Clare GAA discussion thread

mountgomery burns · 16-09-2018 08:48PM

Clareman wrote: »

Waterford will probably have to come up with a new style of play, their "sweeper type" system has seen it's day I think. I don't know if I'd be calling Tipp the kingpins of Munster, this decade they've had 4 Munster and 2 All Ireland titles, that doesn't scream domiantion to me

Going back to 2008 (10 years ago) they've won 6/11 Munsters with two all Ireland's appearing in another 3 finals, one league title and I'd say at least another 5 league final appearances. And in that time frame they were regularly hammering Munster teams. But I think while they still have plenty of talent it's catching up with them now. I'm sure they'll be competitive but I don't expect any all irelands for a few years.

Clareman · 16-09-2018 09:05PM

I'd prefer to go into a general thread or a Munster thread to debate Tipp but in the past 10 finals they have won 5, Cork have won 3 with Limerick & Waterford with 1 each, I think Clare and Waterford at the only Munster counties to win a NHL title in the same time period.

deaddonkey15 · 16-09-2018 09:53PM

Clareman wrote: »

I think Limerick showed this year that the route to take is the third place playoffs, I know a lot of people want a Munster title but I would be willing to do without 1, this year's one was there for the taking except for the idiotic warm up. It was pointed out to me recently that Clare have only won 4 All Ireland's in the past 100 years and 3 All Ireland's in the past 25, we're an All Ireland team really :D

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Best way to get to an All-Ireland final is the route Cork took and had they held on for another couple of minutes they'd have beaten Limerick in the semi. I'd have given them every chance against Galway too. We were well capable of beating Galway on both days this year and I'd have fancied us to have beaten Limerick in the final. The fact that we didn't get there has little to do with us losing a Munster final. Finish third in Munster and you're guaranteed to meet Kilkenny or Galway before reaching Croke Park.

Clareman wrote: »

I think we are really going to struggle next year, being honest we were going nowhere until Tipp hit the post. You have to win your home games, next year we have Cork (who have the beating of us every time we play) and Tipp who will have a new manager.

I'm a lot more optimistic to be honest. I think we learned this year that we are capable of beating anyone else. I think we had that capability for a while but failed to prove it. If we can build on our performances this year we should definitely be getting out of Munster. We have a bit of a fortress in Ennis and have our two toughest games there. Tipp and Waterford under new management. I wouldn't be surprised if Limerick have a bit of a hangover from their AI win also.

Gaatalk · 17-09-2018 12:40AM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Best way to get to an All-Ireland final is the route Cork took and had they held on for another couple of minutes they'd have beaten Limerick in the semi. I'd have given them every chance against Galway too. We were well capable of beating Galway on both days this year and I'd have fancied us to have beaten Limerick in the final. The fact that we didn't get there has little to do with us losing a Munster final. Finish third in Munster and you're guaranteed to meet Kilkenny or Galway before reaching Croke Park.

I'm a lot more optimistic to be honest. I think we learned this year that we are capable of beating anyone else. I think we had that capability for a while but failed to prove it. If we can build on our performances this year we should definitely be getting out of Munster. We have a bit of a fortress in Ennis and have our two toughest games there. Tipp and Waterford under new management. I wouldn't be surprised if Limerick have a bit of a hangover from their AI win also.

I agree with you dead donkey regarding optism for next year but on one condition that a new natural fullbackline and halfback line are found for the Clareteam over the next few weeks and months akin to what the Clare team had in the 90's. Possession is 9ths of the law and despite all the great team and individual scoring heroics this championship season by Clare success fell agonisingly short against Galway on both days by conceeding a big lead at the start and by conceeding too many scores to Cork in their comeback overtaking in the MunsterFinal. It was because of this in my view that Clare failed to win the munster title and ultimately the all ireland title. If Clare dont find backs from the current club championship then it will be the same story or worse next year. If Clare do find the backs that tightens up the Clare defence and somehow Clare's forwards continue to thrive more then Clare will take some beating. However Clare do need new backs and the search is urgently needed to get them b4 the new season starts in only 3 months time!
With all respect to Limerick Clare would probably have beaten Limerick in the all ireland final had Clare got to it as Clare would be familiar with Croke Park and Limerick while may have played better against Clare than did in the munster championship match would most likely have failed to close the margin in to win it. Limerick struggled to beat a very poor Galway side in the final (who had peaked in the dual thriller against Clare) after dominating the game for 70 of the 80 minutes game and just got over the line with momentum with Galway completely. It was as if luck just got limerick through after collapsing unlike 94 especially and 96 when they were beaten in similiar circumstances. Anyway all said if Clare dont get some good solid strong skilful new backs then will remain doomed particularly in the important big games.

Henno30 · 17-09-2018 10:29AM

The current Clare backs will have to get better. Diarmuid Ryan & Rory Hayes will be challenging for places, as will O'Brien & Dillon. But there won't be any major transformation. Marginal improvement is the most we're probably going to get.

The reality is that Clare's strength is as an attacking outfit and they will succeed or fail on the basis of how well their attack functions. The two big issues on that front are the ball winning ability in the half-forward line and the decline of Conor McGrath closer to goal.

Heaven and earth should be moved to persuade McGrath not to retire and to get him back to full fitness. He is one of the best goal scorers we've ever produced and if he retires in these circumstances it will be a disaster.

In the half-forward line, we will need to do a lot of experimentation. Kelly will never be a ball winner but Duggan can't be the only target. Conlon & SOD are good ball winners but it wouldn't make sense to move them out. So we need someone new but god knows who.

17togo · 17-09-2018 11:31AM

Here's a thought, now don't go mental just an idea I've had! There's no doubting Kellys skill, athletism and natural talent. But there is some doubting to his shot selection at times. Also no doubting we need a new center back...... You see where I'm going with this...... If you look at some of Kellys better performances over the last few years years even snippets of games where is has generally been poor but has spells where he is in the game. He comes deep and picks up ball around the half back line takes it on and delivers into the forwards. Good ball into the forwards is vital. Center back position isn't like when Seanie owned it, it's different now with the shorter passing. You might say Kelly can't win his own ball so he can't defend, well Cleary definitely couldn't defend either but at least I'd imagine Kelly has the ability to learn adequately, and he all ready has the skill to deliver quality ball into our forwards! He needs a defined role, nobody seems to know if he's a forward or a midfield player.

Discuss.....

Be gentle :-)

Keano · 17-09-2018 11:57AM

Not the first person I heard mention trying him out there.

17togo · 17-09-2018 12:08PM

Keano wrote:

Not the first person I heard mention trying him out there.

Very intelligent people also then!! :-D
But seriously, definitely think it's worth a shot for the league at least! There's nothing to lose by trying it, needed a new center back anyway.

Henno30 · 17-09-2018 12:16PM

It's insane.

Clareman · 17-09-2018 12:42PM

The biggest problems with Tony Kelly is that he doesn't like to mark someone and doesn't cope well when he is being closely marked, having him as an out and out back would be a disaster. Speaking of Kelly, I honestly don't know what position to play him in as he seems to be most interested in being a free man and going wherever he pleases, look at the last play against Galway this year he turned up behind the full back line.

17togo · 17-09-2018 01:55PM

Henno30 wrote:

It's insane.

Good argument, well made.

Clareman wrote:

The biggest problems with Tony Kelly is that he doesn't like to mark someone and doesn't cope well when he is being closely marked, having him as an out and out back would be a disaster. Speaking of Kelly, I honestly don't know what position to play him in as he seems to be most interested in being a free man and going wherever he pleases, look at the last play against Galway this year he turned up behind the full back line.

He's been tried everywhere in the forwards and midfield so would it not be worth trying him there even in the mickey mouse tournaments? Cleary wasn't able to defend either. And where he turned up at the end of the Galway match is quiet regularly where he turns up. Again, just a thought, nobody seems to know where he's best position is!

Sterling Archer · 17-09-2018 01:56PM

Any thoughts on the weekends football?

I was at the double header in Kilrush

2* minor annoyances, firstly the Game times, 5pm is very late for a game on Sunday especially for any student returning to college in Dub, Waterford etc
Not sure why they couldn't have been 1:15 and 3pm games

And While Kilrush did a good job accommodating the large corwd, I still have issues with the parking they do.. I know of 2 people boxed in for 5 -10 mins after deciding to leave the second game just on half time (a common occurrence during double headers) and I know it's not a big deal but in the event of someone having to leave extremely quickly those few minutes could be vital

Game wise, (I'm not reporter

)
Clondegad were comfortable against Kilmihil, looked like Kilmihil were playing the wrong kind of game, some great passages of play on both side, but the TK - Gary Brennan combo is hard to beat.

Cooraclare were the better team on the day, the game could have gotten away from the Ref as there was more and more cynical play, lots of off the ball stuff, I must have seen Pierce Lillis get hopped 6-7 times off the ball, some super scores given the swirling winds

Should be some good quarter finals

Pot A: KIB, Cratloe, Miltown, Ennistymon

Pot B: Cooraclare, Eire Óg, Clondegad, Corofin

Repeat pairings will be avoided as far as is possible

And the Senior B won't be a dull affair either
St Breckans, Doonbeg, kilmihil, Lissycasy (After they started so well) Losing Loser gets Relegated

Henno30 · 17-09-2018 02:10PM

Kelly was the second top scorer from play in the championship this year. His biggest weaknesses are tackling and winning contested ball. I don't see how you can put those two together and come up with an argument that he should be played at centre back.

Hidalgo · 17-09-2018 02:53PM

17togo wrote: »

Here's a thought, now don't go mental just an idea I've had! There's no doubting Kellys skill, athletism and natural talent. But there is some doubting to his shot selection at times. Also no doubting we need a new center back...... You see where I'm going with this...... If you look at some of Kellys better performances over the last few years years even snippets of games where is has generally been poor but has spells where he is in the game. He comes deep and picks up ball around the half back line takes it on and delivers into the forwards. Good ball into the forwards is vital. Center back position isn't like when Seanie owned it, it's different now with the shorter passing. You might say Kelly can't win his own ball so he can't defend, well Cleary definitely couldn't defend either but at least I'd imagine Kelly has the ability to learn adequately, and he all ready has the skill to deliver quality ball into our forwards! He needs a defined role, nobody seems to know if he's a forward or a midfield player.

Discuss.....

Be gentle :-)

He's simply too loose for me
Of course the great benefit of him at 6 is his long distance striking.

For me I'd place Galvin there before, a bit more disciplined than Kelly, great to get into pockets of space to take passes from fellow defenders under pressure & well capable of raiding up and picking off long range points.

Clareman · 17-09-2018 02:59PM

Cleary is out centre back now, no point in trying anyone else, he's out centre back, yes he was sh1te in a few games and his weaknesses were found out but in the 2 games against Galway he did a great job on Canning who is by far the best centre forward in the country.

17togo · 17-09-2018 03:12PM

Henno30 wrote:

Kelly was the second top scorer from play in the championship this year. His biggest weaknesses are tackling and winning contested ball. I don't see how you can put those two together and come up with an argument that he should be played at centre back.

I'd be interested to see which players hit the most wides also. Scoring I don't think will be an issue next year with players like shanagher, Ian galvin, Niall deasy getting a bit more playing time and if they can get Mcgrath back to a decent standard. Surely Kelly could be coached to a sufficient standard in tackling or positional play as his distribution could be brilliant. Again I'll point to Cleary as he's obviously been our most recent center back, you couldn't call his tackling up to standard either, all he had was height which he didn't even use to his advantage that often and his distribution was woeful.
I am not saying he would be a success at this, all I'm saying is it could be something to be looked at. We all know he's gone missing for large periods in games so getting him in a position to get on the ball more often is a priority, he seems to turn up in the back line quiet often!

17togo · 17-09-2018 03:14PM

Clareman wrote:

Cleary is out centre back now, no point in trying anyone else, he's out centre back, yes he was sh1te in a few games and his weaknesses were found out but in the 2 games against Galway he did a great job on Canning who is by far the best centre forward in the country.

Really?? No point in trying anyone else?! I struggle to see us being successful in the future with Cleary as our permanent center back!

Sterling Archer · 17-09-2018 03:19PM

Clareman wrote: »

Cleary is out centre back now, no point in trying anyone else, he's out centre back,

Isn't that what the early part of the league is for nowadays? Throw in new talent or players into new positions to see how they perform..

Hidalgo · 17-09-2018 04:22PM

Shane_ef wrote: »

Isn't that what the early part of the league is for nowadays? Throw in new talent or players into new positions to see how they perform..

The current management didn't really adhere to that theory in this yrs league. By and large we went with the same line out round after round.
The most obvious example was Waterford away, we had already qualified for knockouts and played close to our strongest 15.

LuckyGent88 · 17-09-2018 06:57PM

Eire Óg v ennistymon
KIB v Corofin
Cratloe v Cooraclare
Miltown v clonlegad

finbarrk · 17-09-2018 07:55PM

Kilmihill v St. Breckans
Doonbeg v Lissycasey

Henno30 · 17-09-2018 08:00PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

The current management didn't really adhere to that theory in this yrs league. By and large we went with the same line out round after round.
The most obvious example was Waterford away, we had already qualified for knockouts and played close to our strongest 15.

They said early on that they were using it as a dry run for the new Munster champ format. It was a risk strategy. That sort of a selection policy can be a killer for morale.

I can't muster up any enthusiasm for the alternatives at 6. We have plenty of lads who look lovely on the ball but none of them hold the position as well as Cleary does.

Hidalgo · 17-09-2018 08:21PM

Henno30 wrote: »

They said early on that they were using it as a dry run for the new Munster champ format. It was a risk strategy. That sort of a selection policy can be a killer for morale.

I can't muster up any enthusiasm for the alternatives at 6. We have plenty of lads who look lovely on the ball but none of them hold the position as well as Cleary does.

His striking for me is his biggest weakness for a centre back. On a few occasions he got onto loose ball around the middle, a high class centre back would have taken the shot but hes just not a natural enough striker of the ball.

That said, he offers a physical presence, something we're not overly blessed with

Fitz* · 17-09-2018 08:32PM

finbarrk wrote: »

Kilmihill v St. Breckans
Doonbeg v Lissycasey

Any idea when and where these are on?

EDIT: weekend of 29th & 30th but don't know where.

Sterling Archer · 17-09-2018 09:52PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

The current management didn't really adhere to that theory in this yrs league. By and large we went with the same line out round after round.
The most obvious example was Waterford away, we had already qualified for knockouts and played close to our strongest 15.

The Current management are not people I rate highly, and I'm still of the opinion we got as far as we did despite there best efforts.

Figerty · 17-09-2018 10:42PM

Hidalgo wrote: »

His striking for me is his biggest weakness for a centre back. On a few occasions he got onto loose ball around the middle, a high class centre back would have taken the shot but hes just not a natural enough striker of the ball.

That said, he offers a physical presence, something we're not overly blessed with

The problem for Clare at centre back,,is that a centre back needs a mid-field to stop the runners. The whole 6-8-9-11 diamond has to be in sync. At the moment we aren't in sync.

Gaatalk · 17-09-2018 11:02PM

FitzShane wrote: »

Any idea when and where these are on?

EDIT: weekend of 29th & 30th but don't know where.

Tbh and this is my opinion that a debate on clare county football championship is not toò interesting to many clare fans when at a time especially when the heartland of clare football i.e west clare is in danger of been wiped out of senior grade completely. Kilrush the biggest town in the west of the county does not play senior anymore and 31 years since won the senior championship something terribly wrong.
Kilkee another town closeby and they dont play senior anymore either. Now Doonbeg could loose their senior status. Miltown and Kilmhil had no senior teams either up to recently. Its a miracle at all that there is a senior championship with the heart of the west tradition which appears to be gone forever. I cant then understand why one would be remotely interested in the senior club football championship. Cooraclare also not far ahead of the relegation pack who will struggle to stay senior too next year and years after given their display last weekend. And here we are well into september and no closer to the final despite the intercounty championship been kicked around in both hurling and football and been condensed and finished off too early for nothing! It seems like winter since mid august! And no sign yet of a county final been played before October! Clubs are messing all the time.

Gaatalk · 17-09-2018 11:09PM

finbarrk wrote: »

Kilmihill v St. Breckans
Doonbeg v Lissycasey

Tbh and this is my opinion that a debate on clare county football championship is not toò interesting to many clare fans when at a time especially when the heartland of clare football i.e west clare is in danger of been wiped out of senior grade completely. Kilrush the biggest town in the west of the county does not play senior anymore and 31 years since won the senior championship something terribly wrong.
Kilkee another town closeby and they dont play senior anymore either. Now Doonbeg could loose their senior status. Miltown and Kilmhil had no senior teams either up to recently. Its a miracle at all that there is a senior championship with the heart of the west tradition which appears to be gone forever. I cant then understand why one would be remotely interested in the senior club football championship. Cooraclare also not far ahead of the relegation pack who will struggle to stay senior too next year and years after given their display last weekend. And here we are well into september and no closer to the final despite the intercounty championship been kicked around in both hurling and football and been condensed and finished off too early for nothing! It seems like winter since mid august! And no sign yet of a county final been played before October! Clubs are messing all the time.

Gaatalk · 17-09-2018 11:18PM

Shane_ef wrote: »

Any thoughts on the weekends football?

I was at the double header in Kilrush

2* minor annoyances, firstly the Game times, 5pm is very late for a game on Sunday especially for any student returning to college in Dub, Waterford etc
Not sure why they couldn't have been 1:15 and 3pm games

And While Kilrush did a good job accommodating the large corwd, I still have issues with the parking they do.. I know of 2 people boxed in for 5 -10 mins after deciding to leave the second game just on half time (a common occurrence during double headers) and I know it's not a big deal but in the event of someone having to leave extremely quickly those few minutes could be vital

Game wise, (I'm not reporter )
Clondegad were comfortable against Kilmihil, looked like Kilmihil were playing the wrong kind of game, some great passages of play on both side, but the TK - Gary Brennan combo is hard to beat.

Cooraclare were the better team on the day, the game could have gotten away from the Ref as there was more and more cynical play, lots of off the ball stuff, I must have seen Pierce Lillis get hopped 6-7 times off the ball, some super scores given the swirling winds

Should be some good quarter finals

Pot A: KIB, Cratloe, Miltown, Ennistymon

Pot B: Cooraclare, Eire Óg, Clondegad, Corofin

Repeat pairings will be avoided as far as is possible

And the Senior B won't be a dull affair either
St Breckans, Doonbeg, kilmihil, Lissycasy (After they started

I think general clare fans have stopped going yo clare club senior football matches with many years or following it even in the media for obvious reasons. Most people dont recall weekend games or remember last years champions.Tbh and this is my opinion that a debate on clare county football championship is not toò interesting to many clare fans when at a time especially when the heartland of clare football i.e west clare is in danger of been wiped out of senior grade completely. Kilrush the biggest town in the west of the county does not play senior anymore and 31 years since won the senior championship something terribly wrong.
Kilkee another town closeby and they dont play senior anymore either. Now Doonbeg could loose their senior status. Miltown and Kilmhil had no senior teams either up to recently. Its a miracle at all that there is a senior championship with the heart of the west tradition which appears to be gone forever. I cant then understand why one would be remotely interested in the senior club football championship. Cooraclare also not far ahead of the relegation pack who will struggle to stay senior too next year and years after given their display last weekend. And here we are well into september and no closer to the final despite the intercounty championship been kicked around in both hurling and football and been condensed and finished off too early for nothing! It seems like winter since mid august! And no sign yet of a county final been played before October! Clubs are messing all the time and dragging it out.

Gaatalk · 17-09-2018 11:31PM

Henno30 wrote: »

The current Clare backs will have to get better. Diarmuid Ryan & Rory Hayes will be challenging for places, as will O'Brien & Dillon. But there won't be any major transformation. Marginal improvement is the most we're probably going to get.

The reality is that Clare's strength is as an attacking outfit and they will succeed or fail on the basis of how well their attack functions. The two big issues on that front are the ball winning ability in the half-forward line and the decline of Conor McGrath closer to goal.

Heaven and earth should be moved to persuade McGrath not to retire and to get him back to full fitness. He is one of the best goal scorers we've ever produced and if he retires in these circumstances it will be a disaster.

In the half-forward line, we will need to do a lot of experimentation. Kelly will never be a ball winner but Duggan can't be the only target. Conlon & SOD are good ball winners but it wouldn't make sense to move them out. So we need someone new but god knows who.

The 4 players you referred to is there a gòod chance some or all of them do you think will make the clare team. It must be done new backs have to be found which can only improve team morale and make it a bit easier for the forwards to then play outwards rather than within and throw the shackles. If Clare had any solid half backline or fullbback line this summer gone then Clare undoubtely may have won at least Munster but possibly the all ireland given the way limericks backline almost collapsed and lost the final in the last 10 mins to last years champions in a very very poor galway team who had peaked or were stretched by Clare in the semifinal.
No new backs next year equals no success.
A competitive defence next year and Clare could take silverware.
I fear though that this setup wont overhaul the defence section of the team and may then after another attempt will probably resign at end of the 3 years in charge. I hope I am wrong!

Clare GAA discussion thread

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