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Landlord Fined for Refusing HAP

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    #92
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    It depends- I can't see how/why a tenant would agree though (a colleague has a 24k bill in Co. Meath to bring a property built in 2002 up to HAP spec just yesterday). Whats in it for a tenant? If they agree to pay a bill that could run to tens of thousands- how on earth do they get it back- by paying a reduced rent- which in turn affects the value of the property if the owner ever decides to sell?

    If its a small cost (to put ventilation into bedrooms and change a few light sockets- which could cost a couple of grand) I can't see any landlord getting too het up under the collar about it. A complete rewiring and replumbing- are an entirely different kettle of fish........... It really depends on whats on the shopping list (and it can be a long and meandering list).

    I can't see anything to stop a tenant approaching a landlord informally and offering to pay whatever it takes to bring a building up to spec- but I just don't understand why they would do it- as they have no financial interest in the building. If it were on the continent and a 20 year lease- where they would be leaving at the end of the 20 years- and returning the property empty- with a fresh coat of paint- ready for inspection before their deposit were returned- it would be a different story.

    Nothing to stop them doing it- per se- but no reason that they would do it either.........

    What was to be done for 24 k?????


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    #93
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Old diesel wrote: »
    What was to be done for 24 k?????
    • Complete rewiring
    • Replumbing the kitchen appliances
    • Ventilation in all the bedrooms
    • Window in the en-suite bathroom
    • Removal of some plasterboard walls and resizing of rooms- to make the property wheelchair compliant (which is nuts- the prospective tenant is in their prime and 100% definitely not in a wheelchair)
    • A ramp to the door (once again- not sure how/why)
    • Repainting the entire property as the colour scheme is non-compliant (it was magnolia and white- which seems pretty standard to me- I honestly have no idea what the reasoning is with this either........

    All told it came to just over 24k (and thats with the girl calling in some favours from family, friends and colleagues). Some shortcuts were taken (one colleague had a large bore masonry drill (no idea where he got it from- or why- but he did the holes in all the walls- which saved over a grand- and various others probably saved another 5-6k).........

    This was a lovely house- not quite walking into a showhome- but not far off it....... Now- its bland, anonymous- and the rooms are significantly smaller with a lot of space lost in abnormally wide hallways and a landing of bizarre proportions.

    :(:confused:


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    #94
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    • Complete rewiring
    • Replumbing the kitchen appliances
    • Ventilation in all the bedrooms
    • Window in the en-suite bathroom
    • Removal of some plasterboard walls and resizing of rooms- to make the property wheelchair compliant (which is nuts- the prospective tenant is in their prime and 100% definitely not in a wheelchair)
    • A ramp to the door (once again- not sure how/why)
    • Repainting the entire property as the colour scheme is non-compliant (it was magnolia and white- which seems pretty standard to me- I honestly have no idea what the reasoning is with this either........

    All told it came to just over 24k (and thats with the girl calling in some favours from family, friends and colleagues). Some shortcuts were taken (one colleague had a large bore masonry drill (no idea where he got it from- or why- but he did the holes in all the walls- which saved over a grand- and various others probably saved another 5-6k).........

    This was a lovely house- not quite walking into a showhome- but not far off it....... Now- its bland, anonymous- and the rooms are significantly smaller with a lot of space lost in abnormally wide hallways and a landing of bizarre proportions.

    :(:confused:

    Would you mind if I screenshot that post and share it on my twitter.

    Insane stuff


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    #95
    Scienceless
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Scienceless


    Repainting the entire property as colour scheme non compliant......

    Sorry but is this a piss take...?

    Is this what council inspections are actually reporting on??

    I’ll say it again, any wonder small time landlords are exiting the market in big numbers, myself included.

    I’m actually relieved I won’t have to listen to their bs.

    If you’re a small time landlord then get out as soon as you can.


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    #96
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Old diesel wrote: »
    Would you mind if I screenshot that post and share it on my twitter.

    Insane stuff

    It is insane- I have no idea whether all the people who do inspections are as anal (theres no other way of putting it)- or whether some are a lot more laissez faire in attitude. Why should a property have to be wheelchair compliant- if the occupant isn't in a wheelchair? Perhaps there may have been crossed lines somewhere- however, if there was- I'm not aware of what they were.

    As for the paint scheme- looks like she is in good company on this one- I've had a PM from another Meath landlord stating he was also made repaint- and there is a thread in this forum from a landlord letting a property under HAP to Dublin City Council- who was also recently made repaint...........

    And people wonder why HAP is so unpopular?


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    #97
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭The Student


    Scienceless wrote: »
    Repainting the entire property as colour scheme non compliant......

    Sorry but is this a piss take...?

    Is this what council inspections are actually reporting on??

    I’ll say it again, any wonder small time landlords are exiting the market in big numbers, myself included.

    I’m actually relieved I won’t have to listen to their bs.

    If you’re a small time landlord then get out as soon as you can.

    Was requested to repaint as well


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    #98
    Scienceless
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Scienceless


    The Student wrote: »
    Was requested to repaint as well

    Is it really within the remit of council inspections to dictate colour schemes?

    What has that go to do with building standards / regulations??

    Serious question.


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    #99
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭The Student


    Scienceless wrote: »
    Is it really within the remit of council inspections to dictate colour schemes?

    What has that go to do with building standards / regulations??

    Serious question.

    No its not but I really think some of them are on a power trip!


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    #100
    The Student
    Registered Users Posts: 1,249 ✭✭✭The Student


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    In the summary of the landlords argument, he made it clear that he had every intention of discriminating against welfare tenants at the very beginning.

    In response to the Complainant’s complaint, the Respondent stated that there was no mention of HAPS when the lease was originally agreed. The Respondent also stated that he never indicated to the Estate Agent that he would agree to a HAPS payment.

    What would you like the arbitrator to do? Say sure its grand you dicked your tenants around for 7 months cause you "didn't fully understand how HAPS worked". Or that its the WRC's problem that it didn't "suit his circumstances"(ie: no income declared)? Or its fine because HAP would have been a "complication" for him.

    Your calling a couple devious who followed the correct channels, were granted government aid and paid their rent for 7 months while their landlord messed them around.
    Your making up arguments for a landlord who quite frankly should not be in that business and wasn't even capable of making them himself.

    Keep up with the anti landlord stance and see how many landlords leave the market.


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    #101
    Scienceless
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Scienceless


    The Student wrote: »
    No its not but I really think some of them are on a power trip!

    I’d call it an abuse of their positions and they should be made answer for requiring such so called upgrades which have nothing to do with the building standards they are supposedly enforcing (which I’ve no problem with btw).

    inspectors requiring unnecessary work outside of the building regulations has a problem with landlords themselves imo.


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    #102
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Scienceless wrote: »
    I’d call it an abuse of their positions and they should be made answer for requiring such so called upgrades which have nothing to do with the building standards they are supposedly enforcing (which I’ve no problem with btw).

    inspectors requiring unnecessary work outside of the building regulations has a problem with landlords themselves imo.

    Probably- but given how opaque it is even trying to contact them- most landlords aren't in a position to dispute these things......... When you add a few WRC case findings into the mix- many landlords probably feel they have no option but to comply. So- while the inspector may be on a power trip- and have a personal hatred of landlords (along with half of the rest of the country)- the landlord is in a rather putrid damned no matter what they do or don't do situation.


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    #103
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,980 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    GGTrek wrote: »
    However, the Complaint stated that the Respondent again refused to engage unless there was a financial gain for him [probably a rent increase to market rate to cover the upgrade costs].

    I'm not going around in circles here, the tenants were eligible for government assistance and the landlord whiffed hard. If you don't like it, get your ass out there and convince people to vote against the politicians who brought in this stupidity(and yes I am against the HAP and RPZ legislation). If you want to champion for in-just laws maybe pick a better case then that one. But your going to find that hard because the smart landlords have straight up bypassed these issues and don't deal with any of this.

    But I am curious, why do you see nothing wrong with the landlord trying to game the system(increase rent because of HAP) but you are outraged by the devious schemer tenants requesting government aid?


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    #104
    KneonK
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭KneonK


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    • Complete rewiring
    • Replumbing the kitchen appliances
    • Ventilation in all the bedrooms
    • Window in the en-suite bathroom
    • Removal of some plasterboard walls and resizing of rooms- to make the property wheelchair compliant (which is nuts- the prospective tenant is in their prime and 100% definitely not in a wheelchair)
    • A ramp to the door (once again- not sure how/why)
    • Repainting the entire property as the colour scheme is non-compliant (it was magnolia and white- which seems pretty standard to me- I honestly have no idea what the reasoning is with this either........

    All told it came to just over 24k (and thats with the girl calling in some favours from family, friends and colleagues). Some shortcuts were taken (one colleague had a large bore masonry drill (no idea where he got it from- or why- but he did the holes in all the walls- which saved over a grand- and various others probably saved another 5-6k).........

    This was a lovely house- not quite walking into a showhome- but not far off it....... Now- its bland, anonymous- and the rooms are significantly smaller with a lot of space lost in abnormally wide hallways and a landing of bizarre proportions.

    :(:confused:

    That's some serious works. :/ I'm fairly certain that internal en suites don't require a window, just mechanical extraction (and a heater and an ip rated light).
    I can see nowhere that they can ask for a ramp so challenge that right off the bat. In fact under the private rented regulations there is genuinely nothing to do with access so the movement of walls is insane.
    Never heard of a non compliant colour scheme either. If the painting is in total reg order a top up can be requested but not on colour scheme.
    Even the wiring is a serious stretch of regulation 12. A periodic inspection report can be requested but if upgrading the wiring isn't the reccomendations then they can not say off the bat that that is needed.
    Only relevant thing I can see here is the vents and maybe the plumbing IF there was obvious problems with it.


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