The Frederick St protest and reaction

hatrickpatrick · 22-09-2018 5:47pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What kind of genuine action?
Landlords are leaving the rental business in favour of AirBnB because of the hassle from a cohort of tenants who are protected by poor legislation.
There are homes available around the country but many if the housing list don't like the idea that they would have to move out out their preferred locality (something most home buyers have to do). The appeal by Kiltyclogher proved successful for those that moved. Maybe more like a certain Ms Cash could move somewhere like that rather than take up a prime city centre appartment/house.
There's too much pandering to wasters who won't try and improve their lot. This then has an upstream effect on availability.
So what do you suggest the government should do to change the problem within the next year?

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/remembering-herbert-simms-the-man-who-rebuilt-dublin-1.3447370

Simms sized upon the political good will and became the driving force behind a large-scale programme of housing construction, which dramatically expanded, and in some cases led, to the creation of new suburbs for Dublin.
“He was a quiet unassuming man who was able to achieve big things and drive forward a really ambitious housing programme in the 1930s which involved large scale housing schemes in the suburbs. Places like Crumlin most of Cabra built under his watch,” McManus says.

The development of the Garden suburb, taken from the Garden City model which emerged in Britain towards the end of the previous century, was an easy sell in the Irish context and the new “corpo house” was popular, but Simms had more ambitious, and more controversial projects in mind to solve the city’s housing crises with the construction of flats.

“Flats were a new solution very much inspired by what going on other parts of Europe. Simms realised not everybody would be able to afford to more to a suburban location and a lot of people needed to live in the city centre close to their place of work.”

Many of the schemes Simms got to work on, Pearse House on Townsend Street, Chancery Place near the four courts and Marrowbone Lane, off Cork Street, remain occupied today. Part of the reason theses flats still stand while later schemes of the 1950s to the 1970s have already been demolished, is the quality of their construction and the thought put into their architecture and their setting, architectural historian Dr Ellen Rowley says.

I simply do not accept, and neither do many prominent commentators today, that something we achieved easily in the early 20th century with all of the problems that we and the rest of Europe had at that time, is impossible to achieve today. All it requires is for the firewall of neoliberalism to crack.

pjohnson · 22-09-2018 5:47pm

Chewbacca wrote: »

Why should people be subjected to another tax?

A person who owns a house should be able to do what they want with it. If they want to leave it empty, so what.

Not everybody wants to be a landlord, they have no obligation to rent or sell it.

These protestors that are breaking into someones property should be arrested like anyone else that breaks into someones property.

The protestors who are blocking O'Connell Bridge should be dispersed by whatever degree of force is warranted and some arrested for any offence which is applicable.

Its not illegal to hace an empty house, it is illegal to break into one.

Jaysus, one must be awful thick to buy a house they dont want to live in NOR make money on :pac:

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 5:48pm

blackwhite wrote:

Blantant lying to claim I posted something very different tells us exactly what sort you are though. Keep it classy

You've referred to people which included children ,that took part in a protest as scum. It's not me tbh that needs to be classy.

hatrickpatrick · 22-09-2018 5:49pm

Chewbacca wrote: »

A person who owns a house should be able to do what they want with it. If they want to leave it empty, so what.

Let's imagine we had actually introduced water charges. Would you have been making this argument during the drought earlier this summer - "we're paying directly for how much water we use, so people should be able do what they want with it" - and therefore opposed a measure such as the hosepipe ban, designed to conserve it in a time of crisis?

Captain Obvious · 22-09-2018 5:50pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus, one must be awful thick to buy a house they dont want to live in NOR make money on :pac:

What if they are just trying to get money together to do it up but have fallen on tight times?

hatrickpatrick · 22-09-2018 5:51pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You've referred to people which included children ,that took part in a protest as scum. It's not me tbh that needs to be classy.

Blocking traffic and thereby hurting innocent civilians is a scummy thing to do. They should have stuck with a peaceful rally designed to draw attention and not generate headlines by f*cking up random peoples' day.

Wheeliebin30 · 22-09-2018 5:51pm

Have we achieved free houses for everyone yet?

blackwhite · 22-09-2018 5:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've voted for every party in this state (bar Renua & the PDs) in elections down the years. Sad you would attempt to portray what was a cordial exchange of opinions via PMs as something else entirely and to do it in a public forum too.

At the time I’d have thought that was what it was as well, even if I thought it very odd to receive a message about another poster.

From what I’ve seen since it’s made me wonder about the motivation tbh

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 5:52pm

Seth Brundle wrote:

What percentage of prime vacant sites will be developed within 18 months of the introduction of this tax?

Eventhough the reply was not directed at you , how ridiculous is it to answer a question with a question?

Signore Fancy Pants · 22-09-2018 5:52pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Jaysus, one must be awful thick to buy a house they dont want to live in NOR make money on :pac:

Nothing about being "thick".

I know a couple who own a house here and in another country, they spend a few months here and a few months there.

I know a guy who emigrated and owns a house here, it is being cared for by relatives until he returns.

Im sure there are also more reasons houses are legitimately empty and it really doesnt matter why either.

pjohnson · 22-09-2018 5:52pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What if they are just trying to get money together to do it up but have fallen on tight times?

Eh would they not be smart enough to ensure they had enough money to do it up? Or buy a house that doesnt need such expensive doing up?

blanch152 · 22-09-2018 5:54pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/remembering-herbert-simms-the-man-who-rebuilt-dublin-1.3447370

Simms sized upon the political good will and became the driving force behind a large-scale programme of housing construction, which dramatically expanded, and in some cases led, to the creation of new suburbs for Dublin.
“He was a quiet unassuming man who was able to achieve big things and drive forward a really ambitious housing programme in the 1930s which involved large scale housing schemes in the suburbs. Places like Crumlin most of Cabra built under his watch,” McManus says.

The development of the Garden suburb, taken from the Garden City model which emerged in Britain towards the end of the previous century, was an easy sell in the Irish context and the new “corpo house” was popular, but Simms had more ambitious, and more controversial projects in mind to solve the city’s housing crises with the construction of flats.

“Flats were a new solution very much inspired by what going on other parts of Europe. Simms realised not everybody would be able to afford to more to a suburban location and a lot of people needed to live in the city centre close to their place of work.”

Many of the schemes Simms got to work on, Pearse House on Townsend Street, Chancery Place near the four courts and Marrowbone Lane, off Cork Street, remain occupied today. Part of the reason theses flats still stand while later schemes of the 1950s to the 1970s have already been demolished, is the quality of their construction and the thought put into their architecture and their setting, architectural historian Dr Ellen Rowley says.

I simply do not accept, and neither do many prominent commentators today, that something we achieved easily in the early 20th century with all of the problems that we and the rest of Europe had at that time, is impossible to achieve today. All it requires is for the firewall of neoliberalism to crack.

There is no similar land available close to the city centre.

We have a number of problems, those on the housing list want to live near the city centre but they don't want to live in high-rise apartments, and anyway the stupid DCC won't give permission for high-rise. There is no solution unless unrealistic expectations are changed.

20Cent · 22-09-2018 5:55pm

2018 you'd think building some affordable houses where there is great demand wouldn't be beyond the abilities of our politicians.

Yer Da sells Avon · 22-09-2018 5:55pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

What if they are just trying to get money together to do it up but have fallen on tight times?

They should have to apply for planning permission to leave it vacant, providing some kind of timescale as to when they might be able to do something with it.

Signore Fancy Pants · 22-09-2018 5:58pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Let's imagine we had actually introduced water charges. Would you have been making this argument during the drought earlier this summer - "we're paying directly for how much water we use, so people should be able do what they want with it" - and therefore opposed a measure such as the hosepipe ban, designed to conserve it in a time of crisis?

Rubbish.

My reasoning does not need to be twisted or applied to another scenario and merely doing so undermines your argument and it's not actually an apt scenario.

Explain to me why there is a housing crisis and how a 'vacant property tax' will fix it.

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 5:58pm

Chewbacca wrote:

A person who owns a house should be able to do what they want with it. If they want to leave it empty, so what.

I would tend to agree with you if we were not in the middle of a housing crisis. Use it or pay for the privilege of it sitting idle.

22-09-2018 5:59pm

blackwhite wrote: »

At the time I’d have thought that was what it was as well, even if I thought it very odd to receive a message about another poster.

From what I’ve seen since it’s made me wonder about the motivation tbh

Eh? I haven't been in this thread for a few days. Today you referred to these protesters on O'Connell St bridge as 'scumbags'. I thought your opinion re this (as did others) as objectionable and responded as I did. Its you who attempted to make it personal with all the stuff about PMs, cults etc.

blackwhite · 22-09-2018 6:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Eh? I haven't been in this thread for a few days. Today you referred to these protesters on O'Connell St bridge as 'scumbags'. I thought your opinion re this (as did others) as objectionable and responded as I did. Its you who attempted to make it personal with all the stuff about PMs, cults etc.

You (and a few others) have decided to single one person out and ignore anyone else who’s made the same or similar comments.
Seems very like picking targets tbh

Guy:Incognito · 22-09-2018 6:08pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The law? which section of the law allows the guards baton charge and teargas protestors?

How many constitutes a protest rather than some **** wit just sitting in the street on their own blocking traffic who would be removed fairly shapish?

All Seeing Eye · 22-09-2018 6:09pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The law? which section of the law allows the guards baton charge and teargas protestors?

Hold on until I get my law books out. They’ve used force plenty of times before to remove unauthorised sit down protests from the streets especially in Dublin.

Waits to be called right winger/nazi etc.............

Signore Fancy Pants · 22-09-2018 6:09pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I would tend to agree with you if we were not in the middle of a housing crisis. Use it or pay for the privilege of it sitting idle.

Why should a private citizen with an empty property be subjected to another bollox tax just because the Government failed?

This has been a Government failure and now pressure is being put on the people to fix it.

Now all of a sudden, the housing crisis is Joe Bloggs fault for having a vacant property.

1. What about building on vacant State land?
2. What about abusive tenants that have forced landlords to quit renting?
3. What about more legal protection for landlords to tempt or keep them in the market?
4. What about building upwards to 30 stories?
5. What about county councils unboarding houses for rent.

This is a Government problem, not a private citizens.

Guy:Incognito · 22-09-2018 6:10pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Genuine action from the government instead of just lip service about the homeless/housing issue.

And if the there's a general election in a few months and a change of government but with the same layer of civil servants below them?

Was there not a housing authority set up last week with the aim of building **** load of houses? I suppose none were built this week so that can be written off as a failure?

Again, why not ask for immediate finishing if a few ghost estates down the country that the people could move in to straight away. Surely anyone genuinely homeless would jump at the chance of a house?

Captain Obvious · 22-09-2018 6:13pm

pjohnson wrote: »

Eh would they not be smart enough to ensure they had enough money to do it up? Or buy a house that doesnt need such expensive doing up?

Maybe they miscalculated. Maybe they had a family tragedy. Maybe their business went under or they lost their job. Maybe they simply are waiting until they don't lose money on it.

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They should have to apply for planning permission to leave it vacant, providing some kind of timescale as to when they might be able to do something with it.

And if they don't know when that might be?

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 6:14pm

All Seeing Eye wrote:

Hold on until I get my law books out. Theyâ€™ve used force plenty of times before to remove unauthorised sit down protests from the streets especially in Dublin.

They have used batons on students who occupied an office and caught serious flak for it. You can call for baton charges and teargas all you want but the force has to be proportionate to the actions of the protest.

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 6:15pm

Chewbacca wrote:

Why should a private citizen with an empty property be subjected to another bollox tax just because the Government failed?

Same as why should a property owner be subject to a CPO?

McMurphy · 22-09-2018 6:15pm

Chewbacca wrote: »

Nothing about being "thick".

I know a couple who own a house here and in another country, they spend a few months here and a few months there.

I know a guy who emigrated and owns a house here, it is being cared for by relatives until he returns.

Im sure there are also more reasons houses are legitimately empty and it really doesnt matter why either.

None of those scenarios sound like they're describing a vacant unused property.

Brendan Bendar · 22-09-2018 6:15pm

Zzzzzzzzz. …………………same old same old

We want everything but we don’t want to pay for it.

Water charges mark 2.

Guy:Incognito · 22-09-2018 6:15pm

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Landlords are leaving the rental business in favour of AirBnB because of the hassle from a cohort of tenants who are protected by poor legislation.

Impossible. Sure aren't all landlords politicians. Surely all the laws are 100% in favour of landlords or that might look like utter bull****.

Hitman3000 · 22-09-2018 6:16pm

Guy:Incognito wrote:

Was there not a housing authority set up last week with the aim of building **** load of houses? I suppose none were built this week so that can be written off as a failure?

Housing authority, I thought it was a land agency to use public lands to build houses. The suggestion being where 60 per cent of the land is given to private builders.

pjohnson · 22-09-2018 6:17pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Zzzzzzzzz. …………………same old same old

We want everything but we don’t want to pay for it.

Water charges mark 2.

Are you not the lad who falls over yourself championing Trade Unions when the bus drivers get the annual strike?

The Frederick St protest and reaction

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