BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

Marlay wrote: »

For Celbridge though the 324 does not compare to the 67x. 3 trips as opposed to the current 9 eastbound and 8 westbound and it goes through Leixlip and Lucan villages, which the 67x bypasses. That is pretty far from express.

The C4 (67 replacement) will bypass chapelizod and run every 10 minutes at peak. Not much help if you're going from UCD but it is useful for those going from the city centre.

Linking Celbridge and Leixlip is a nice step forward but I suspect it's better handled via a orbital route than bringing everyone through there all the time.

Traffic is already badly backed up from the roundabout to leixlip village in the mornings and from the village to the roundabout in the evenings. I don't know if Leixlip has a traffic management plan but if it doesn't it'd going to badly impact the C spine since there's almost zero bus priority.

sharper wrote: »

The C4 (67 replacement) will bypass chapelizod and run every 10 minutes at peak. Not much help if you're going from UCD but it is useful for those going from the city centre.

Linking Celbridge and Leixlip is a nice step forward but I suspect it's better handled via a orbital route than bringing everyone through there all the time.

Traffic is already badly backed up from the roundabout to leixlip village in the mornings and from the village to the roundabout in the evenings. I don't know if Leixlip has a traffic management plan but if it doesn't it'd going to badly impact the C spine since there's almost zero bus priority.

I know that, and I was happy enough with it, but all the buses are going through Lucan village. It leads to massive delays going home, with very few actually alighting there as far as I can see. My commute is going to be increased to/from the city centre regardless.

MJohnston wrote: »

I'm not:

• The 381 is a BusConnects peak-only route that goes from Malahide to UCD.
• UCD will now be much better connected to the DART line:
  • 15 minute frequency from Blackrock DART using the S6/7 compared to a 30 minute frequency of the existing 17.
  • 5 minute frequency from just beside Sydney Parade DART using the B spine (can't compared this with an existing route because it doesn't exist).
• The 281 provides a 20 minute frequency connection with the peak-only 382 and 384 from Swords (which combine to give a 10 minute frequency) to UCD.

So for commuters from that area it will take significantly longer to commute to work in town in comparison with the 142 as none of the above serve the same areas (Seabury, Waterside as an example are losing their direct connection to Dublin and to the airport). The existing timetable actually underplays the number of buses as a number of 142s start after Malahide such is the demand, that aren't on the timetable. It is an extremely popular service as it runs through the Port Tunnel.

The new 381 in no way replaces and instead replaces the existing 32x which fulfills a completely separate need and is almost a "college commuter"

This plan increases does allow for increased connectivity it also means numerous people using current express routes in North Dublin (and other areas) will spend longer on their commute , which for many people is by far the largest use case. None of the express services are running empty ...... It is almost like commuting to town didn't come into their thinking at all and makes me question the criteria they have used when making decisions

Adding back in express peak time services that utilise a massive asset in the Port Tunnel will help otherwise we will see private operators take up this route (which I suspect might be the plan and is already happening in Swords).

To use Swords as an example, the vast majority of commuters to the centre of town would take the Swords Express and I cannot see any amount of changes to that Spine making it compete on speed. Again a private operator meeting actual demand and needs of it's users

Many commuters look at bus connects and see another 5 hours a week away from family or a journey on which a seat is no longer an option with many direct express (Port Tunnel) routes gone. The answer here seens to be use the already overcrowded trains or use a private operator (so privatisation). As a commuter from North Dublin to Dublin city centre I am a loser in this and Swords aside I think most would feel similar.

naughtb4 wrote: »

So for commuters from that area it will take significantly longer to commute to work in town in comparison with the 142 as none of the above serve the same areas (Seabury, Waterside as an example are losing their direct connection to Dublin and to the airport). The existing timetable actually underplays the number of buses as a number of 142s start after Malahide such is the demand, that aren't on the timetable. It is an extremely popular service as it runs through the Port Tunnel.

The new 381 in no way replaces and instead replaces the existing 32x which fulfills a completely separate need and is almost a "college commuter"

This plan increases does allow for increased connectivity it also means numerous people using current express routes in North Dublin (and other areas) will spend longer on their commute , which for many people is by far the largest use case. None of the express services are running empty ...... It is almost like commuting to town didn't come into their thinking at all and makes me question the criteria they have used when making decisions

Adding back in express peak time services that utilise a massive asset in the Port Tunnel will help otherwise we will see private operators take up this route (which I suspect might be the plan and is already happening in Swords).

To use Swords as an example, the vast majority of commuters to the centre of town would take the Swords Express and I cannot see any amount of changes to that Spine making it compete on speed. Again a private operator meeting actual demand and needs of it's users

Many commuters look at bus connects and see another 5 hours a week away from family or a journey on which a seat is no longer an option with many direct express (Port Tunnel) routes gone. The answer here seens to be use the already overcrowded trains or use a private operator (so privatisation). As a commuter from North Dublin to Dublin city centre I am a loser in this and Swords aside I think most would feel similar.

Why don't you make a submission that requests the return of the 142? Instead of ranting about a whole load of nothing. They're open to modifications, they've said that already! The haste with which you dismiss the idea of interconnecting bus services with other modes (in this case DART) is really disappointing though. We'll get nowhere in this country if people continue to demand direct services that only benefit their own selfish desires. Interchanging isn't that scary, and it will benefit far more people to embrace it.

MJohnston wrote: »

We'll get nowhere in this country if people continue to demand direct services that only benefit their own selfish desires. Interchanging isn't that scary, and it will benefit far more people to embrace it.

But we are being asked to assume that interchanging will be a benefit and that overall this plan will work without having any experience of this in practice. I'm not saying it won't, just that we are expected to take a leap of faith. Which, given experiences of prior infrastructure plans is not easy. Also, I'm only aware of the routes I use and the areas they go through. If I can see for a fact that they will be worse, then of course it is difficult to embrace a plan that promises an as yet unproven benefit. It is not easy to separate a plan from the anticipated half-assed implementation.

MJohnston wrote: »

It's not just a leap of faith, it's an experienced reality of dozens of other cities around the world - even lots of US cities where there's a much worse than 'half assed' approach to infrastructure implementation.

The leap of faith is really more in terms of the ability to deliver on the plan rather than whether it's conceptually sound. We all know the reality of doing things "the right way" in this country even for problems that are considered solved elsewhere.

I don't want my commute to get worse but it is getting worse anyway. Each year is worse than the last and that's just going to continue into the future. The status quo just doesn't exist so no matter how little trust you have in future plans you have to balance that lack of trust against an absolute need for something to change.

My experience of interchanging has tended to be European capitals where it is nearly always some form of underground or metro, with bus being only the first or final leg of a journey. I guess I find it hard to picture this working with the bus network, not because of the concept of the plan, but the road infrastructure it will have to run on. Increasing the frequency of buses being pushed into bottlenecks just doesn't seem as beneficial as some proponents claim. But we can live in hope.

Comments submitted! 39 pages long.

marno21 wrote: »

BusConnects is finished by the looks of things

Dermot O'Leary on a lengthy rant on Morning Ireland this morning about "unravelling a functioning bus network"

The NTA are guilty here of making no attempt whatsoever to counter any of this hysteria

Unfortunately people will think that pbp, FF and the other objector politicians will have done them a favor. The plan certainly needs some tweaking as it would have been a miracle if they had got it perfect from the start but with some revisions and an ability to tweak even after it starts this could be great.

Where else has a similar system been implemented in a city similar to Dublin (size, not a grid layout, no metro or widespread rail)? I know it has been mentioned before but cannot find it

Found Wellington have made a change to a similar system and feedback seems very negative

2020. Will never be done in other words, bar a few half arsed attempts that will fail and be used as an excuse to not implement any more. Depressing, but not surprising in this country.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Heard the plan has been put back for rework until the new year on the radio this evening. That's all folks.

Like it or not, Dublin people have been burned so often by the inability of Dublin Bus to run a reliable service where only one bus is involved, that they're just not going to accept losing existing services and believe the same crowd can successfully operate a network of interchanges instead.

It was never going to be accepted. Too much too quickly.

That's one way to phrase it, but another is that the public consultation closed as scheduled today, and by the new year they will have a revised plan that may or may not be a small tweak of BusConnects, or may or may not be something radically different.

naughtb4 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0928/998615-busconnects-dublin-transport/

"NTA Chief Executive Anne Graham said the original plan to implement Bus Connects has been delayed until 2020 as a result."

Mis-inform, scare monger, obstruct, delay.. rinse and repeat and this will die a death eventually when the money spent gets too big with nothing delivered. NBRU having a giant laugh at the commuter yet again, well done lads, top work! :mad:

...was the plan not always to release a second draft in the new year? I don't know why everyone is hysterical about it being cancelled.