Stallions

kiers47 · 05-09-2018 09:11PM

Inion An Ri wrote: »

Cherry Hinton has an American Pharoah filly foal.

Fair enough. Then it's just the racing post being well the racing post. :pac:

Fanny Wank · 08-09-2018 08:06PM

Sorry for what may be a thick question but.....

When a mare is sold in foal who pays the covering fee? The new owners or the old?

Francie Barrett · 09-09-2018 12:19AM

Fanny **** wrote: »

Sorry for what may be a thick question but.....

When a mare is sold in foal who pays the covering fee? The new owners or the old?

If a mare is in foal, then no covering fee is due to the new owner.

paddyisreal · 17-09-2018 12:03PM

some weekend for darley sires. teofilio having 2 group3 winners, dubawi having two group 1 and 4 group 2's and a listed winner, fast company with a listed winner , dawn approach with a group 2 .

Mgoraf · 23-09-2018 01:26PM

BUSIEST NEW SIRES IN BRITAIN AND IRELAND IN 2018

Caravaggio
Sire Scat Daddy
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 217
Black-type winners covered 34

Churchill
Sire Galileo
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 211
Black-type winners covered 42

Profitable
Sire Invincible Spirit
Stud Kildangan, Ire
Mares covered 185
Black-type winners covered 16

Highland Reel
Sire Galileo
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 184
Black-type winners covered 23

Cotai Glory
Sire Exceed And Excel
Stud Tally-Ho, Ire
Mares covered 180
Black-type winners covered 3

Jack Hobbs
Sire Halling
Stud Overbury, GB
Mares covered 168
Black-type winners covered 19

Aclaim
Sire Acclamation
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 160
Black-type winners covered 9

Ribchester
Sire Iffraaj
Stud Kildangan, Ire
Mares covered 154
Black-type winners covered 17

El Kabeir
Sire Scat Daddy
Stud Yeomanstown, Ire
Mares covered 146
Black-type winners covered 7

Galileo Gold
Sire Paco Boy
Stud Tally-Ho, Ire
Mares covered 140
Black-type winners covered 8

Ardad
Sire Kodiac
Stud Overbury, GB
Mares covered 132
Black-type winners covered 5

Ulysses
Sire Galileo
Stud Cheveley Park, GB
Mares covered 115
Black-type winners covered 25

Postponed
Sire Dubawi
Stud Dalham Hall, GB
Mares covered 112
Black-type winners covered 21

Time Test
Sire Dubawi
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 111
Black-type winners covered 10

Decorated Knight
Sire Galileo
Stud Irish National, Ire
Mares covered 66
Black-type winners covered 5

National Defense
Sire Invincible Spirit
Stud Irish National, Ire
Mares covered 64
Black-type winners covered 11

Dartmouth
Sire Dubawi
Stud Shade Oak, GB
Mares covered 61
Black-type winners covered 1

Pillar Coral
Sire Zamindar
Stud Annshoon, Ire
Mares covered 61
Black-type winners covered -

My Dream Boat
Sire Lord Shanakill
Stud Bridge House, Ire
Mares covered 60
Black-type winners covered 2

Divine Prophet
Sire Choisir
Stud Tara, Ire
Mares covered 59
Black-type winners covered 2

Peace Envoy
Sire Power
Stud Worsall Grange, GB
Mares covered 59
Black-type winners covered 4

Spill The Beans
Sire Snitzel
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 33
Black-type winners covered 1

Barney Roy
Sire Excelebration
Stud Dalham Hall, GB
Mares covered 31
Black-type winners covered 1

Mahsoob
Sire Dansili
Stud Hedgeholme, GB
Mares covered 22
Black-type winners covered 1

Forever Now
Sire Galileo
Stud Norton Grove, GB
Mares covered 21
Black-type winners covered 1

Karpino
Sire Cape Cross
Stud Glenview, Ire
Mares covered 8
Black-type winners covered -

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/coolmore-pair-caravaggio-and-churchill-the-busiest-new-boys-of-2018/346791

Fanny Wank · 23-09-2018 08:47PM

Coolmore America has announced 2019 fees already. Early for this is it?

https://twitter.com/coolmoreamerica/status/1043948965165768705?s=19

elderberry · 26-09-2018 12:22PM

Mgoraf wrote: »

BUSIEST NEW SIRES IN BRITAIN AND IRELAND IN 2018

Barney Roy
Sire Excelebration
Stud Dalham Hall, GB
Mares covered 31
Black-type winners covered 1

Not much love for Barney, surely France or SA beckons.

Also interesting to see the difference in # of mares sent to Ulysses & Decorated Knight. Both by Galileo from top-class dam lines, similar racing profile but £30k Ulysses covered 115 mares to €15k Decorated Knight's 66. Shows how a stud can really get behind their stallion if they have a significant broodmare band.

Mgoraf · 26-09-2018 12:26PM

He has fertility issues. Were rumours he could be coming back into training

elderberry · 26-09-2018 01:16PM

Mgoraf wrote: »

He has fertility issues. Were rumours he could be coming back into training

ah ok, I missed that, his numbers make a bit more sense now. Are they going to persevere with him at stud next season?

antietam · 28-09-2018 01:01AM

Mgoraf wrote: »

BUSIEST NEW SIRES IN BRITAIN AND IRELAND IN 2018

Caravaggio
Sire Scat Daddy
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 217
Black-type winners covered 34

Churchill
Sire Galileo
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 211
Black-type winners covered 42

Profitable
Sire Invincible Spirit
Stud Kildangan, Ire
Mares covered 185
Black-type winners covered 16

Highland Reel
Sire Galileo
Stud Coolmore, Ire
Mares covered 184
Black-type winners covered 23

Cotai Glory
Sire Exceed And Excel
Stud Tally-Ho, Ire
Mares covered 180
Black-type winners covered 3

Jack Hobbs
Sire Halling
Stud Overbury, GB
Mares covered 168
Black-type winners covered 19

Aclaim
Sire Acclamation
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 160
Black-type winners covered 9

Ribchester
Sire Iffraaj
Stud Kildangan, Ire
Mares covered 154
Black-type winners covered 17

El Kabeir
Sire Scat Daddy
Stud Yeomanstown, Ire
Mares covered 146
Black-type winners covered 7

Galileo Gold
Sire Paco Boy
Stud Tally-Ho, Ire
Mares covered 140
Black-type winners covered 8

Ardad
Sire Kodiac
Stud Overbury, GB
Mares covered 132
Black-type winners covered 5

Ulysses
Sire Galileo
Stud Cheveley Park, GB
Mares covered 115
Black-type winners covered 25

Postponed
Sire Dubawi
Stud Dalham Hall, GB
Mares covered 112
Black-type winners covered 21

Time Test
Sire Dubawi
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 111
Black-type winners covered 10

Decorated Knight
Sire Galileo
Stud Irish National, Ire
Mares covered 66
Black-type winners covered 5

National Defense
Sire Invincible Spirit
Stud Irish National, Ire
Mares covered 64
Black-type winners covered 11

Dartmouth
Sire Dubawi
Stud Shade Oak, GB
Mares covered 61
Black-type winners covered 1

Pillar Coral
Sire Zamindar
Stud Annshoon, Ire
Mares covered 61
Black-type winners covered -

My Dream Boat
Sire Lord Shanakill
Stud Bridge House, Ire
Mares covered 60
Black-type winners covered 2

Divine Prophet
Sire Choisir
Stud Tara, Ire
Mares covered 59
Black-type winners covered 2

Peace Envoy
Sire Power
Stud Worsall Grange, GB
Mares covered 59
Black-type winners covered 4

Spill The Beans
Sire Snitzel
Stud National, GB
Mares covered 33
Black-type winners covered 1

Barney Roy
Sire Excelebration
Stud Dalham Hall, GB
Mares covered 31
Black-type winners covered 1

Mahsoob
Sire Dansili
Stud Hedgeholme, GB
Mares covered 22
Black-type winners covered 1

Forever Now
Sire Galileo
Stud Norton Grove, GB
Mares covered 21
Black-type winners covered 1

Karpino
Sire Cape Cross
Stud Glenview, Ire
Mares covered 8
Black-type winners covered -

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/coolmore-pair-caravaggio-and-churchill-the-busiest-new-boys-of-2018/346791[/QUOIve been at plenty of sales my very educated question is how many Coolmore progeny are bought by Coolmore affiliates to increase stallion value[doing it for decades].

tryfix · 28-09-2018 02:57AM

Born To Sea is being given a change of scenery in his stallion career, with a move from Ireland to Haras des Faunes in France lined up for next year.

The nine-year-old son of Invincible Spirit – notably a half-brother to the exceptional racehorses and sires Galileo and Sea The Stars – spent the first two years of his stallion career at Rathasker Stud and moved to stand alongside Sea The Stars at Gilltown Stud in 2015.

It's a funny old world when you've got a Group winning and Gr1 placed Invincible Spirit half brother to Sea The Stars and Galileo and you can only fill his book with......

Weatherbys reports that, having covered 102 mares in 2016, he received 26 in 2017 @€;10, 000 and only ten this year @€;5, 000.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/born-to-sea-transferred-to-stand-in-france-from-next-year/347308

tryfix · 29-09-2018 08:18PM

Well No Nay Never gets his maiden Gp1 winner with Ten Sovereigns and that success will surely breed more success as the quality of the book of mares he will cover is likely to improve.

The one caveat about this win is that Ten Sovereigns is a much bulkier Scat Daddy type than the leaner types like Land Force and The Irish Rover that seem to be the typical No Nay Never stock that we see running.

Ten Sovereigns himself should make a cracking sire if he can impart his impressive physique to his stock.

tryfix · 30-09-2018 09:26PM

Homesman a former O'Brien Gallinule Stakes winner and rare middle-distance performer for his speed sire War Front took a GP1 in Australia this morning. It's a pity they gelded him after he left Ireland. Both he and Declaration Of War were well able for 10f+ races. Declaration Of War is a bit of a stamina influence in my book which probably wasn't what Coolmore wanted out of him.

Also The Taj Mahal ( formerly just Taj Mahal a full sibling to classic winners Marvelous, Gleneagles and GP 1 winner Happily + GP1 placed Coolmore ) took his second Gp win since moving to Australia with a narrow Gp3 win over a mile yesterday, his previous win down under being a Gp2 over 1m 4f. All of which adds to the debate about whether Happily should be stepping up to 12f by now.

kiers47 · 02-10-2018 12:15PM

Some nice types under the hammer on day 1 of the Orby sale.
Also a live stream in there for anyone interested.

https://www.goffs.com/sales-results/sales/orby-sale-2018

The Tetrarch · 02-10-2018 01:02PM

kiers47 wrote: »

Some nice types under the hammer on day 1 of the Orby sale.
Also a live stream in there for anyone interested.

I've analysed all the lots, and the possible matings of the fillies on sale with about 700 stallions.
A while back I analysed a yearling sale catalogue four years after the sale.
About 4 from 450+ earned enough to pay for their auction price and training fees.

tryfix · 02-10-2018 02:46PM

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I've analysed all the lots, and the possible matings of the fillies on sale with about 700 stallions.
A while back I analysed a yearling sale catalogue four years after the sale.
About 4 from 450+ earned enough to pay for their auction price and training fees.

It's not so bad for the fillies, if the Frankel filly that sold for £500,000 is a dud she can still make it as a broodmare. If you buy a dud colt then you're fairly screwed. Not that the likes of Sheikh Mohammed will be worrying too much about gelding a few hundred thousand worth of a horse.

tryfix · 02-10-2018 09:32PM

€2 million for a full sister to Alice Springs...

Much had been made of Sheikh Mohammed’s return to the Orby Sale, but while the ruler of Dubai made his presence felt on more than one occasion, the biggest impact of all came from Goffs newcomers Phoenix Thoroughbreds, as the rising force stunned the onlooking crowd when outgunning Coolmore’s MV Magnier at €2 million for the sister to Alice Springs on Tuesday.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/goffs/bold-phoenix-stun-big-guns-by-landing-2m-sister-to-alice-springs/347950

Some people have more money than sense. If this €2 million purchase is as good as Alice Springs' other full sister Hence ( a listed class filly ) then they'll be lucky, but she'd still be a bit of an underachiever off that price. A foundation mare in waiting?

kiers47 · 03-10-2018 02:30PM

Phoenix also after chucking up 3.2 million for Forever Together's and Together Forever's full sister. Madness stuff.

https://twitter.com/theTDN/status/1047478282738978817

tryfix · 03-10-2018 04:27PM

kiers47 wrote: »

Phoenix also after chucking up 3.2 million for Forever Together's and Together Forever's full sister. Madness stuff.

https://twitter.com/theTDN/status/1047478282738978817

Nearly always there's method to the madness.

"The mare has done it; her first foal was Lord Shanakill, she's had the two Galileo's [Together Forever and Forever Together] too, for the mare to be producing three horses of that calibre she must be very special," said agent Dermot Farrington.

"I'd have loved to get her a bit cheaper but it just doesn't happen.

"Phoenix are bedding in families for the future. This filly comes from a Juddmonte family and normally you can't get hold of those families. Many years ago Green Room was sold at Tattersalls and now she's produced three Group 1 winners. Phoenix are very keen to bed in those big families with these two fillies - those families will be around for along time.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/goffs/nancy-sexton-brings-you-all-the-action-live-from-day-two-of-the-orby-sale/347954

It all seems to be a bit of a vanity project designed to appeal to shareholders who are happy to blow loads of someone's money .

tryfix · 08-10-2018 06:08PM

Is Australia the sire going to be a new Montjeu rather than being a new Galileo? I see him slotting in somewhere between both great sires in that I think he'll be producing 10f+ types like Montjeu did but that they'll be much sounder in the head than the Montjeus were.

He's had a few early speedyish types such as the dual Group winner Beyond Reason, but after I saw Broome running earlier in the year in England where he looked to be more of a future Cup horse than anything else I started to ponder what exactly owners are going to get out of their Australias.

Broome surprisingly to me showed that he wasn't just a slow boat when he made the running in the Gp1 Jean Luc Lagardere where he stayed on resolutely to be in a tight finish after making all the running. So Broome has made great progress as have Sydney Opera House and others.

Sydney Opera House is a half brother to Epsom Derby second Golden Sword and Melbourne Cup winner Rekindling. A family connection of 12f+ types with Golden Sword by Galileo having a DI of 0.80 and Rekindling by High Chaparral having a DI of 0.80. The effect of having Australia as a sire on this family is to apparently ramp up the stamina to DI 0.69 which is basically a declaration that Sydney Opera House is going to be a Derby-Leger-Cup horse next year with Leger-Cup success more likely than a career in top Gp1 12f races beyond July of his 3yo career.

Galileo tends to get DI 1.00 horses that are reasonably flexible in trip, Montjeu tended to get DI 0.80 types that struggled as 3yos to be top class at less than 10f and beyond.

Of Australias best two year olds so far they all have 12f+ pedigrees.

The 6f group 3 winner Beyond Reason has a stayers DI of 0.76 which might explain why she found it difficult to step up to Gp1 company against the speedier bred types she met in the 7f Gp1 Moyglare.

Sydney Opera House has a Cup horse DI 0.69 which is the reason he stays on so well in group company over 1m at two. Indeed he'd a tasty proposition for the end of season Gp1 grand criterium over 10f.

Despite being out of an Acclamation mare Broome has a DI of 0.67 which is in-line with his earlier season form of only getting going at the end of races.

It's a credit to these apparently stoutly bred horse that they've achieved so much at this stage of their careers. In showing more speed than they are entitled to these horses are following a similar line to their parents. Their Epsom Derby and Epsom Oaks winning parents both were as comfortable in top Gp1 races over 10f as they were over 12f.

tryfix · 12-10-2018 08:36PM

tryfix wrote: »

Ruler Of the World gets off the mark with his 4th runner Iridessa a 20/1 shot who on her debut today ran all over the Chesham Stakes 5th Cardini in the opener at Killarney.

Ruler Of The World is standing at just €8,000, it's a shocking indictment of the obsession with speed and precocity that a Derby winning son of Galileo ( a sire of sires ) who's a half brother to the legendary Duke Of Marmalade ( who is a smashing sire as well ) had his stallion career practically written off before he got a chance with the kind of mares that a well bred Derby winner should be getting. I really hope that Ruler Of The World gets to climb up the fee ladder so that he doesn't end up exported or shuffled off to the NH stallion ranks.

An €8,000 fee for Ruler Of The World a Galileo Epsom Derby winning half brother to the multiple Group 1 winner producing Duke Of Marmalade. Well thankfuly he had produced 2yo Gp1 winner Iridessa in his first crop which will hopefully see his fee and the quality of mare rise so that he won't end up exported or in the NH sphere.

The mighty £175,000 fee Frankel couldn't do what the passed over Ruler did. I'm kind of hopefully that Frankel's brother Noble Mission is going to eventually end up being noted as a being better sire than his brother.

The old man Galileo is in danger of being swamped by the success of his sons who will rob him of a string of new Gp1 winners as they themselves produce bucketfuls of Gp1 winners

18-10-2018 10:34AM

I see Ask has left Coolmore NH stud. Ive heard he was sold to a breeder in Wales. Obviously wasnt doing as well as they had hoped.

Ive a filly foal by Ask so am a bit disappointed by this.

I says · 18-10-2018 11:16AM

TheTorment wrote: »

I see Ask has left Coolmore NH stud. Ive heard he was sold to a breeder in Wales. Obviously wasnt doing as well as they had hoped.

Ive a filly foal by Ask so am a bit disappointed by this.

Order of Saint George to replace him??

18-10-2018 12:40PM

I says wrote: »

Order of Saint George to replace him??

Id be happy to see him there. Ive a mare to cover this Spring so would seriously consider him if he's not silly prices.

tryfix · 24-10-2018 03:03AM

Although Galileo has now reached 6 individual Gp1 winners from the crop who were 3yo this year, all of which were trained by Aidan O'Brien. There's still plenty of reason to be a bit concerned about his future holding onto his number 1 status in the UK and Ireland stallion ranks.

The last time I remember Galileo failing to have a 2yo Gp1 winner was in his first crop. This year while Dubawi was firing in two Gp1 2yo winners of the highest quality Galileo had to make do with Gp1 places for his 2yo's and now that Dubawi has established himself as a source of more precocious talent he's on the verge of making the breakthrough to topple Galileo sooner rather than later as Champion Sire.

On Saturday in the Futurity it's a son of Invincible Spirit out of a Galileo mare that's his number one chance of lifting that race. There are two French Gp1 races for 2yo's this weekend so maybe Galileo can get on the board, if that fails there's always the Breeders Cup Juvenile races to have a crack at.

It's become a trend that Galileo's grandkids are beginning to excel at taking the bite from their granda's mouth.

tryfix · 25-10-2018 12:37PM

TheTorment wrote: »

I see Ask has left Coolmore NH stud. Ive heard he was sold to a breeder in Wales. Obviously wasnt doing as well as they had hoped.

Ive a filly foal by Ask so am a bit disappointed by this.

National Hunt sire Ask will stand at Dunraven Stud in South Wales during the forthcoming breeding season, having been purchased from Coolmore.

The son of Sadler's Wells stood at Beeches Stud in 2018 for a fee of €3,000, his eighth year at stud following a racing career that saw him win seven of 19 career starts, including a pair of Group 1s in the Prix Royal Oak and the Coronation Cup, both in 2009.

David Brace, owner of Dunraven Stud, said: "After the sad passing of Dr Massini last season, I have been actively looking to recruit another leading stallion son of Sadler’s Wells to try and fill his shoes and once I was alerted to the possibility that Ask might be available for purchase, I knew I had to act quickly.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/ask-heads-to-dunraven-stud-in-wales-following-purchase-from-coolmore/350909

In the long term the move should work out well which isn't much use to you. I don't think it'll damage demand for Ask's progeny as a move away from Coolmore for a stallion is becoming a very normal thing as that outfit become not just a stallion farm but a farm for selling stallions. It's unreal the amount of established stallions and stallions to be that Coolmore are selling off in recent times as they make way for the yearly supply of new stallion talent to come through.

Inion An Ri · 25-10-2018 11:22PM

Galileo had no 2yo G1 winners in 2013. However, that crop did go on to have 5 G1 winners, 4 as 3yos and one as a 4yo.

Inion An Ri · 25-10-2018 11:35PM

Norway is the 4/5 favourite for the 10f G1 in France on Saturday, and Cape of Good Hope and Hermosa are likely runners in the G1 on Sunday. I fancy Hermosa for that, she would have won the Fillies Mile only for taking the brunt of the very strong headwind for the entire race while the winner was covered up, even Joseph O'Brien admitted that. Significant that Aidan has left her in against the colts, he pulled off a similar number with Happily on Arc Day last year.
Then, Anthony Van Dyck is the favourite for the BC Juvenile Turf, and believe it or not, Line of Duty is the second favourite for Godolphin, and he's a Galileo colt also! The third favourite is Broome, also for Ballydoyle, but he's unlikely to run, and it's 10/1 the field after that.

The Tetrarch · 26-10-2018 01:03PM

I wish there was a simple list of stallions going to stud in 2019, and stallions leaving stud. My stallion database is not even close to reality.
I see Worthadd left the Irish National Stud to go to Pau, France.

tryfix · 28-10-2018 07:38PM

Inion An Ri wrote: »

Norway is the 4/5 favourite for the 10f G1 in France on Saturday, and Cape of Good Hope and Hermosa are likely runners in the G1 on Sunday. I fancy Hermosa for that, she would have won the Fillies Mile only for taking the brunt of the very strong headwind for the entire race while the winner was covered up, even Joseph O'Brien admitted that. Significant that Aidan has left her in against the colts, he pulled off a similar number with Happily on Arc Day last year.
Then, Anthony Van Dyck is the favourite for the BC Juvenile Turf, and believe it or not, Line of Duty is the second favourite for Godolphin, and he's a Galileo colt also! The third favourite is Broome, also for Ballydoyle, but he's unlikely to run, and it's 10/1 the field after that.

The first part didn't go too well. Don't know why Norway ran so poorly, but Hermosa looks to be a middle-distance Gp1 winner in the making next year. Also if Flag Of Honour hadn't done a really bad Dayjur impression in the stayers Gp1 he would have beaten the winner easily. Hopefully next year O'Brien's legion of 3yo Galileos will step up from their somewhat stunted 2yo campaigns.

Aidan has a very patchy record in France over the last few years so I wouldn't take the weekend's setbacks too seriously.

As for the chasing pack behind Galileo, well Invincible Spirit had a 2yo Gp1 double over 7f and 1mile so maybe he's going to turn into a Danehill like surprise supplier of middle-distance horses after making his name with sprinters. Camelot notched his maiden Gp1 winning 2yo and is becoming a very desirable sire, even when Coolmore lose a big race they often tend to come out as winners as their sires hit the mark for others.

Australia continues to notch up the winners and hit 2 placed horse in the weekend's Group 1 2yo races and it was particularly pleasing that both his placed progeny were bouncing back from poor runs and staying on at the death in their races Everything about the Australias screams middle-distance + 3yos that will be a huge threat in all 12f races for years to come.

The circus carries on to the USA, even if Galileo gets his 2yo Gp1 winner there I always feel that the Breeders Cup Juvenile Turf races are Gp1 in name only, reputation wise they feel like Gp 2 races.

Stallions

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