the car drivers driving standard to be so horrendously bad drivers that they might follow up such a sh*tty maneuver with an even sh*ttier one.

If that's the level of expectation we're putting on drivers to drive competently, and the expectation we're putting on those around them not to get maimed by their stupidity then that's a pretty sad state of affairs.

That's where we are at on the irish roads. 98% of us are good, 2% are crazy and stupid.

mloc123 · 03-10-2018 02:26PM

average_runner wrote: »

That's where we are at on the irish roads. 98% of us are good, 2% are crazy and stupid.

And that 2% will not change... They do not care about new legislation, awareness campaigns etc.. etc..

Seth Brundle · 03-10-2018 02:29PM

average_runner wrote: »

That's where we are at on the irish roads. 98% of us are good, 2% are crazy and stupid.

That's a massive overestimation of the percentage of "good" drivers!

mloc123 · 03-10-2018 02:34PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

That's a massive overestimation of the percentage of "good" drivers!

Is it?

When I go for a cycle most days I meet 100 cars easily, I rarely have an issue with how they pass me. On average cycling 6 days a week I probably have 1-2 encounters with bad drivers (from a cyclists perspective - poor at over taking, not observant enough etc..)

They represent a pretty small % of the number of drivers I meet each day.

Zulu · 03-10-2018 02:40PM

mloc123 wrote: »

Is it?

When I go for a cycle most days I meet 100 cars easily, I rarely have an issue with how they pass me. On average cycling 6 days a week I probably have 1-2 encounters with bad drivers (from a cyclists perspective - poor at over taking, not observant enough etc..)

They represent a pretty small % of the number of drivers I meet each day.

I cycle in and out of dublin in rush hour 3/4 days a week. I've no idea how many cars I pass, but I have about 2 scares daily. At least.
That said, I would pass a lot of cars, so maybe it is 2%

mloc123 · 03-10-2018 02:43PM

Zulu wrote: »

I cycle in and out of dublin in rush hour 3/4 days a week. I've no idea how many cars I pass, but I have about 2 scares daily. At least.
That said, I would pass a lot of cars, so maybe it is 2%

Thats the thing... you remember the bad ones as they stand out, but they are still a small % of the over number you meet each day.

CramCycle · 03-10-2018 02:50PM

Your making the assumption that the rest are good rather than either adequate or simply they were not doing something stupid when they passed you.

99% I meet every day are adequate at the time I meet them. That's it, not good, not bad but adequate at the point they are observable to me. It does nto mean that a number of these were not stupid at some point before or after the point they were observable to me.

Breezer · 03-10-2018 02:51PM

coward wrote: »

I had posted a video of dangerous passing (couldn't call them overtakes!) earlier in this thread and the advice here was to keep further out from the left. Can't +1 this advice enough! My adventures along the New Nangor Road have been very pleasant and incident free since.

It won't prevent dangerous stuff like Alanstrainor had but it cuts out passing within the same lane.

Indeed. I had one last night, not a near miss, but likely only because I was doing exactly this.

I was coming up to the junction of Harold's Cross bridge in Dublin heading out of town (here) where the cycle lane has been shoehorned halfway into an already narrow driving lane. Late at night, quiet, 2 rear lights, front light and hi viz on). I'm a bit to the right of the cycle lane marking, so primary position in the lane. Stopped at the light. Taxi driver rolls up in the right lane, into the advance stopping box, rolls down the window and begins to lecture me about cycle lanes. After about 5 seconds of attempting a reasoned argument I give up and ignore him as he goes on about how I "nearly caused am accident back there" (on a quiet night, well lit, all traffic moving at a reasonable speed in the same direction, on a straight road).

Anyway I ignore him and at this stage another cyclist has pulled up on my left side, stopping ahead of me just in front of the advance stopping box. Taxi driver moves forward, partially into the junction, through the red light, and begins to congratulate him on his adherence to cycle lanes, "unlike that fella behind you."

Now I really don't care what a willfully ignorant "professional" driver has to say when he's bored on a slow weekday night. But you don't want someone like that having the chance to try overtake you in a "lane" that's barely a metre wide. Move well out from the kerb and protect yourself.

Funny enough, he sounded very similar to a taxi driver who about a year ago barged into a cycle lane right beside me, not too far from the same spot. When I took it up with him, he informed me, repeatedly, "You come and you go."

ED E · 03-10-2018 02:52PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Your making the assumption that the rest are good rather than either adequate or simply they were not doing something stupid when they passed you.

99% I meet every day are adequate at the time I meet them. That's it, not good, not bad but adequate at the point they are observable to me. It does nto mean that a number of these were not stupid at some point before or after the point they were observable to me.

This distinction is important.

I often see 30-40 phone users in a day if commuting at the right time. That means they're doing it while I pass and I manage to spot it. Chances are of the vehicles I pass in a day a few hundred are due 3pts.

mloc123 · 03-10-2018 02:56PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Your making the assumption that the rest are good rather than either adequate or simply they were not doing something stupid when they passed you.

99% I meet every day are adequate at the time I meet them. That's it, not good, not bad but adequate at the point they are observable to me. It does not mean that a number of these were not stupid at some point before or after the point they were observable to me.

And who is the say the 'bad' ones you meet aren't 'good' the rest of the time... TBH, I don't care about what they do the other times. Adequate is fine to me if adequate does not put me in danger.

The point is, that much like saying "all cyclist break red lights" you cannot also generalise all drivers. The % of total drivers that overtake too close, cut you off, pull out in front of you and in general create near misses is a low %.

My own opinion, you will not change these ones. Bringing in a new minimum passing distance will not change these people.. they already ignore the other rules of the road. New awareness campaigns will not change these people... as they are either oblivious to their mistakes or actively aggressive.

Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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