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Documentation for SUSI

2

Comments

  • #32
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    5tuck wrote: »
    Why is it that all other departments in the DSP take a landlords letter with a utility bill confirming a residence but SUSI don't? Both the people in citizens information and in the DSP i talked to found that strange.

    SUSI is not in DSP


  • #33
    caipin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 ✭caipin


    OP, I feel sorry for you, but SUSI accept a huge amount of documentation to prove independent living and I think it's sort of weird that you don't have a single one of them from any of the places you've lived. If you can't prove that you've been living independently then you can't apply for a grant this way. Do any of the documents they accept go to your parents house in your name? The only thing I can think of for you to do is submit a new application as living with them.


  • #34
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    splinter65 wrote: »
    SUSI is not in DSP

    Didn't say it was, just found it weird that their rules for proof in documentation are so much more strenuous that the DSP, especially when the DSP seems more liable to fraud than SUSI.

    Going to try request a letter from a CWO that visited me last year, but I'm not sure if that will suffice. I got a letter from the DSP sent here this morning outlining my income from there for last year, and I'm hoping that can be used as both a proof of income from last year and a proof of address for this year. I'm still waiting on another one of those with income from this year.

    Evidence of residence for 3 of the last 5 years section seems to accept bank statements, so I might just send 3 bank statements from 2013-16, even though the address on my bank statement hasn't been my residence for over a decade.

    Is there a reason I was sent two identical letters from SUSI about this? I'll contact them later (on hold with IB for an hour after getting a missed call from them whilst speaking to the DSP, finally get through and am told there was no reason I was called) but don't have much hope, they pretty much told me I was going to have to re-submit a claim as a dependent, which isn't going to work for me at this stage and is pretty soul destroying.

    At this rate, I think the most likely outcome is that I will send off whatever documents I can get my hands on in the next few days, and will either receive a letter back telling me I need other evidence of residency, or won't receive correspondence before I can still defer. If things don't work out quickly I think I need to defer to have any hope in hell of getting on BTEA next year. I'll be able to make an early application and hopefully organise things better than I did this year.

    It's either BTEA next year, with 8k in fees for 2019/20, or a grant next year, with 2k in fees for 2019/20 and 20euro a week for rent/food/bills, or things somehow working out this year, which needs to happen very soon. Either way I feel like getting a job, shutting up and trying not to die like the rest of the country might be the most practical solution to my problems right now.


  • #35
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Have requested a letter from the CWO and was also told by SUSI yesterday that it would suffice, so that's good news.

    Still waiting on an illness benefit statement, I've gotten 3 of the same statements about JSA from last year, so I'm a little worried that the IB statement hasn't come yet when I filled them both out at the same time.


  • #36
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Amazing, I call today after sending my documents off earlier in the week and have been told that a new letter has been sent out requesting independent residence proof. I sent two letters from different community welfare officers (one who visited me at said residence) and before I sent off the letters, I called SUSI, read out one of the letters verbatim (they're both the same) and was told that they would be acceptable.

    The first person I talked with today said I just needed to send in a bank statement from 2017. I asked him if he was sure about that. He said yes, and as I heard the credit beep on my phone go I decided to end the conversation. I have already sent in a bank statement from 2017. I topped up and called back and was told by another representative that the bank statement would not be sufficient, that my letters weren't sufficient, and that even if I amended those letters to fit the criteria of the documents required, it still would not be enough (the letters state I collected payment as a single person, and do not explicitly say I was living independently). My credit ran out again.

    Absolute disgrace, I'm at a loose end now. I Can't afford to stay on the phone with them for 2 euro a minute. Will be issuing a formal complaint. I have to seriously consider dropping out of college in the next two weeks now to guarantee a place next year but sure maybe it's not for me seeing as I'm an adult man that can't sort out a student grant.


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  • #37
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    I'm in the same situation. I have proof of independent living for 2018 as I moved house and the bill is in my name.

    However I have nothing they will accept for 2017. It's been erroneously suggested here they they accept a copy of a lease, bank statements, or SW or Revenue letters, that is not true. Also it's very common to pay rent to a home owner that is bills inclusive. Do people have no idea about the current rental crisis? Most people are paying cash to home owners.


  • #38
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    DSP can and do call to see claimants at home to verify that they are living where, and with whom, they say they are living.
    SUSI cannot do that.
    SUSI has to be means tested to ensure that only the people who need it get it.
    If you can’t supply evidence of your means of financial support then there’s not very much can be done about it.
    Best of luck to you.

    DSP have never called to my house but accepted that I was living independently based on bank statements and private leases. You're suggesting it's incompetence on their part ?

    Let's face it, it's completely illogical on SUSI's part.


  • #39
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    I will be penning a complaint letter later on today. From this I'm going to do what I can to try and get in contact with a senior adjudicator there asap, but maybe that's wishful thinking. I have been given so much misdirection and misinformation from the frontline help centre there, it is startling. I won't go into more detail about it here right now, maybe I'll post something up paraphrasing my overall complaint. The majority of it is here already tbh.
    Peter Denham wrote: »
    However I have nothing they will accept for 2017. It's been erroneously suggested here they they accept a copy of a lease, bank statements, or SW or Revenue letters, that is not true. Also it's very common to pay rent to a home owner that is bills inclusive. Do people have no idea about the current rental crisis? Most people are paying cash to home owners.

    Their setup is so cumbersome. The fact that I'm even just thinking about getting a bill phone to talk to them next week is indicative of how difficult they are to deal with, and how obtuse some of their staff are. I believe one member of staff blatantly lied to me yesterday, and I think he did that because he could tell how angry I was and wanted to pass the buck on. Well the buck has been passed.


  • #40
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    I will be penning a complaint letter later on today. From this I'm going to do what I can to try and get in contact with a senior adjudicator there asap, but maybe that's wishful thinking. I have been given so much misdirection and misinformation from the frontline help centre there, it is startling. I won't go into more detail about it here right now, maybe I'll post something up paraphrasing my overall complaint. The majority of it is here already tbh.



    Their setup is so cumbersome. The fact that I'm even just thinking about getting a bill phone to talk to them next week is indicative of how difficult they are to deal with, and how obtuse some of their staff are. I believe one member of staff blatantly lied to me yesterday, and I think he did that because he could tell how angry I was and wanted to pass the buck on. Well the buck has been passed.

    In the end I'll have to reapply as mature dependant and give them details of my mother's state pension. I haven't lived with her in 8 years. Wow they really caught me trying to pull a fast one not declaring all that juicy old age pension money.


  • #41
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    In the end I'll have to reapply as mature dependant and give them details of my mother's state pension. I haven't lived with her in 8 years. Wow they really caught me trying to pull a fast one not declaring all that juicy old age pension money.

    I haven't lived in the house I grew up in for over a decade, and I'm having a lot of issues in regard to my health now that has impacted my familial life severely. Registering as a dependent would have a really negative effect on me emotionally, as a core part of my identity has been that I've lived my adult life independently. Plus, a new claim will likely take much longer than my deadline, and I also have no idea what "the person whom I would depend on" earns, meaning I could easily be in receipt of a far less financially supportive grant than I expected as an independent.

    I'm not really sure what happens now. I've been duped so badly by some of the crowd at SUSI in the last two weeks, and this grant is just one of a few serious issues I'm trying to contend with before my deadline Friday week. All the while college is in full swing and exams will be around the corner in just over a month. I'm clinging on to hope that I could have a really productive and eventful week this week, getting all my loose ends sorted before getting some confirmation of relief by the start of deadline week. But its just as likely at this point that two weeks from today, I find myself out of college, and I have no idea what the knock on consequences of that will be for me emotionally. It will be an absolute disaster from my current perspective.


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  • #42
    Aceandstuff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Aceandstuff


    5tuck wrote: »
    I'm not really sure what happens now. I've been duped so badly by some of the crowd at SUSI in the last two weeks, and this grant is just one of a few serious issues I'm trying to contend with before my deadline Friday week.

    Have you been in contact with SUSI via email? Most phone operators in state-run organisations are hopeless when it comes to details, and you are almost guaranteed a different answer from one of them to the next. I would advise you to get any instructions they give you in writing before trying to meet their requirements. It is likely that they are "duping" you by accident because you are not a "standard" applicant.

    At the end of my initial application to SUSI, and in every renewal application since then, I explained that I do not have any financial support from my parents, and did not know anything about my father's circumstances. It took me a while to get all of the relevant documentation together as well, and I had to strong-arm my father into signing the forms after not contacting him for over a year. That was the year of the massive backlogs in SUSI, and I ended up not getting anything from SUSI until November. Fees were not an issue because I had informed everyone involved that I was applying for SUSI and had no other income, but I was living off of my (tiny) savings. This is just for context...

    At this point, I wouldn't say it's hopeless, but you need to let SUSI know if you *can't* get the relevant information from your parents, e.g. if they live on the other end of the country and haven't spoken to you in years.

    I don't know where you are planning to study, but let them know what your situation is, and that you're still communicating with SUSI. There might be a grace period when it comes to fees for SUSI applicants, or the college might know what is causing your issue. Just keep trying to do SOMETHING, because if you are entitled to a grant or fee payment from SUSI, there has to be some way to prove it.


  • #43
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Aceandstuff wrote: »
    Have you been in contact with SUSI via email?
    I don't know where you are planning to study, but let them know what your situation is, and that you're still communicating with SUSI. There might be a grace period when it comes to fees for SUSI applicants, or the college might know what is causing your issue. Just keep trying to do SOMETHING, because if you are entitled to a grant or fee payment from SUSI, there has to be some way to prove it.

    I'm almost finished my complaint, I will probably send off an email afterwards, Highlighting a particular issue I was confronted with in one of the calls that I do not understand and would leave me with no hope of getting a grant this year if true. I have already been in contact with my College, but I will update them with these proceedings, and hopefully there will not be an issues there, although I believe there is a good chance I will have to pay a 200 euro levy. From here I'll have to make a lot of calls tomorrow and get into a lot of potential arguments. From there, I'll hopefully see some progress by Tuesday. If not, everything I've planned out for the next four years needs to change swiftly.


  • #44
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Even their complaint section is a joke btw. 1000 characters (3 tweets?) and a section of 25mb for attaching files, which if you have anything considerable to attach will run out in no time.


  • #45
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    Even their complaint section is a joke btw. 1000 characters (3 tweets?) and a section of 25mb for attaching files, which if you have anything considerable to attach will run out in no time.

    Hi just an update on the avenue I'm on

    I explained that I was paying rent to a landlord all bills included so have no bills etc and they said fill out this form and it should be grand.

    The form is the "declaration for documents not provided."

    You've probably tried but just in case.


  • #46
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Aceandstuff wrote: »
    Have you been in contact with SUSI via email?

    Just got a reply, I'm pretty sure the person who sent me this email is the same person I talked to over the phone (they have the same name). It might as well be an automated robot on the other end.

    Sent away my grievances in detail, I get a response copy and pasted from the same documentation sheet that they parrot off the phone. The only difference is that they basically just added in brackets - (That thing you sent in, that's not allowed, we're just adding that here now).

    It's getting really bad now. I genuinely thought I'd work this out, but I'm starting to get lost. I don't understand how they can respond in this way, without any nuance or help whatsoever. I've been trying to rebuild my life around going back to College, and SUSI could care less. How do they think I'm trying to scam them?


    •A letter from the Department of Social Protection advising that you were living independently before October 2017 and before September 2018 (letter from Community Welfare Officer is not accepted)

    The part in bold has just been added in out of nowhere.

    Another line in the requirements

    Correspondence from a government department confirming that you are living independently from your parents

    Do they just get to pick and choose which correspondence from government departments they deem desirable? Couldn't they tell me directly who I need to speak to, in any government department, to get a letter that confirms I've lived independently for the last two years? Will they accept a Presidents letter? What's the difference?

    I've sent off questions, I feel like I'll get the exact same copy and pasted document back, maybe with more exceptions and omissions added on to suit SUSI.


  • #47
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    Hi just an update on the avenue I'm on

    I explained that I was paying rent to a landlord all bills included so have no bills etc and they said fill out this form and it should be grand.

    The form is the "declaration for documents not provided."

    You've probably tried but just in case.


    Wow, you know I haven't. Thanks.

    There's a good chance someone has mentioned that on this thread. In fact a SUSI rep might even have mentioned that to me in the past. I'm so caught up and hysterical lately that I'm making all sorts of mistakes. I'm flogging a dead horse here, but would it really have been that hard for them to mention this to me over these last few turbulent days?

    I'll fill that out immediately. Thanks again.


  • #48
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    Wow, you know I haven't. Thanks.

    There's a good chance someone has mentioned that on this thread. In fact a SUSI rep might even have mentioned that to me in the past. I'm so caught up and hysterical lately that I'm making all sorts of mistakes. I'm flogging a dead horse here, but would it really have been that hard for them to mention this to me over these last few turbulent days?

    I'll fill that out immediately. Thanks again.

    Yeah I had spoken with two people and neither mentioned this until I spoke to a third guy today. At the very least it provides you with an opportunity to explain why you don't have the documents on an official SUSI form. Fingers crossed!

    Edit : A rep on Twitter said they dont accept the form. Why does the form exist at all then?


  • #49
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    I was just about to post how it's probably too good to be true considering none of them have mentioned it. Then again what they do and do not mention depends as much on the type of weather there is outside as official policy.


  • #50
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    I was just about to post how it's probably too good to be true considering none of them have mentioned it. Then again what they do and do not mention depends as much on the type of weather there is outside as official policy.

    The guy on the phone said in these instances where documentation simply can't be provided then the form comes into play.

    The guy on Twitter said the form must be completed if they erroneously request information from you that's not applicable (the wording of the form doesn't support this.)

    I've also written to a local TD as a last chance saloon.

    So many weeks wasted because of conflicting and contradictory information from the people as SUSI. It's maddening.


  • #51
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    The guy on Twitter said the form must be completed if they erroneously request information from you that's not applicable (the wording of the form doesn't support this.)

    I've also written to a local TD as a last chance saloon

    That first part sounds very confusing to me. I'm at my wits end anyways. Been in college 9-6 today, feels like its all going to be for nothing.

    I received another email today since I last posted, pretty much the same types of inconsistency in it that I've been dealing with since the start. I was told that a CWO letter may be acceptable, just hours after being told it absolutely wouldn't be. The goalposts just seem to change constantly

    All I can think of doing is pressing on with government departments writing me letters. But regardless of whether i get more written, SUSI reps seem to be allowed to change the rules at the spur of a moment however they see fit.


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  • #52
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    That first part sounds very confusing to me. I'm at my wits end anyways. Been in college 9-6 today, feels like its all going to be for nothing.

    I received another email today since I last posted, pretty much the same types of inconsistency in it that I've been dealing with since the start. I was told that a CWO letter may be acceptable, just hours after being told it absolutely wouldn't be. The goalposts just seem to change constantly

    All I can think of doing is pressing on with government departments writing me letters. But regardless of whether i get more written, SUSI reps seem to be allowed to change the rules at the spur of a moment however they see fit.
    My mother gave me a letter stating that she has been in receipt of Living Alone allowance for 4 years. I also have a copy of my father's death certificate. They've already said on Twitter they won't accept these.

    I have bank statements with the transaction "rent" leaving my account weekly for the 12 months of 2017. I have tonnes of letters from the social welfare to the address, I have a confirmation letter from DSP stating I made a claim out of the address for the duration of 2017, I have letters from revenue and car insurance correspondence, a lease, a letter from the landlord and all of this combined doesn't hold the same value as a utility bill.

    What kind of scheme do they think I was trying to pull? The address I was supposedly secretly living is 250km away from the social welfare office I was claiming from and my part time job. Why would anyone do this?


  • #53
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    Any luck?


  • #54
    5tuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭5tuck


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    Any luck?

    Sorry, I haven't been on for a while because I've seen no progress. I only received a letter from the CWO that I requested over 7 days ago today, so I'm still in the same spot. Just sent my details away again today.

    Did you try get any written correspondence from The Department of Social Protection? I was reading your own thread there where it looked like you did. I'm really screwed if that correspondence doesn't suffice, I think I'll have to give up. I'll continue on with complaints and what not, but the assignments and exams are coming thick and fast and I don't think I'll get on very well when I can't concentrate properly on them. I'm going to look up the student grant appeals board as well soon and see how that goes.


  • #55
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    5tuck wrote: »
    Sorry, I haven't been on for a while because I've seen no progress. I only received a letter from the CWO that I requested over 7 days ago today, so I'm still in the same spot. Just sent my details away again today.

    Did you try get any written correspondence from The Department of Social Protection? I was reading your own thread there where it looked like you did. I'm really screwed if that correspondence doesn't suffice, I think I'll have to give up. I'll continue on with complaints and what not, but the assignments and exams are coming thick and fast and I don't think I'll get on very well when I can't concentrate properly on them. I'm going to look up the student grant appeals board as well soon and see how that goes.

    Yeah I got a letter from them saying I claimed social welfare from the address I don't have a utility bill for. The woman that wrote the letter said she doubted it would make a difference though.

    I filled out the documents not provided form so it actually moved to the assessment stage. But there isn't a pink tick on the "documents assessed" section so they've basically bypassed that part I think, and I guess it's up to whoever is assessing to decide if they accept my evidence.

    I've had a strong response from numerous TD's who are very concerned that they encourage people to reapply as dependant (basically admitting to fraud by saying I provided a false address to the social welfare.) A few have emailed SUSI and are awaiting response.

    A SUSI guy said there are thousands in our shoes, they need to get with the times. Try the documents not provided form, at the very least it gets you to the assessment stage.


  • #56
    misstearheus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭misstearheus


    They're not really €2 a minute are they?!? Did I read that wrong?!?

    O.P. could you ask your local Post Office to create a Letter to verify that you were collecting your Payment there from x time to y time and see how that would go down?!? Everything worth a shot!

    I know someone said getting something off the Post Office wouldn't prove anything as you could either be living somewhere else and going there to collect your money or, a friend could be collecting your money for you or something. But, having a running Statement / Activity-Timeframe of the Post Office Transactions, would, essentially mean and show that D.S.P. were satisfied you were living in the area wouldn't it. And that's all that needs to be proved. Rest assured that if D.S.P. had any doubts whatsoever you weren't living where you said or there was a case of Identity Theft, - they'd stop your Payment and close you off without any cares given!

    I know they have a decent amount of acceptable Documents, but, it's not un-heard of to not have any of those that they accept. Un-common perhaps but un-heard of, no. There's loads of other Documents that prove a person lives at a House that they don't accept!

    If you're giving them a multitude of Documents you're going over and above to try give them something to work with, so... it comes to a point where you have exhausted all Documents you own and nothing is accepted by them! Outside of that, there's nothing really else you can give them and I would be inclined to think, accepting a Post Office Document / Receipt / Letter / Transaction-listing should be strongly advised or motioned to them. By getting the Post Office Payment in the first place D.S.P. approved you living where you said you were living. It isn't really relative that you might be lying about residing there or someone else posing as you. Neither of these two things play a part here because the proof is that D.S.P. were satisfied that you were living there in this time-period. I'd escalate this as high up as is actually possible. Because you sound like you're serious about it and it's getting far too drawn-out now at this stage and you've your plan made out and everything and need to move on with your life! Not be held back. : )


  • #57
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    I was refused. The mountains of documents and intervention of TD's led to nothing.


  • #58
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    I was refused. The mountains of documents and intervention of TD's led to nothing.

    TDs can’t interfere with legislation. If they could there’d be anarchy.


  • #59
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    TDs can’t interfere with legislation. If they could there’d be anarchy.

    Regardless, I'll be filing a complaint against SUSI. I have emails from three of their staff telling me to reapply as dependant. Shocking advice suggesting I lie and say I lived at my home address, after claiming socal welfare from from my actual address.

    Anyone in a licensee agreement that's reading this, ask the home owner to put a bill in your name, it will save you a lot of trouble.

    By the way, half of the stuff you say they accept they actually don't. A lease or rent book is nothing to them.


  • #60
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Peter Denham wrote: »
    Regardless, I'll be filing a complaint against SUSI. I have emails from three of their staff telling me to reapply as dependant. Shocking advice suggesting I lie and say I lived at my home address, after claiming socal welfare from from my actual address.

    Anyone in a licensee agreement that's reading this, ask the home owner to put a bill in your name, it will save you a lot of trouble.

    By the way, half of the stuff you say they accept they actually don't. A lease or rent book is nothing to them.

    You won’t be claiming that you lived at your parents address though. You couldn’t produce documentary evidence that you were financially independent so they must assume you were financially dependent on your family.


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  • #61
    Peter Denham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Peter Denham


    splinter65 wrote: »
    You won’t be claiming that you lived at your parents address though. You couldn’t produce documentary evidence that you were financially independent so they must assume you were financially dependent on your family.

    A year's worth of bank statements highlighting the exact same amount of money leaving my account weekly under the name 'rent' as well as a copy of a lease and a signed letter from my former landlord, my car insurance correspondence with my car registered to that address, payslips from a part time job near the address (over 200km from my family home), a letter from the garda vetting agency confirming I was vetted at that address, letters from revenue to that address all useless.

    Yet a utility bill magically proves I wasn't financially dependant on my family. OK makes loads of sense. You can't pay a bill and be receiving financial support simultaneously from your family?

    You erroneously listed documents deemed as acceptable in your opening post, now that you know that half of what you posted isn't acceptable surely you must admit it's a stupid system?


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