92 year old woman left sitting on a chair in A&E for over a day

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 10-09-2018 11:59AM #1

!A 92-year-old woman was left sitting on a chair in a Dublin A&E facility, her family have revealed.
Gladys Cummins visited the A&E department of the Mater Hospital on Monday when she was feeling unwell.
Her daughter Dee Cummins was with her, as she was moved constantly from one chair to another while waiting for over a day in the department to see a doctor."

What on earth has gone wrong in this country? There is a heartbreaking photograph accompanying this article of the poor woman, slumped ill and weak, in a chair in the A&E Department.

ebbsy · 10-09-2018 12:00PM

But yet, some of our elected gob****es will concentrate on the Trump visit instead.

CeilingFly · 10-09-2018 12:04PM

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

And then whine to the fickle hysterical media who do a sensationalist piece leaving out a lot of facts so that some fools can get all hysterical.

Never ever ever fully believe the sh1te written in hysterical sensationalist media - ESPECIALLY the Indo.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 10-09-2018 12:06PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

How do you know she had a minor illness. I have often had to take elderly parents to hospital, or call an ambulance, and they have been left on trollies for hours before eventually being admitted and given the treatment they needed.
Her mother is now in a hospital ward so obviously did need to be in hospital.

dudara · 10-09-2018 12:06PM

It’s really bad that an elderly lady was left so long, but it’s hard to comment without knowing more of the specifics. When did she enter, when was she triaged etc.

Unfortunately, despite her years, she may have been the least sick person there.

Hammer89 · 10-09-2018 12:07PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

What constitutes a minor illness if you're 92

CeilingFly · 10-09-2018 12:08PM

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

How do you know she had a minor illness.

Triage system places you in a priority system. She was not regarded as priority.

This I reckon was a stunt.

verycool · 10-09-2018 12:10PM

This is knee jerk tabloid stuff all right.

Shirked responsibility so it must be the "system" that's wrong.

10-09-2018 12:10PM

As dudara said, it's hard to comment without knowing the details. One comment however is that ideally nobody should be waiting that long! A few hours max

10-09-2018 12:12PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

And then whine to the fickle hysterical media who do a sensationalist piece leaving out a lot of facts so that some fools can get all hysterical.

Never ever ever fully believe the sh1te written in hysterical sensationalist media - ESPECIALLY the Indo.

Get lost with your personal responsibility guff. The fact of the matter is simply that gubbermint blah blah blah, homeless yada yada, that shower-in-the-dail, it's a disgrace, this country's a joke, rabble rabble entitled. We should look after our own. Oh and bankers. Don't forget bankers.

10-09-2018 12:13PM

dudara wrote: »

but it’s hard to comment without knowing more of the specifics.

It's really not for most people. Keyboard smash!

Turtwig · 10-09-2018 12:15PM

Nobody should be waiting that long. However, this outrage and use of age in headlines is disturbing. Worse yet is people "diagnosing" others in the A&Es "Saw one lady who didn't look like there was much wrong with her".

People should be - and are - triaged according to perceived medical need. Sometimes that triage will be wrong and the priority of a patient's need won't be recognised immediately but most of the time it works as it should.

The waiting times need to be addressed, but as nobody in Ireland wants to pay for basically anything then I can't see any resolution there either. Health, Prison Service, Water are all in danger of collapsing.

Most annoying bit is how opposition political parties will use this woman as a stick to beat the current goverment with rather than recognise it was actually decades of incompetence and inaction by everyone that led us here and there isn't going to be short term solution.

10-09-2018 12:22PM

I think people would be happy to pay, and we already do. I think the issue is we don't think throwing more money at the problem will have much or any effect

Shenshen · 10-09-2018 12:42PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think people would be happy to pay, and we already do. I think the issue is we don't think throwing more money at the problem will have much or any effect

I agree to some extend, I think a good amount of re-structuring is required.
People presenting to A&E for not feeling well is not scaleable - you couldn't build A&Es big enough to cope with that. People need to use their GPs more, and I think GPs generally should be better equipped to deal with more issues directly.

Turtwig · 10-09-2018 12:49PM

bluewolf wrote: »

I think people would be happy to pay, and we already do. I think the issue is we don't think throwing more money at the problem will have much or any effect

I partially agree but I think the level of restructuring required few want to pay for. Unfortunately to fix this mess it's gonna be a fair assumption for such a large problem any step you take to resolve it will invariably have some degree of money wasted. The trouble with it being healthcare is one mistake perceived by the public will drastically alter all future spending plans.

Plus, call me cynical, but I don't believe we're capable of having a level head discussion to plan something so intricately complex as a health system. Even more so, when it's a solution who's time span is longer than any potential government.

SEPT 23 1989 · 10-09-2018 12:49PM

i would want to be literally dying before I would set foot in Tallaght A & E such is the carry on I have witnessed in there

Sonics2k · 10-09-2018 12:56PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

And then whine to the fickle hysterical media who do a sensationalist piece leaving out a lot of facts so that some fools can get all hysterical.

Never ever ever fully believe the sh1te written in hysterical sensationalist media - ESPECIALLY the Indo.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but when it comes down to it a person shouldn't be left sitting in AE, especially at that age for 25 hours.

At 92 years old even a flu or cold could be fatal in a short amount of time.

Sure, if she was 28 and had been complaining about a sore throat then a GP would be the place to go, but again, it's a 92 year old.

Shenshen · 10-09-2018 12:57PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but when it comes down to it a person shouldn't be left sitting in AE, especially at that age for 25 hours.

At 92 years old even a flu or cold could be fatal in a short amount of time.

Sure, if she was 28 and had been complaining about a sore throat then a GP would be the place to go, but again, it's a 92 year old.

I'm sorry, but I don't quite follow - why should a 92 year old not go see a GP?

conorhal · 10-09-2018 01:00PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I agree to some extend, I think a good amount of re-structuring is required.
People presenting to A&E for not feeling well is not scaleable - you couldn't build A&Es big enough to cope with that. People need to use their GPs more, and I think GPs generally should be better equipped to deal with more issues directly.

Since there's no link to an article I can only guess, but given the length of time waiting I'm guessing it was over the weekend when A&E is chock-a-block.
Good luck getting your GP to see you on a Friday night or Sunday morning!
In fact, good luck getting an appointment within 2-5 working days....

Anybody that imagines GP's can be a stop-gap for A&E's are dreaming.
Firstly we don't produce enough of them, the ones we do leave (and I'd have plenty of suggestions on how to remedy both if these factors but that's a different thread) and far to many that stay (in my experience) will give you 15 minutes of half their attention before writing a script or consultation letter. Far too few seem to have any diagnostic ability, instead seeing themselves a 60 euro gatekeepers for consultants.

Shenshen · 10-09-2018 01:06PM

conorhal wrote: »

Since there's no link to an article I can only guess, but given the length of time waiting I'm guessing it was over the weekend when A&E is chock-a-block.
Good luck getting your GP to see you on a Friday night or Sunday morning!
In fact, good luck getting an appointment within 2-5 working days....

Anybody that imagines GP's can be a stop-gap for A&E's are dreaming.
Firstly we don't produce enough of them, the ones we do leave (and I'd have plenty of suggestions on how to remedy both if these factors but that's a different thread) and far to many that stay (in my experience) will give you 15 minutes of half their attention before writing a script or consultation letter. Far too few seem to have any diagnostic ability, instead seeing themselves a 60 euro gatekeepers for consultants.

Well, last time I needed one on a Saturday (having narrowly avoided a collision with an oncoming car on my side of the road on my bike by strategically navigating it into a wall and in the process spraining my hand, my shoulder and obtaining some nasty grazes), I rang up South Doc who saw me within an hour.
Similar situation a few years back when the husband had a bad case of kidney stones at 3am Sunday night.

As for the GPs not being up to scratch on treating patients, I would completely agree with you. And that's why part of my post was about making sure they have the training, competency and equipment to deal with patients, rather than just take blood pressure and issue prescriptions. I'm overall rather shocked at the state of GPs in this country, and I do think the lack of qualification there is a massive contributing factor to the state of A&Es.

10-09-2018 01:15PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

A&E - ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY - this was just someone who felt a little unwell and obviously when seen by the triage was deemed not a priority.

Her daughter needs to wake up and stop clogging up ACCIDENT and EMERGENCY departments for minor illness

And then whine to the fickle hysterical media who do a sensationalist piece leaving out a lot of facts so that some fools can get all hysterical.

Never ever ever fully believe the sh1te written in hysterical sensationalist media - ESPECIALLY the Indo.

Actually that's not necessarily the case.

We don't know the details, but she may well have been seen and treated and still left on a chair.

My mother is currently in A&E 26 hours.

The details are she had to be brought to hospital because she almost collapsed in pain at home and had been vomiting since the previous day. She was immediately assessed and sent for xray. Following the xray they transferred her to another hospital for a scan. She had to go through A&E in the other hospital. She had her scan almost immediately and has been fasting since yesterday morning (she is a type 1 diabetic). However, she spent most of yesterday in a chair on various drips. She has been moved to a trolley but spend the night on it and she is still there - in a corridor. She is awaiting surgery and a bed.

It's not about her priority (I work in healthcare, I understand how triage works) it's that they literally and physically have nowhere to put her.

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 01:19PM

Hammer89 wrote: »

What constitutes a minor illness if you're 92

all the minor ones as determined by the professional triage staff

Berserker · 10-09-2018 02:09PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Why did her daughter not take her to her local GP?

Bang on. Given the fact that she was left in A&E for that length of time, it's clear that it was not an emergency.

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

How do you know she had a minor illness.

Do you know how A&E works?

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but when it comes down to it a person shouldn't be left sitting in AE, especially at that age for 25 hours.

And where were they supposed to put her or do with her?

Sonics2k wrote: »

At 92 years old even a flu or cold could be fatal in a short amount of time.

Correct but she wasn't a high risk patient at any point during the 25 hour period. She would have been attended to if that was the case.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 10-09-2018 02:44PM

Yes I know very well how A&E works. I've been there many times with elderly parents. On several occasions they were extremely ill but were still left on trolleys for hours and hours.

It's not always that easy to get an ill, very elderly and not very mobile patient to a GP even if you were lucky enough to get an appointment. Sometimes your only option is to call an ambulance as it's just not possible to get them into a car and then out of the car and into the surgery.

If GPs still did house calls it would be a different matter.

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 10-09-2018 02:46PM

Berserker wrote: »

Bang on. Given the fact that she was left in A&E for that length of time, it's clear that it was not an emergency.

Do you know how A&E works?

And where were they supposed to put her or do with her?

Correct but she wasn't a high risk patient at any point during the 25 hour period. She would have been attended to if that was the case.

Well that's really the point. How have we come to have a health system where the only option for hospitals is to leave elderly and ill people in chairs for 25 hours?

lawred2 · 10-09-2018 02:47PM

Pedro Fluffy Apprentice wrote: »

Well that's really the point. How have we come to have a health system where the only option for hospitals is to leave elderly and ill people in chairs for 25 hours?

they probably should have sent her home

c68zapdsm5i1ru · 10-09-2018 02:49PM

lawred2 wrote: »

they probably should have sent her home

But it turned out that she did need to be hospitalised, but it took 25 hours to get her out of a chair and into a bed.

We either need a better system where elderly and infirm people can be visited at home by GPs, or A&E Depts and hospitals that are better resourced.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-09-2018 02:53PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Get lost with your personal responsibility guff. The fact of the matter is simply that gubbermint blah blah blah, homeless yada yada, that shower-in-the-dail, it's a disgrace, this country's a joke, rabble rabble entitled. We should look after our own. Oh and bankers. Don't forget bankers.

So the 92 year old should have cured herself? A bit of personal responsibility and she’d have been seen sooner?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-09-2018 02:54PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I agree to some extend, I think a good amount of re-structuring is required.
People presenting to A&E for not feeling well is not scaleable - you couldn't build A&Es big enough to cope with that. People need to use their GPs more, and I think GPs generally should be better equipped to deal with more issues directly.

They used to be. It was called a doctors surgery for a reason. Now they are mere conduits to a hospital or consultants so visiting them in an emergency is not that useful.

TallGlass · 10-09-2018 02:54PM

Had to do it once and seemingly regular my advise after my day and a half chair experience at least purchase some ****ing decent chairs that are fit for the purpose to hold people for a day and a half.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-09-2018 02:55PM

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I don't quite follow - why should a 92 year old not go see a GP?

Because all he’s going to do is send her to hospital.

92 year old woman left sitting on a chair in A&E for over a day

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