Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

GerardKeating · 17-09-2018 9:10pm

eastwest wrote: »

There's plenty of room on most of the athlone mullingar alignment to build a railway line and a new greenway, should that be necessary.
Where additional slivers of land might need to be acquired, landowners won't have much difficulty since these are along the edge of holdings and not cutting farms or fields in two.

While the alligement was origionally double track, not sure if H&S would allow the greenway so close to a working railway.

eastwest · 17-09-2018 9:25pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

While the alligement was origionally double track, not sure if H&S would allow the greenway so close to a working railway.

Obviously not as close as the current greenway is to the residual old track that wasn't lifted during the construction of the trail, but they'd have no issue with accommodating both within the alignment; there's plenty of room. There are existing parallel setups in Ireland that operate with no problems.

end of the road · 17-09-2018 10:03pm

eastwest wrote: »

In the case of the western rail trail/corridor, the people just aren't there.
If they were, the rail lines would never have closed in the first place.

of course they would. the government weren't going to continue to subsidize the large network we had, they actually didn't want to have to subsidize it at all, and CIE didn't want parts of the network for their own reasons not to do with profit and loss or passenger numbers or population.
so whether there were people or not parts of it would have closed. in some ways we got off lightly, compared to northern ireland and the north west.

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to see rail user numbers increased, double track all the routes in and out of Dublin, Galway to Dublin being a prime example

Would avoid the farcical situation of stopping in the middle of nowhere to allow other trains to pass and would allow for an expanded timetable

agreed but enough people are going to have to push for it to happen.

Isambard · 18-09-2018 9:17am

GerardKeating wrote: »

While the alligement was origionally double track, not sure if H&S would allow the greenway so close to a working railway.

and yet they allow footpaths (and cycle lanes) inches from road traffic. False argument.

bk · 18-09-2018 9:56am

Isambard wrote: »

and yet they allow footpaths (and cycle lanes) inches from road traffic. False argument.

I was thinking the same and Luas is a train too and runs on our streets inches from thousands of people every day.

I was in Italy a few weeks ago and it was pretty shocking standing on a jam packed platform full of tourists as a 200+km/h high speed trains blasted through the stations mere an inch or two from you! Seriously impressive, you could feel the rush of wind from the tunnel a good 30 seconds before the train blew by. And nothing but a yellow line to separate you.

I can't see why there would be an issue with a fence dividing the track from a footpath.

In fact there are many homes all over the country where the back garden and children are only separated from the train by a fence, that doesn't seem to be an issue. Also I'd note that as you come into Greystones along the Bray to Greystones Cliffside walk, the footpath is only about 2m from the track.

As an aside about trains in Italy. I was staying in a place called Cinque Terre, 5 little towns connected by a regional train. But the regional train was damn impressive. Even though the towns were only 3 to 5km apart, the train was quickly accelerating to 100km/h between the stations and double decker trains too, all for just €4! Imagine the DART going that fast between stops!

zom · 18-09-2018 10:43am

bk wrote: »

I can't see why there would be an issue with a fence dividing the track from a footpath.

Money. If you count all costs - politics, managers, consultanst, designers, engineers, manufacturers and builders it will be the most expensive fence in the world.

bk · 18-09-2018 10:49am

zom wrote: »

Money. If you count all costs - politics, managers, consultanst, designers, engineers, manufacturers and builders it will be the most expensive fence in the world.

Rail tracks up and down the length of the country have fences, it doesn't cost hardly anything to put up a fence. Very minor cost, in the overall cost of a rail route.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a footpath and rail track being side by side and separated by a fence.

westtip · 18-09-2018 12:27pm

bk wrote: »

Rail tracks up and down the length of the country have fences, it doesn't cost hardly anything to put up a fence. Very minor cost, in the overall cost of a rail route.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a footpath and rail track being side by side and separated by a fence.

You don't gettit BK there is a mindset that wants to stop greenways at all costs! Of course a parallel greenway could go alongside a re-opened Athlone Mullingar line. Dacor in a post above is also right the greatest priority should be double tracking on all our mainline services. We have a huge housing crisis in Dublin, guess what in any European City you go to they have fast commuter services running into city centres, there is nothing wrong with working in a city and living 30 50 or 60 miles away but you need the train service running early, fast, frequently and with late night trains home to proper commuter towns. Take Longford, Mullingar Athlone they should all be no more than 40 minutes from the city centre by train and you should be able to train home at 11 at night and be home by midnight. Thousands of houses could be built in these areas, to grow the economies of these towns as long as there was fast reliable and heavily subsidized rail services into the city, there is nothing wrong with rail subsidisies to shift a lot of people quickly and safely into and out of city centres, we have to face facts about the western rail corridor the critical mass does not exist and cannot be created out of thin air with a wave of the wand.

Isambard · 18-09-2018 1:11pm

even a fence is only a sop to those who say it would be dangerous, it clearly wouldn't be.

In the US freight and even Amtrak trains run right up the main streets of some towns.

bk · 18-09-2018 1:18pm

westtip wrote: »

You don't gettit BK there is a mindset that wants to stop greenways at all costs!

Oh I gettit, what I don't get is, why? What is the logic behind it, because I honestly can't see any argument against them?

Why would someone be against a piece of infrastructure that allows locals to go for a walk or run or bring their kids for a cycle in safety without having to worry about dirty diesel being blown into your face as cars rush by.

We have a beautiful countryside, but it is very inaccessible, small closed off fields and no right to rambling laws mean that ironically they are few places people in rural Ireland people can actually go to walk and enjoy the countryside!

And as a result, we have one of the most obese countries in the world! I absolutely believe that we need to build greenways, walkways and hiking trails all over the country for both the mental and physical health of our people.

Greenways bringing in tourists and extra jobs is the cherry on top. But the health benefits to the locals I believe is the most important thing.

Why anyone would be against this, I simply don't understand.

And I don't buy the excuse that it will make re-opening the rail routes harder. Actually the opposite is true. We all know that closed rail lines end up getting encouraged on and built on making them less likely to ever open again.

A greenway will protect the route, bring local pride in it and nothing stopping a rail route being built next to it. Non at all.

westtip wrote: »

Dacor in a post above is also right the greatest priority should be double tracking on all our mainline services. We have a huge housing crisis in Dublin, guess what in any European City you go to they have fast commuter services running into city centres, there is nothing wrong with working in a city and living 30 50 or 60 miles away but you need the train service running early, fast, frequently and with late night trains home to proper commuter towns. Take Longford, Mullingar Athlone they should all be no more than 40 minutes from the city centre by train and you should be able to train home at 11 at night and be home by midnight. Thousands of houses could be built in these areas, to grow the economies of these towns as long as there was fast reliable and heavily subsidized rail services into the city, there is nothing wrong with rail subsidisies to shift a lot of people quickly and safely into and out of city centres, we have to face facts about the western rail corridor the critical mass does not exist and cannot be created out of thin air with a wave of the wand.

I agree completely. In the past of been accused of being anti-rail, which is mad, since I want to see the government invest billions in improving rail!

But I want that money to be invested wisely. Invested in the areas where it is most badly needed and most sustainable.

The reality is that it isn't the 1850's anymore and things change. We have the car now and the reality is most people have one and it has radically changed the landscape for rail.

No one living in rural Ireland is going to take a train where a car will get them there in half the time. Hell even if the train was the same or faster, most will still take the car.

That is just the unfortunate reality and it isn't going to go away. If rail wants to expand and grow, then it needs to focus on delivering better services in the areas where rail can beat the car. Namely into and around congested cities as you say.

Here rail can absolutely beat cars stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and it is here where most rail investment should be focused IMO.

Greenways can today usefully use more rural alignments, while protecting them for future generations if circumstances change.

18-09-2018 1:21pm

Yesterdays broadcast on Galway Bay FM

Piece starts at 41:00 give or take a few secs

eastwest · 18-09-2018 1:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yesterdays broadcast on Galway Bay FM

Piece starts at 41:00 give or take a few secs

A serious own goal by WOT putting that lad on at this point in the debate.
I thought the lady who asked whether she should feel intimidated by candidates calling to their doors summed it up nicely.

18-09-2018 1:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yesterdays broadcast on Galway Bay FM

Piece starts at 41:00 give or take a few secs

Main points he raises

Claims someone is texting Councillors claiming to be a voter in multiple EA's and saying they won't vote for them next May. Says this individual is from Ballyglunin, Ballinastack and Galway City (huh??)
Says emails and texts are nusiances
Says being contacted by the same person multiple times is that person trying to make it appear they are more than one person (the mind boggles at this one. Are we only allowed to send a single communication to a Councillor on an issue???)
This is keyboard cowardice!
Offers to talk to people
Being contacted by constituents is a nuisance
Very much in favour of greenways
Against a greenway on the rail line or even adjacent
See's the line, not used for 42 years, as a valuable piece of infrastructure
Intercity rail line that could possibly connect Waterford > Cork > Limerick > Galway > Sligo > Derry
Keith reads out a litany of texts calling out the BS
Text calls out the poor usage according to WOT's original estimate, Michael then lies about the original business case
Que another flood of texts
Presenter is struggling to keep up with the volume of texts coming in
Presenter highlights the Tuam rally on Sunday 23rd at 3pm, meeting at the Tuam Cathedral
Later in the show presenter again talks about the volume of texts still coming in so says they will have to do more on the greenway over the next few days

eastwest · 18-09-2018 2:15pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Main points he raises
Claims someone is texting Councillors claiming to be a voter in multiple EA's and saying they won't vote for them next May. Says this individual is from Ballyglunin, Ballinastack and Galway City (huh??)

Says emails and texts are nusiances

Says being contacted by the same person multiple times is that person trying to make it appear they are more than one person (the mind boggles at this one. Are we only allowed to send a single communication to a Councillor on an issue???)

This is keyboard cowardice!

Offers to talk to people

Being contacted by constituents is a nuisance

Very much in favour of greenways

Against a greenway on the rail line or even adjacent

See's the line, not used for 42 years, as a valuable piece of infrastructure

Intercity rail line that could possibly connect Waterford > Cork > Limerick > Galway > Sligo > Derry

Keith reads out a litany of texts calling out the BS

Text calls out the poor usage according to WOT's original estimate, Michael then lies about the original business case

Que another flood of texts

Presenter is struggling to keep up with the volume of texts coming in

Presenter highlights the Tuam rally on Sunday 23rd at 3pm, meeting at the Tuam Cathedral

Later in the show presenter again talks about the volume of texts still coming in so says they will have to do more on the greenway over the next few days

He doesn't want voters emailing or texting him about issues that concern them, and he also says that he might sometimes answer a few of them -- effectively an admission he ignores any concerns coming from voters unless they coincide with the views of himself and his little group of cronies.
How do some of these guys get elected? Is the role of councillor so uninteresting that good people avoid it like the plague?

westtip · 18-09-2018 2:49pm

bk wrote: »

Oh I gettit, what I don't get is, why? What is the logic behind it, because I honestly can't see any argument against them?

bk I was being tongue in cheek, agree with all you say!

bk · 18-09-2018 3:11pm

westtip wrote: »

bk I was being tongue in cheek, agree with all you say!

Oh I know, sorry, it wasn't aimed at you, more at those who actually want to block greenways, I really just don't get the logic at all.

Why would anyone not want a piece of infrastructure that will help make local people happy, healthier and bring tourists and jobs! It really is crazy and makes zero sense.

marno21 · 18-09-2018 3:38pm

bk wrote: »

That is just the unfortunate reality and it isn't going to go away. If rail wants to expand and grow, then it needs to focus on delivering better services in the areas where rail can beat the car. Namely into and around congested cities as you say.

Here rail can absolutely beat cars stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and it is here where most rail investment should be focused IMO.

Greenways can today usefully use more rural alignments, while protecting them for future generations if circumstances change.

The above argument would be a great argument for reopening Tuam-Athenry for Galway services.

Except for the fact that most of the people on the N17 are people driving to the many car centric business parks around Galway, and other trip generators like NUIG and UHG, none of which are near the train station, and all have pathetic public transport service.

This is why I think the Midleton-Youghal railway is more viable. There is a serious drive in Cork to densify the city centre and have a vibrant city full of workers, and with people living nearby in the Docklands. That will require a major modal shift to public transport, it can't all be served by the car. The same can't be said for the Parkmore/Ballybrit.

Isambard · 18-09-2018 3:56pm

yes but if you ranked the various possible projects in order of cost/benefit, the Youghal line would be way down the list and any investment should go to the projects which offer the greatest return There's a danger that people will want to re-open old lines just "because they are there" and they'd love to see trains running on them, rather than looking at the greater picture.

Lord Glentoran · 18-09-2018 5:08pm

Isambard wrote: »

yes but if you ranked the various possible projects in order of cost/benefit, the Youghal line would be way down the list and any investment should go to the projects which offer the greatest return There's a danger that people will want to re-open old lines just "because they are there" and they'd love to see trains running on them, rather than looking at the greater picture.

Well once the cycleway is put on the track bed then that’s Cheerio and goodbye to the railway, permanently. Comber proves that.

Muckyboots · 18-09-2018 5:27pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Well once the cycleway is put on the track bed then that’s Cheerio and goodbye to the railway, permanently. Comber proves that.

Useless circular argument. A city suberb cycle-link, in a different jurisdiction, with bus lanes not trains and a government who pulled the funding before the argument even got off the ground proves nothing.

westtip · 18-09-2018 5:58pm

Hey guess what the rail review of the Western Rail Corridor is at least a year away. Canney has done well, promised it within six months of government, he is now out of government and his report probably won't see light of day due to an election which may as likely happen next summer! Well done you did as your masters in Claremorris wanted.

Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign

September 18th 2018 for immediate release

• Report on Western Rail Corridor could take up to a year
• Independent Consultants will not be appointed until December
• Greenway Feasibility Study and Rail Review should both be completed at same time
• Galway East Greenway support now massive with 22,000 on-line petitioners and 10,000 members of ‘Quiet Man Greenway group’

A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign, a community-based movement to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible, today said; ‘we have learned from Irish Rail that the process of completing the report into the future of the closed railway from Athenry to Claremorris could take longer than we expected, and may not be completed before late 2019’.

The project manager of the report at Irish Rail has advised the campaign that the Terms of Reference for the Rail Review Report have now been sent to the Department of Transport for approval. Irish Rail say it will be mid-December before the independent consultant is appointed to conduct the review of the closed railway.

‘We realise due process has to be followed but it is getting a bit frustrating’ said the spokesperson of the Western Rail Trail campaign. ‘If the independent consultant is not appointed until December 2018 these things have a habit of dragging on’ the spokesperson continued. ‘This is the report the former independent Alliance Minister Sean Canney TD insisted on being completed within six months of his giving support to the government. Mr Canney is no longer in government and failed to deliver on his promise of this review. It always seems to be ‘let’s wait for a report’. Why is that? Is this report just being delayed in order to smother debate on the greenway option?’

With the rail review report unlikely to see light of day until the end of 2019, this now makes the vote in favour of a feasibility study for a greenway on the closed railway at Galway County Council on September 24th all the more important. ‘The railway review and Greenway feasibility should both be done at the same time’ said the spokesperson ‘There is no reason for the motion in favour of a feasibility study to be blocked, the rail report and the greenway feasibility study can be completed and then a decision can be made. One report is not dependent on the other’, added the spokesperson.

The campaign for a greenway from Athenry to Sligo is attracting growing support. The on-line petition in support of the greenway has risen to 22,000 signatures. ‘What is really amazing over the last few months’ said teh spokesperson ‘has been the massive increase in support for the campaign in Galway. The local Galway campaign group have named the Galway section of the Greenway ‘The Quiet Man Greenway’ and the Quiet Man Greenway Facebook group created to support the campaign has risen to over 10,000 members.

‘The support in Galway East in towns like Tuam Athenry and Milltown is nothing short of phenomenal’ said spokesperson ’ and there is little doubt this has the potential to be a huge issue in the local elections in May 2019’.

ENDS: body text 486 words
Contacts: Westtip (some of you may know his name!!)
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign

voz es · 19-09-2018 11:29am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Useless circular argument. A city suberb cycle-link, in a different jurisdiction, with bus lanes not trains and a government who pulled the funding before the argument even got off the ground proves nothing.

And that is where your argument falls down Mucky boots, you and your cronies are fighting to make a rail corridor unusable and and thousands of green underdeveloped land all around you. Surely if it is in the states interest that you would be canvasing for a separate bike trail with nice wooden humpback bridges over the rivers and 6ft bridges over the M/N roads.

voz es · 19-09-2018 11:39am

marno21 wrote: »

The above argument would be a great argument for reopening Tuam-Athenry for Galway services.

Except for the fact that most of the people on the N17 are people driving to the many car centric business parks around Galway, and other trip generators like NUIG and UHG, none of which are near the train station, and all have pathetic public transport service.

Currently the Grid locked Galway city has been well exposed to calls for a light rail/ tram like system in their city. There is the well publicised ring road that is the very final ring road that they will be able to get. major lakes are to the north of the city making a further outer ring road unviable. In twenty years time with further expansion the ONLY answer will be light or under ground rail around the city. Of course we should be providing the infrastructure to link up with that. Unfortunately, GCC suffers from the fall out of short term politics.

Thus, your argument is blinkered as the point of view that all the same folks who are here fighting for a bike track now, wont be fighting to keep it of have another ball of money spent on building a track on land that should be supported right now or for the hypothetical bike track to remain.

voz es · 19-09-2018 11:39am

[/QUOTE]
Press release From: The Western Rail Trail campaign

September 18th 2018 for immediate release

• Report on Western Rail Corridor could take up to a year
• Independent Consultants will not be appointed until December
• Greenway Feasibility Study and Rail Review should both be completed at same time
• Galway East Greenway support now massive with 22,000 on-line petitioners and 10,000 members of ‘Quiet Man Greenway group’[/B]

A spokesman for the Western Rail Trail Campaign, a community-based movement to preserve the alignment of the closed rail line from Athenry to Collooney by utilising the route for tourism and leisure as a greenway until such time as a railway may be possible, today said; ‘we have learned from Irish Rail that the process of completing the report into the future of the closed railway from Athenry to Claremorris could take longer than we expected, and may not be completed before late 2019’.

The project manager of the report at Irish Rail has advised the campaign that the Terms of Reference for the Rail Review Report have now been sent to the Department of Transport for approval. Irish Rail say it will be mid-December before the independent consultant is appointed to conduct the review of the closed railway.

‘We realise due process has to be followed but it is getting a bit frustrating’ said the spokesperson of the Western Rail Trail campaign. ‘If the independent consultant is not appointed until December 2018 these things have a habit of dragging on’ the spokesperson continued. ‘This is the report the former independent Alliance Minister Sean Canney TD insisted on being completed within six months of his giving support to the government. Mr Canney is no longer in government and failed to deliver on his promise of this review. It always seems to be ‘let’s wait for a report’. Why is that? Is this report just being delayed in order to smother debate on the greenway option?’

With the rail review report unlikely to see light of day until the end of 2019, this now makes the vote in favour of a feasibility study for a greenway on the closed railway at Galway County Council on September 24th all the more important. ‘The railway review and Greenway feasibility should both be done at the same time’ said the spokesperson ‘There is no reason for the motion in favour of a feasibility study to be blocked, the rail report and the greenway feasibility study can be completed and then a decision can be made. One report is not dependent on the other’, added the spokesperson.

The campaign for a greenway from Athenry to Sligo is attracting growing support. The on-line petition in support of the greenway has risen to 22,000 signatures. ‘What is really amazing over the last few months’ said teh spokesperson ‘has been the massive increase in support for the campaign in Galway. The local Galway campaign group have named the Galway section of the Greenway ‘The Quiet Man Greenway’ and the Quiet Man Greenway Facebook group created to support the campaign has risen to over 10,000 members.

‘The support in Galway East in towns like Tuam Athenry and Milltown is nothing short of phenomenal’ said spokesperson ’ and there is little doubt this has the potential to be a huge issue in the local elections in May 2019’.

ENDS: body text 486 words
Contacts: Westtip (some of you may know his name!!)
Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaign[/QUOTE]

LOL

voz es · 19-09-2018 11:43am

marno21 wrote: »

I think the Midleton-Youghal railway is more viable. There is a serious drive in Cork to densify the city centre and have a vibrant city full of workers, and with people living nearby in the Docklands. That will require a major modal shift to public transport

Marno21 you have my respect for standing up for your region and calling for infrastructural investment there, good for you.

See this just proves its not a bike track that is your priority but blocking Western infrastructural advancement so that your region gets a jump. I really hope the people in the counties of Donegal, Sligo, Mayo and Galway are able to see who there are so many outside of your region signing petitions for a bike track in your region.

marno21 · 19-09-2018 11:44am

voz es wrote: »

Currently the Grid locked Galway city has been well exposed to calls for a light rail/ tram like system in their city. There is the well publicised ring road that is the very final ring road that they will be able to get. major lakes are to the north of the city making a further outer ring road unviable. In twenty years time with further expansion the ONLY answer will be light or under ground rail around the city. Of course we should be providing the infrastructure to link up with that. Unfortunately, GCC suffers from the fall out of short term politics.

Thus, your argument is blinkered as the point of view that all the same folks who are here fighting for a bike track now, wont be fighting to keep it of have another ball of money spent on building a track on land that should be supported right now or for the hypothetical bike track to remain.

The NTA have made it clear that light rail is not the solution for Galway city and will not be going ahead. Thus Galway will be relying on the bus

People from Tuam are not going to get a train via Athenry to Ceannt Station and then get a bus. Especially when this solution requires major capital spending

voz es · 19-09-2018 11:52am

marno21 wrote: »

The NTA have made it clear that light rail is not the solution for Galway city and will not be going ahead. Thus Galway will be relying on the bus

People from Tuam are not going to get a train via Athenry to Ceannt Station and then get a bus. Especially when this solution requires major capital spending

Did you know that the line in completion would have travelled to Letterkenny once,well past Tuam. However, with regard to light rail

The NTA hey, do you reckon it was Jackie Healy Ray or the folks in charge of the roads that decided to put that fine big road into your own county.

what_traffic · 19-09-2018 11:55am

Galway Cycling Campaign - FEACHTAS ROTHAIOCHTA NA GAILLIMHE

Press release in my email inbox this morning.

News Release - 18 September 2018

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

HEADLINES

Athenry Tuam Greenway is Galway's only chance for foreseeable future say Cycle Campaigners

MAIN BODY

The Galway Cycling Campaign is writing to all the county councillors calling on them to support a feasibility study into the use of the disused Athenry - Tuam - Miltown railway as a Greenway. The cyclists say the Athenry to Miltown proposals are Galway's best chance to achieve a long distance cycling and walking amenity for the county for the foreseeable future. They say that little progress can be expected on either the Connemara Greenway or the Dublin-Galway proposals following the publication of a fundamentally flawed Government Greenway Strategy last July.

According to the campaigners Athenry to Tuam is effectively "tarmac ready" with no questions about land ownership and with CIE, the single land owner, amenable to granting a licence for the use of the route. CIE have also stated that the corridor could be converted back to railway use if needed.

In contrast they raise the "Strategy for the Future Development of National and Regional Greenways" published last July which they describe as fundamentally flawed and implies more conflict with private landowners who are a key stakeholder group. The overwhelming focus of the strategy document is on "constructing" greenways as new roads through lands. The focus on constructing new roads through lands assures more conflict with landowners on the Dublin-Galway route and that little progress can be expected here for the foreseeable future. The public consultation guidelines provided with the Greenway Strategy put consultation with landowners as the last step in the process. According to the cycling campaign this assures more conflict with landowners. The same issue will arise with those sections of the Connemara Greenway where there has been no agreement to date.

"Given the profoundly flawed nature of the Greenway Strategy our view is that Athenry-Tuam now represents the best chance for a long-distance Greenway in Galway." stated Shane Foran for the campaign. "For the moment the best thing for Connemara and East Galway is a cooling off period to reduce tension" he continued "if built the Athenry Tuam Greenway will need connections to other places in the county and these will naturally grow to link towards both Dublin and Connemara."

ENDS

Reference

http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/publications/english/strategy-future-development-national-and-regional-greenways

Comment: Despite various attempts at more positive language the consultation process given at the back of the document puts discussions with landowners at the bottom of the list.

Background reading
http://www.galwaycycling.org/july-2017-greenway-consultation-is-misconceived-and-should-be-set-aside/

http://www.galwaycycling.org/december-2016-eurovelo-2-galway-moscow-department-consultation-sets-up-more-conflict-with-local-communities/

voz es · 19-09-2018 12:44pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Galway Cycling Campaign - FEACHTAS ROTHAIOCHTA NA GAILLIMHE

Press release in my email inbox this morning.

News Release - 18 September 2018

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

HEADLINES

Athenry Tuam Greenway is Galway's only chance for foreseeable future say Cycle Campaigners

MAIN BODY

The Galway Cycling Campaign is writing to all the county councillors calling on them to support a feasibility study into the use of the disused Athenry - Tuam - Miltown railway as a Greenway. The cyclists say the Athenry to Miltown proposals are Galway's best chance to achieve a long distance cycling and walking amenity for the county for the foreseeable future. They say that little progress can be expected on either the Connemara Greenway or the Dublin-Galway proposals following the publication of a fundamentally flawed Government Greenway Strategy last July.

According to the campaigners Athenry to Tuam is effectively "tarmac ready" with no questions about land ownership and with CIE, the single land owner, amenable to granting a licence for the use of the route. CIE have also stated that the corridor could be converted back to railway use if needed.

In contrast they raise the "Strategy for the Future Development of National and Regional Greenways" published last July which they describe as fundamentally flawed and implies more conflict with private landowners who are a key stakeholder group. The overwhelming focus of the strategy document is on "constructing" greenways as new roads through lands. The focus on constructing new roads through lands assures more conflict with landowners on the Dublin-Galway route and that little progress can be expected here for the foreseeable future. The public consultation guidelines provided with the Greenway Strategy put consultation with landowners as the last step in the process. According to the cycling campaign this assures more conflict with landowners. The same issue will arise with those sections of the Connemara Greenway where there has been no agreement to date.

"Given the profoundly flawed nature of the Greenway Strategy our view is that Athenry-Tuam now represents the best chance for a long-distance Greenway in Galway." stated Shane Foran for the campaign. "For the moment the best thing for Connemara and East Galway is a cooling off period to reduce tension" he continued "if built the Athenry Tuam Greenway will need connections to other places in the county and these will naturally grow to link towards both Dublin and Connemara."

ENDS

Reference

http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/publications/english/strategy-future-development-national-and-regional-greenways

Comment: Despite various attempts at more positive language the consultation process given at the back of the document puts discussions with landowners at the bottom of the list.

Background reading
http://www.galwaycycling.org/july-2017-greenway-consultation-is-misconceived-and-should-be-set-aside/

http://www.galwaycycling.org/december-2016-eurovelo-2-galway-moscow-department-consultation-sets-up-more-conflict-with-local-communities/

It is very well worth noting that one of the authors behind that dittas report asked for submissions on the western rail corridor and is not backing it since.

Fantastic news here and I think you will find that there is a fine big lump on land at connemara national park for your plan B:
www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/08/30/4161174-work-starts-on-new-west-mayo-greenway-trail/

voz es · 19-09-2018 12:48pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Galway Cycling Campaign - FEACHTAS ROTHAIOCHTA NA GAILLIMHE

Press release in my email inbox this morning.

News Release - 18 September 2018

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

HEADLINES

Athenry Tuam Greenway is Galway's only chance for foreseeable future say Cycle Campaigners

MAIN BODY

The Galway Cycling Campaign is writing to all the county councillors calling on them to support a feasibility study into the use of the disused Athenry - Tuam - Miltown railway as a Greenway. The cyclists say the Athenry to Miltown proposals are Galway's best chance to achieve a long distance cycling and walking amenity for the county for the foreseeable future. They say that little progress can be expected on either the Connemara Greenway or the Dublin-Galway proposals following the publication of a fundamentally flawed Government Greenway Strategy last July.

According to the campaigners Athenry to Tuam is effectively "tarmac ready" with no questions about land ownership and with CIE, the single land owner, amenable to granting a licence for the use of the route. CIE have also stated that the corridor could be converted back to railway use if needed.

In contrast they raise the "Strategy for the Future Development of National and Regional Greenways" published last July which they describe as fundamentally flawed and implies more conflict with private landowners who are a key stakeholder group. The overwhelming focus of the strategy document is on "constructing" greenways as new roads through lands. The focus on constructing new roads through lands assures more conflict with landowners on the Dublin-Galway route and that little progress can be expected here for the foreseeable future. The public consultation guidelines provided with the Greenway Strategy put consultation with landowners as the last step in the process. According to the cycling campaign this assures more conflict with landowners. The same issue will arise with those sections of the Connemara Greenway where there has been no agreement to date.

"Given the profoundly flawed nature of the Greenway Strategy our view is that Athenry-Tuam now represents the best chance for a long-distance Greenway in Galway." stated Shane Foran for the campaign. "For the moment the best thing for Connemara and East Galway is a cooling off period to reduce tension" he continued "if built the Athenry Tuam Greenway will need connections to other places in the county and these will naturally grow to link towards both Dublin and Connemara."

ENDS

Reference

http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/publications/english/strategy-future-development-national-and-regional-greenways

Comment: Despite various attempts at more positive language the consultation process given at the back of the document puts discussions with landowners at the bottom of the list.

Background reading
http://www.galwaycycling.org/july-2017-greenway-consultation-is-misconceived-and-should-be-set-aside/

http://www.galwaycycling.org/december-2016-eurovelo-2-galway-moscow-department-consultation-sets-up-more-conflict-with-local-communities/

Why are you not you baking a river suck green way? Thes a big under developed region of galway for sure

Muckyboots · 19-09-2018 1:19pm

voz es wrote: »

Why are you not you baking a river suck green way? Thes a big under developed region of galway for sure

You might be confusing state ownership with riparian rights of way. River banks are private property. CPOs and all that jazz..

19-09-2018 5:18pm

The tide is changing. The following was just posted to the Quiet Man Greenway group on Facebook by Minister Ciaran Cannon

WONDERFUL NEWS FOR ALL 10,000 OF US

Loughrea based independent Councillor Pat Hynes has just released this statement. We are deeply indebted to him for acknowledging the depth of feeling that exists within our local communities on this issue and for committing to supporting our feasibility study next Monday. Thank you Cllr. Hynes. You can text a “Thank You” to him on 0872404404.

“Loughrea-based Councillor to vote in favour of greenway feasibility study

Loughrea`s Councillor Pat Hynes is to vote in favour of next Monday`s feasibility study for the Quiet Man Greenway.

Councillor Hynes said “While I am a supporter of the eventual re-opening of the rail line north of Athenry, I am first and foremost a public representative and as such, I have always endeavoured to listen to the views of my constituents”

“Therefore, I cannot ignore the widespread support that the Quiet Man Greenway project has received, not just in Athenry, Milltown and Tuam, but across our county with support from all generations of people including sports clubs, schools and the business community”.

“This support is more than evident”.

“I am mindful of the statement issued recently by Minister Ciaran Cannon that the Board of CIE, when entering into a licencing agreement with a local authority for the development of a greenway on CIE lands, always includes a clause requiring that the licence can be revoked at any time if the Board has alternative plans for the lands”.

“I also note that such a clause has already been used in the licences issued for the Waterford and Westmeath greenways and that there is no reason why that would not happen in the instance of the proposed Quiet Man Greenway”.

“For these reasons I will be voting in favour of the proposed feasibility study at next Monday`s Council meeting”.

voz es · 19-09-2018 5:22pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

You might be confusing state ownership with riparian rights of way. River banks are private property. CPOs and all that jazz..

Yep, Compulsory Purchase orders there is an idea and concept behind that terminology.

And if you would like to get into the nuts and bolts of Freehold titles and its limitations, I hold quite a lot of experience in that field.

So tell me more about your concepts with regard to CPO's and why you feel that a Greenway in this location would not be a justifiable reason for such an action.

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2018 11:11pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

You might be confusing state ownership with riparian rights of way. River banks are private property. CPOs and all that jazz..

Fair point. Except the King of Greenways, Mayo's Great Western Greenway, managed just fine the non CPO way.

Losty Dublin · 19-09-2018 11:14pm

voz es wrote: »

Fantastic news here and I think you will find that there is a fine big lump on land at connemara national park for your plan B:
www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2018/08/30/4161174-work-starts-on-new-west-mayo-greenway-trail/

On the trackbed of the Lord Altamount and Reek Sunday Light Railway, I do believe

eastwest · 19-09-2018 11:46pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Fair point. Except the King of Greenways, Mayo's Great Western Greenway, managed just fine the non CPO way.

It didn't, it's been plagued with post construction dissent from landowners, including one extended closure because of an unrelated issue.
The problems that arose in Mayo are the reason why the new greenway strategy leans away from the permissive access model.

20-09-2018 12:09am

And another Galway County Councillor, Jim Cuddy, changes from a No to a Yes vote.

The following posted on The Quiet Man Greenway facebook group a short while ago

Our deep gratitude to Cllr. Jim Cuddy who has confirmed this evening to one of our campaign members, Fidelma Nunn, that he will be supporting our feasibility study next Monday. Jim is a hard working Councillor who always puts the interest of our local communities at the heart of everything that he does. Thanks Cllr. Cuddy. Please text your message of thanks to him at *(087) 636 0242‬. Thanks also to Fidelma Nunn for taking the time to email Cllr. Cuddy.

eastwest · 20-09-2018 1:14am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And another Galway County Councillor, Jim Cuddy, changes from a No to a Yes vote.

The following posted on The Quiet Man Greenway facebook group a short while ago

It now appears that a lot of Galway councillors are taking courage from each other and overcoming the collective stagnation that had them opposing the logical approach. No doubt they are also concerned at the huge surge of public opinion that threatens to oust a few of them at next year's polls.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 21-09-2018 11:33am

eastwest wrote: »

It now appears that a lot of Galway councillors are taking courage from each other and overcoming the collective stagnation that had them opposing the logical approach. No doubt they are also concerned at the huge surge of public opinion that threatens to oust a few of them at next year's polls.

What??? Politicians acting in self interest?

Just to ask, what will the feasibility study achieve? Will it give impetus to the greenway being created?

Or will Athenry and Galway county miss out on something again?

Corca Baiscinn · 21-09-2018 11:37am

what_traffic wrote: »

Galway Cycling Campaign - FEACHTAS ROTHAIOCHTA NA GAILLIMHE

Press release in my email inbox this morning.

News Release - 18 September 2018

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

HEADLINES

Athenry Tuam Greenway is Galway's only chance for foreseeable future say Cycle Campaigners

MAIN BODY

.....The cyclists say the Athenry to Miltown proposals are Galway's best chance to achieve a long distance cycling and walking amenity for the county for the foreseeable future. They say that little progress can be expected on either the Connemara Greenway or the Dublin-Galway proposals following the publication of a fundamentally flawed Government Greenway Strategy last July.

In contrast they raise the "Strategy for the Future Development of National and Regional Greenways" published last July which they describe as fundamentally flawed and implies more conflict with private landowners who are a key stakeholder group. ...... The public consultation guidelines provided with the Greenway Strategy put consultation with landowners as the last step in the process. According to the cycling campaign this assures more conflict with landowners. The same issue will arise with those sections of the Connemara Greenway where there has been no agreement to date.

ENDS

Reference

http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/publications/english/strategy-future-development-national-and-regional-greenways

Comment: Despite various attempts at more positive language the consultation process given at the back of the document puts discussions with landowners at the bottom of the list.

Background reading
http://www.galwaycycling.org/july-2017-greenway-consultation-is-misconceived-and-should-be-set-aside/

Galway Cycling Camaign are right that TII made a hames of the consultation process re Dub/Galway Greenway nd great taht they support the WRC one but I dont buy their reasoning re - "support this one because the other potential Galway ones wont work due to the flawed Greenway Strategy" It's true that consultation with individual landowners is no 4 on the consultation guidelines but 1st sentence in no 2 is "Every effort should be made to devise a route that maximises the support of the community and potentially affected
landowners" No 1. is about the overall route choice so you have to have some idea where you what to go before you know which landowners will be affected. The Application form for funding has 27 questions and numbers 8 to 14 are about the consultation process engaged in by the applicant. The funding Criteria Guidelines issued with the application form under
Project Development, Consultation, Planning and Design Status starts
Projects that meet the criteria and are most likely to be delivered in the near future will be best placed to be allocated funding. Therefore projects that have comprehensively developed their route through local consultation and have the requisite support and buy-in, have clarity regarding access to the land on which the Greenway will be built as well a shaving planning permission in place, or that are expected to have planning permission in place within the first quarter of 2019, will be a stronger position for this round of funding.
Projects seeking funding will need to describe the consultative process undertaken and provide clarity on mitigation measures to be provided to landowners and attempts to minimise severance of landholdings.
Have never seen myself as a cheer-leader for DTASS under Shane Ross but I think the above shows they have learned something form the Galway debacle

http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/tourism/english/greenways-strategy-outline-funding-criteria/greenways-strategy-outline-funding-criteria.pdf

http://www.dttas.ie/tourism/publications/english/greenways-application-form

eastwest · 21-09-2018 1:17pm

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

What??? Politicians acting in self interest?

Just to ask, what will the feasibility study achieve? Will it give impetus to the greenway being created?

Or will Athenry and Galway county miss out on something again?

The study is a necessary step in the funding process.
But never underestimate the wheeling and dealing that comes into play when projects are looking for funding. Claremorris chamber of Commerce in mayo has apparently been lobbying Galway councillors to vote against the study. I suppose the less funding that goes to Galway, the more there is for Michael Ring to spend in mayo.
Athenry tends to be well back in the queue for everything, and Tuam isn't even lined up.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 21-09-2018 2:30pm

eastwest wrote: »

The study is a necessary step in the funding process.
But never underestimate the wheeling and dealing that comes into play when projects are looking for funding. Claremorris chamber of Commerce in mayo has apparently been lobbying Galway councillors to vote against the study. I suppose the less funding that goes to Galway, the more there is for Michael Ring to spend in mayo.
Athenry tends to be well back in the queue for everything, and Tuam isn't even lined up.

True, Tuam isn't even getting the chance to have their Apple Data Centre turned down.

Poor bastids.

westtip · 23-09-2018 6:25pm

Unbelievable Turn out in Tuam today sure more pics and notices will be put up, just got in worth the round trip from County Sligo today was momentus.

what_traffic · 23-09-2018 6:27pm

westtip wrote: »

Unbelievable Turn out in Tuam today sure more pics and notices will be put up, just got in worth the round trip from County Sligo today was momentus.

Will be on TG4 News tonight.
https://twitter.com/Curraighin/status/1043879143698571264
"
Cúpla míle duine ag léiriú tacaíochta do Bhealach Glas ‘The Quiet Man’ i dTuaim @NuachtTG4 Several thousand at Tuam rally in support of Athenry to Milltown Greenway
"

westtip · 23-09-2018 6:30pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Will be on TG4 News tonight.
https://twitter.com/Curraighin/status/1043879143698571264
"
Cúpla míle duine ag léiriú tacaíochta do Bhealach Glas ‘The Quiet Man’ i dTuaim @NuachtTG4 Several thousand at Tuam rally in support of Athenry to Milltown Greenway
"

Someone in Claremorris will be spitting venom in irish.

serfboard · 23-09-2018 6:42pm

westtip wrote: »

Unbelievable Turn out in Tuam today sure more pics and notices will be put up, just got in worth the round trip from County Sligo today was momentus.

Some photos from today

what_traffic · 23-09-2018 7:12pm

serfboard wrote: »

Some photos from today

Great support

eastwest · 23-09-2018 7:43pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Great support

Councillors who ignore thousands of people have obviously decided that politics is not for them.

serfboard · 23-09-2018 9:06pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2018/0923/995623-rally-tuam-greenway

Corca Baiscinn · 23-09-2018 9:08pm

what_traffic wrote: »

Great support

Agreed but this was final event before the councillors vote re feasibility study tomorrow and was preceded by a intensive well-organised campaign contacting "Yes" & "No" councillors by text & posting on the quiet Man FB page.. Assuming result tomorrow is positive its a fantastic example of people-power or how those of us who spend a lot of time venting on Social Media also need to be tactical and link our vote to what we need cycling-wise, Their FB page is inspirational. Probably helps too that there is cross-party support with Ciaran Canon and Anne Rabbitte on same page

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Comments