General Irish Government discussion thread [See Post 1805]

It should be universal public housing in my opinion. The state builds the scheme on land we own. They always maintain ownership, you pay roughly 25% of your income as rent. It’s open to all citizens on all incomes. It’s the model they use to house 60% of Vienna’s population and I think it’s fair to say, that is a far better run city than this joke !

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We are using the private market and I agree high density/high rise is a good idea in certain areas, but again they'd need be affordable to the working tax payers without the need of state aid.
Thanks for talking it out.

This is one of the most contradictory statements I think I've read on this forum ever. We have this poster on about social housing building being the only way - the only solution - and then saying that we somehow need a private market to build affordable houses without state aid?

Can someone even start to explain the logic of this statement and what it actually means?

Is it just pure spin or can these posts be confined to the Cafe of AH where they belong?

I was just looking at the below link, imagine being able to get rid of the head serpent? all non FG td's should run on a combined platform of "could it get any worse?" picture of leo varadkar on their posters etc, I'd say the non voters, are most likely for left leaning parties, if it could be spun as a "remove the key figure of evil" way!

"Get out and get him out! " "Five minutes for five better years" whatever. These FG and FF sc*m, there has to be some other practical solution that hoping some new competent party forms and wins enough seats to be a game changer... Them finding some sort of moral conscience is a longer shot than the euromillions!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_West_(D%C3%A1il_constituency)#2016_general_election

blanch152 wrote: »

Fourthly, there isn't a magic money tree

There is, but it only exists for banks.

Has there ever been a case of a Taoiseach not being re-elected ? You say ff, sf would be worse, the worst option is to keep onas we are in my opinion. If the government are acting against the interests of the people, one constituency voting out that snake, would shake things up big time !

Idbatterim wrote: »

Has there ever been a case of a Taoiseach not being re-elected ? You say ff, sf would be worse, the worst option is to keep onas we are in my opinion. If the government are acting against the interests of the people, one constituency voting out that snake, would shake things up big time !

Where do we start with this? OK, let us start with economic growth:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/esri-doubles-2018-growth-forecast-for-irish-economy-1.3641303

"In its latest quarterly economic commentary, the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) has forecast GDP growth of 8.9 per cent for 2018, followed by growth of 4.5 per cent for 2019. This compares with a GDP growth forecast of 4.7 per cent for 2018 and 3.9 per cent for 2019 given by the ESRI in June."

Are you seriously saying that it is not possible for economic growth to get worse?

Well how about unemployment? From the same article we read:

"Unemployment will fall to 5.7 per cent this year, and to 5.1 per cent in 2019, the ESRI has also said"

We are hitting full employment now, can it really not get worse?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/unemployment-at-lowest-level-in-more-than-10-years-866723.html

"“The August jobless rate was the lowest since April 2008 and an almost ten-and-a-half percentage point improvement from the peak of 16% hit in January/February 2012 during the financial crisis,” said Mr McQuaid."

So 16% down to 5.1% over the course of FG's time in government, and it couldn't get any worse?

Even in a no-deal Brexit, the economy will still grow. That says something:

https://www.businessworld.ie/economy/Irish-economy-would-still-grow-in-2019-in-event-of-no-deal-Brexit-says-Finance-Minister-571399.html


What about social issues, I hear them cry. Cripes, is same-sex marriage and abortion not enough? I doubt that a FF/SF government led by Eamon O'Cuiv would have delivered that.

Housing, I hear you say. House prices rise in a growing economy and supply struggles to keep up with demand from people getting jobs. It seems now that we are getting somewhere.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/house-prices-housing-drop-13323105

I know, it's the Mirror, but what it says is true - house prices in Dublin are falling.

However, as has been said on this thread many times, unless expectations are more realistic - the demand for a three-bedroom house with a garden for a trampoline for a single mother was one example of silly expectations - there will be a housing crisis. As has also been pointed out, the Government has put in place policies from housing regulations, to height regulations, to capital investment but if Dublin City Council can't even put in a proper planning application to An Bord Pleanala, what can the Government do about that level of incompetence in a Council run by FF, SF and looney lefties?

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/revealed-fasttrack-plan-for-thousands-of-new-homes-in-tatters-37362725.html

But despite all the good news and the progress, still some people think it can't get any worse. Unbelievable.

The actual debate that is required is to choose between different policy options going forward. The FG government has done a good job, but has it put enough emphasis on climate change or public transport? Has it put too much money into social welfare? With unemployment so low, surely our social welfare bill should be shrinking dramatically? Should Ireland continue to seek FDI?

These are policy choices that are now available because FG has been so successful in rescuing the economy from the mess that FF created. So yes, things could have been a lot, lot worse under FF or SF, and there is no evidence that anything could be better under them. In fact, given the promises being made, all the evidence suggests that either of those parties would make things a lot, lot worse. As for those who don't have a clue - the Mick Barrys and Mick Wallaces of this world - we should all emigrate if they get near power.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I'll not lower myself to show you the same disrespect.
It's a calm and measured critique of the quality we have in regard to a fellow posters comments.
You don't think FF and Indies could bring down the government if they wanted? Or do you think everything is swell and the Indies/FF have no such power?
Which part do you not understand well enough to comment on?



That's the anecdote alright. I suppose they could create a super duper record breaking in child homeliness.



I wonder which SF LA's are responsible for this?

It's always a good idea to critique the what ifs of a different government when faced with the indefensible actions of the current. Well it's a nice distraction anyway.

Once again, there are comprehensive posts put up, with factual links and information, setting out the government's record and someone comes along and says, ah they wasted £15.8m over there.

Let us be clear, the country is enjoying record-breaking employment, record-breaking economic growth, household debt is in decline and property prices are stabilising. Very few in 2011 on here predicted that. We were told that generations would never work, that emigration would touch the heights of the middle of the last two centuries and that we would default by the end of the week (some posters regularly predicted that every week).

The worries we have now need to be remembered in that context. In fact, the biggest concerns are how we build for the future. The Government has made a good start in that - Project 2040 is a good plan - but more is required. Do FG have all the answers? No, but their record is good, far better than the main opposition party FF. The loony left - SF, PBP and the rest of the rabble - don't have a clue and are only interested in crying, whinging, moaning and protesting. Rent-a-cause springs to mind.

There will be many who think we are fine as we are - they will vote FG, possibly as much as 35-40% of them in the next election. There will be those, like me, who think the general approach is fine, but that tweaks are needed, and will vote for rational parties - Greens, SDs, Labour - whichever are proposing the right tweaks, and then probably continue preferences to FG. Then there will be those who are permanently disgruntled, weighed down by family tradition or simply unable to remember how bad things were, and they will vote for PBP, SF and FF.

blanch152 in response to your post, I dont doubt the economy is growing and that unemployment is down, even with their dubious way of measuring unemployment. But here is a FACT! many people standards of living is going down, despite this "boom" that we keep hearing about. If last year is anything to go by, a worker on E30,000 will get back roughly E6 a month from a usc cut. Meanwhile "renters in the capital are paying E128 a month more on average than last year" If you get a few percent pay hike, that scum take half it over 34,500 odd. The rising tide lifts all boats claim, is laughable! Id say that if you were renting or looking to buy during the recession and working, your living standard then was probably higher or significantly higher than now...

https://www.herald.ie/news/renters-in-the-capital-are-paying-128-more-a-month-than-last-year-37359049.html

Idbatterim wrote: »

blanch152 in response to your post, I dont doubt the economy is growing and that unemployment is down, even with their dubious way of measuring unemployment. But here is a FACT! many people standards of living is going down, despite this "boom" that we keep hearing about. If last year is anything to go by, a worker on E30,000 will get back roughly E6 a month from a usc cut. Meanwhile "renters in the capital are paying E128 a month more on average than last year" If you get a few percent pay hike, that scum take half it over 34,500 odd. The rising tide lifts all boats claim, is laughable! Id say that if you were renting or looking to buy during the recession and working, your living standard then was probably higher or significantly higher than now...

https://www.herald.ie/news/renters-in-the-capital-are-paying-128-more-a-month-than-last-year-37359049.html

Think about what you are saying. You have said that there are some in the recession who were doing well even though the majority weren't. Now, there are some who aren't doing well, but the majority are.

There are always those who are doing better than others, unless you live in a socialist utopia where everyone is doing crap except the socialist overlords.

Even your example of a worker on €30,000, something like 80% of employers are giving a pay increase this year, so the worker on €30,000 last year is now on €33,000 or €35,000, so he is doing better because of the economy.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If the economy isn't having the anecdotal knock on effect of the trickle down myth, who cares if it's going well? It means more security to carry out flawed policies, so, so what? As I've said before if we have a growing healthy economy and a housing crisis, there's a disconnect. We know government policy is making matters worse.
Forgive me, I must be ranting again. Funny how cold reality comes across as ranting to those not willing to acknowledge we are in crisis.
The economy and the tax payers quality of life are not separate. One doing badly such as with the housing crisis isn't countered or made better by citing how well the economy is doing. When Noonan's Cerberus and friends prosper, so does the economy. Hardly a reason for celebration if the tax payer is left wallowing.

As soon as I got as far as the word "anecdotal", I knew that this would be a post empty of facts.

Later on your state "We know government policy is making matters worse". That isn't presented as an opinion i.e. "I believe government policy is making matters worse". It is presented as a fact. Worse, it is presented as a fact without having any evidence to back it up such as "This independent report demonstrated that government policy is making matters worse and here is the link".

You then go on to self-parody "Forgive me, I must be ranting again". Well, to be honest, and this is my opinion, if you are presenting opinion as fact, with no supporting independent verification, and you do so repeatedly, people are free to draw their own conclusions and have a view on the merits of your opinions.

Finally as for quality of life, we are 26th in the world (see link to back up my opinion)

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp

That isn't bad for a small cold little island on the edge of a continent, with all the disadvantages of an island. Interestingly, if you rank us by how cheap it is to buy, we are 15th cheapest place to buy a house relative to income.


https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp