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Diesel renaissance - says VW!
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Yes but NOx produced by burning carbon based fuels are rumoured to be carcinogens, and definitely cause respiratory disease. The Ozone layer depletion was caused by CFCs, and has ceased to be an issue since the late 90's . The AGU study showed it was repairing itself and should be repaired to pre 1980's levels by the middle of this century.
If (theoretically) the only benefit of EV was to move pollution from city roads to beside power stations then for the respiratory reasons alone it is worth it.
Yeah fully agree ,nox emissions form cars is unacceptable really and I hope we move away from it and I have a diesel
I'm not sure the ozone is a non issue but that's for another thread 
. Like brownfinger I'd have an ev in the morning but at the moment they don't suit me and Im not sure moving everyone to Ev Fixes our problems, like going petrol to diesel it just moves the goal posts.
I'd like to see if the hydrogen model toyota are invested in is any better , from the brief look at i saw years ago it seemed so but who knows the way they all fiddle with these figures :rolleyes:0 -
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Yeah fully agree ,nox emissions form cars is unacceptable really and I hope we move away from it and I have a diesel I'm not sure the ozone is a non issue but that's for another thread . Like brownfinger I'd have an ev in the morning but at the moment they don't suit me and Im not sure moving everyone to Ev Fixes our problems, like going petrol to diesel it just moves the goal posts.
I'd like to see if the hydrogen model toyota are invested in is any better , from the brief look at i saw years ago it seemed so but who knows the way they all fiddle with these figures :rolleyes:
Hydrogen is a false dawn, taking a "well to wheel" analysis you have to convert water to hydrogen, then compress the hydrogen an/or freeze it to many hundreds of degrees below 0, then convert hydrogen to water and energy to use in the fuel cell.
It's a net energy cost and energy efficiency of below 30%. It seems great with no tailpipe emissions but do even an hour of research and you'll see it's not the answer.
I'm no EVangelist, I have an EV and I'm going to sell it as it's not saving me enough to justify the inconvenienceDeleted User wrote: »Polution is not only at the power supply station. I read that it would be more than eight years of driving E-Class before the car would catch up with the polution caused by a Tesla. Which means the Tesla needs to last at least 10 years to start to be clean.
I'd like to see some facts around that as it sounds like some propaganda to me.0 -
+1Alanstrainor wrote: »Sources for that please? I find it hard to believe that the E class is carbon neutral in it's construction either.
Sounds like something written by the head of cheat devices in VW to be honest
:p:pac: 0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Polution is not only at the power supply station. I read that it would be more than eight years of driving E-Class before the car would catch up with the polution caused by a Tesla. Which means the Tesla needs to last at least 10 years to start to be clean.
Please, please provide a source for this :-)+1
Sounds like something written by the head of cheat devices in VW to be honest
Even the head of VW couldn't keep a straight face coming out with that :-)0 -
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Alanstrainor wrote: »Sources for that please? I find it hard to believe that the E class is carbon neutral in it's construction either.
I don't remember the article saying E Class is carbon neutral
Anyhow, here it is:
https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-myth-of-a-clean-electric-car/a-398567080 -
I suppose if petrol is the answer we will all run out and buy V8 sedans now?
It doesn't matter if someone is driving diesel or petrol or lpg or CNG or turf lol it's all the same, fossil fuel non renewable. Pollutant.
If you're not driving a BEV powered by domestic/commercial PV or other renewable energy, or hydrogen produced on site by solar powered electrolysis then you are part of the problem.
My EV is powered by predominantly renewable energy (the 80 odd percent I charge at work is all renewables) and the 20% on the ecars grid is subject to grid mix.
Sorry for the long rant but I hate this media bias of picking one fossil fuel over the other, they are both bad for the environment as each other, in slightly different ways.
The argument is more complicated than fossil is bad and EV's are good therefore everyone buy EV.
The reality is it will be a slow transition not an overnight switchover.
If people move from diesel to petrol, to hybrid, to plugin-hybrid, to BEV then thats a good thing.... its moving in the right direction.
The reality is everyone cant buy an EV because the supply and choice isn't there and wont be for many years to come.
Fast forward to 2022 we will have the following long range BEV's....
Tesla S, X, 3
Hyundai Kona
Kia Niro
Leaf 60kWh
Ioniq (maybe)
VW ID range
Jag iPace
BMW (nothing firm announced but presumably something)
Merc EQ range
Apart from Leaf and Ioniq most of those are €80k+ with the Hyundai and Kia at ~€40k. That list wont bring us to mass EV adoption because its too short a list and too expensive for the majority.
In the meantime we have to live with the reality that fossil fuel is required so I'm happy to see diesel down and petrol up... we just need to get more of them to hybrid and PHEV (because you can actually buy them) as they are stepping stones that will make significant improvements to local emissions until its cheap to deliver long range BEV's for <€30kI'm no EVangelist, I have an EV and I'm going to sell it as it's not saving me enough to justify the inconvenience
What are you going to buy then? A 520d?
I guess you are going back to being "part of the problem" as you put it?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I don't remember the article saying E Class is carbon neutral
Anyhow, here it is:
https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-myth-of-a-clean-electric-car/a-39856708
Jesus I have seen better journalism in the Sun newspaper....
Not a shred of truth to anything in that article.
Even took a pop at Solar PV and wind power????0 -
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Don't know what I will get yet but I'm afraid there's no EV out there right now that offers the same convenience as ICE with similar cost per month.
What are you going to buy then? A 520d?
I guess you are going back to being "part of the problem" as you put it?
I will be part of the problem indeed, until the product gets better and cheaper. And I'm not talking about cheaper new vs new, I'm talking cheaper used vs used too. Comparing a new EV with a new ICE is madness as the subset of people who buy new EVs are doing so for a cost saving basis and would normally buy older ICE cars.
I've got the hankering at the moment for another e61 535d. I even drove her who must be obeyed's prius last night and it was so nice to not have to think about range and charging.
There are people at my job who have L40 and L24, they charge once or twice per week. For people like that EV is fine as there's no range concerns. I'm doing hundreds of km per day, 200+ these days sometimes, and I'm sick of having to check where I'm going to be when I need to charge. And is it working. And is it (the only one charger per site) in use. Is it being hogged by a local for the free juice. etc etc.
I'm done. I'm going to write my own thread documenting my experience and cost benefit analysis with my old L24, my Ioniq and whatever diesel/hybrid replaces it. Cents per mile cost and inconvenience cost. It p1sses me off every morning getting into my Ioniq now because it just represents hassle.
The l24 while it was crap having 100km range and then 90km for each subsequent charge, at least it saved me money.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I don't remember the article saying E Class is carbon neutral
Anyhow, here it is:
https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-the-myth-of-a-clean-electric-car/a-39856708
You were making a point about the damage to the environment of the tesla. I presume this means damage caused during it's construction, given that it doesn't emit any emissions. And my counter point simply being that a E class does have a carbon cost in it's construction also.
That article doesn't seem to have any references for his point about the E-Class anyway... I'd be sceptical.0 -
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