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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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    #2672
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,412 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    What has been described in the essay and detailed in the Woodward book is basically a coup d'etat. A non-traditional one if you like, but a coup all the same.

    In that regard, it doesn't matter that Trump is a mentally unbalanced man-child and ignorant unworldly simpleton, he was elected to office and the constitutional duties and responsibilities of that office are very clear. The fact that staff are manipulating his information flow and intervening in his decisions so they become something other than his intent (for however long his intent lasts) is essentially a subversion of the office.

    The fact this may have been done in history with other presidents, for reason of mental or physical infirmity and never disclosed or prosecuted is irrelevant, whats going on now is a violation of the constitution and/or law and I guarantee you that some more noble people in Congress and the FBI are agonising whether to intervene on that basis.

    The White House is down folks.

    The same would have happened, to a lesser degree, in a Bernie Sanders Presidency, the status quo must be preserved.


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    #2673
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,412 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    And yet, his supporters love him. The whole thing is bonkers. He is so obviously unfit for the job and even his own staff think so. But some people look at this guy and think "This guy's good". It's baffling.

    He just had to be better than the opposition. Many of those who voted for him know the Democrats despise them as hicks, horn handed plebs etc.

    They don't hide it, who knows why but they revel in it, even though they are tearing in to largely the Democrat base for decades.

    For all his problems he offers hope where the rest just off more of the same.

    One legacy of his will be African American employment at its highest in decades, earnings per hour, highest on record, relatively speaking.

    What Dem or Republican would have done that, no one from Sanders to Clinton to Cortez, Rand Paul to Romeny.

    Yeah the man is a ****nut but all he did was appeal to people that were ignored for decades.

    That remains a bridge too far for the Democrats and as it gets more middle class, and by God, as a party it now makes the Tories look working class, this alienation will grow.

    Trump is still in with a great chance of reelection, none of it down to his work, his opponents carried him home the last time and he knew enough to get them to do that.


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    #2674
    The Phantom Jipper
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    These people claim to be keeping the ship afloat while Trump is in office, but when will their patriotism extend beyond making self-serving and snarky off the record comments in the media? Presumably they'll come out en masse during the 2020 campaign in support of the Democrat candidate? I suspect not for some reason.


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    #2675
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Was reading a thread on twitter about the NYT anonymous op ed. It contains an unusual word "lodestar". This guy searched through speeches by members of the Trump administration to see if any use it. Only one person has used the word previously multiple times. Den den deeeeen Mike Pence.


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    #2676
    JohnFalstaff
    Registered Users Posts: 874 ✭✭✭JohnFalstaff


    20Cent wrote: »
    Was reading a thread on twitter about the NYT anonymous op ed. It contains an unusual word "lodestar". This guy searched through speeches by members of the Trump administration to see if any use it. Only one person has used the word previously multiple times. Den den deeeeen Mike Pence.

    Or, more likely, the person who writes Mike Pence's speeches.


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    #2677
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    JohnFalstaff wrote: »
    Or, more likely, the person who writes Mike Pence's speeches.

    Could be, earliest use of it by Pence he could find was 2001. He's used it in interviews and on panels as well.


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    #2678
    The Phantom Jipper
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭The Phantom Jipper


    20Cent wrote: »
    Could be, earliest use of it by Pence he could find was 2001. He's used it in interviews and on panels as well.

    I read somewhere that when providing anonymous quotes to the media, some aides have been known to adopt the verbal tics and the vocabulary of others to make it appear that it's them providing the quotes. Their craftiness knows no bounds!


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    #2679
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,557 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    This is mad. A senior official in the white house has published an op-ed in the New York Times. He/she is anonymous but the gist of it is that Trump is a thick cnut and that they're preventing his worst excesses.

    If Trump wasn't paranoid enough after the Woodward revelations, he sure will now.

    Looking at the post by 20cent about the word lodestar, at its use by a member of the Admin, and at Dons statement about the NYT story, I see Don first slammed the unnamed source in his Admin then went on to say his Admin team were great, its possible he knows who the Op/Ed author is. As the author seems to know a lot about the internal strife and free to make it public safely, it might be an indirect pointer to some-one Don can't fire even if he wanted to.


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    #2680
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,021 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Its probably a Pence staffer.

    The leaker has written this for purely for Self-Glorification. He doesn't have the interest of the president or the country at heart as the up -coming witch hunt will probably make a lot of people's jobs even harder. There is nothing else to be gained whatsoever by having this published.

    When he comes forward its going to be amazing watching the resistance buying him a house though.


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    #2681
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,258 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    The Phantom Jipper wrote: »
    These people claim to be keeping the ship afloat while Trump is in office, but when will their patriotism extend beyond making self-serving and snarky off the record comments in the media? Presumably they'll come out en masse during the 2020 campaign in support of the Democrat candidate? I suspect not for some reason.

    Of course not. They're Republicans, and a good example of the desire to keep a Republican in office is currently one of the lead headlines on the news websites: His name is Kavanaugh. RBG may be determined, but she's also old, and no matter how long she may want to hold on, there's a non-negligible chance she'll need replacing in the next two or six years. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, and as long as the important Presidential stuff like nominating judges can still be controlled by the right people, there is no reason at all for them to want to support a Democrat. Trump will be out of office long before the ramifications of Presidential control wear off.
    The leaker has written this for purely for Self-Glorification. He doesn't have the interest of the president or the country at heart as the up -coming witch hunt will probably make a lot of people's jobs even harder. There is nothing else to be gained whatsoever by having this published

    It's a good question I haven't seen many people tackle. I'm sure the guy didn't write it because he got paid by the word. Why release this Op-Ed, and what's his or her end goal?


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    #2682
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Danzy wrote: »
    He just had to be better than the opposition. Many of those who voted for him know the Democrats despise them as hicks, horn handed plebs etc.

    Well, there's the rub. He absolutely is not better than the opposition. He's an ignorant bull in a china shop who doesn't consider his words or his actions. And right now we're learning that he basically rants and raves in the WH and his staff cushion the world from his ineptitude and wild flailing around.
    This is established fact and can't be argued.
    Hillary Clinton is a smart, capable, accomplished, seasoned politician and had she been President, the economy would have carried on just the same as now, minus an insanely galloping deficit due to an insane tax cut and minus a looming trade war that damages the US economy.
    Clinton was smeared and discredited in a massive, unfounded and unfair campaigned and still remains very much not locked up.
    The hate campaign against her would have done Joseph Göbbels proud.
    Trump just pandered to angry red necks and racists that don't have the reasoning capacity of a 5 year old and will simply believe him verbatim.

    https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/011/129/RT.jpg


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    #2683
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote:
    Well, there's the rub. He absolutely is not better than the opposition. He's an ignorant bull in a china shop who doesn't consider his words or his actions. And right now we're learning that he basically rants and raves in the WH and his staff cushion the world from his ineptitude and wild flailing around. This is established fact and can't be argued. Hillary Clinton is a smart, capable, accomplished, seasoned politician and had she been President, the economy would have carried on just the same as now, minus an insanely galloping deficit due to an insane tax cut and minus a looming trade war that damages the US economy. Clinton was smeared and discredited in a massive, unfounded and unfair campaigned and still remains very much not locked up. The hate campaign against her would have done Joseph Göbbels proud. Trump just pandered to angry red necks and racists that don't have the reasoning capacity of a 5 year old and will simply believe him verbatim.


    Both almost as bad as each other, American politics is in a lot of trouble, roll on the train wreck


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    #2684
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    20Cent wrote: »
    Was reading a thread on twitter about the NYT anonymous op ed. It contains an unusual word "lodestar". This guy searched through speeches by members of the Trump administration to see if any use it. Only one person has used the word previously multiple times. Den den deeeeen Mike Pence.

    Yeah, was watching Kimmel earlier and he showed clips of Pence using it a few times.




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    #2685
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,878 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    dr.fuzzenstein wrote:
    Well, there's the rub. He absolutely is not better than the opposition. He's an ignorant bull in a china shop who doesn't consider his words or his actions. And right now we're learning that he basically rants and raves in the WH and his staff cushion the world from his ineptitude and wild flailing around. This is established fact and can't be argued. Hillary Clinton is a smart, capable, accomplished, seasoned politician and had she been President, the economy would have carried on just the same as now, minus an insanely galloping deficit due to an insane tax cut and minus a looming trade war that damages the US economy. Clinton was smeared and discredited in a massive, unfounded and unfair campaigned and still remains very much not locked up. The hate campaign against her would have done Joseph Göbbels proud. Trump just pandered to angry red necks and racists that don't have the reasoning capacity of a 5 year old and will simply believe him verbatim.


    Both almost as bad as each other, American politics is in a lot of trouble, roll on the train wreck
    "Both sides"?

    Trump is not even in charge of his own white house and has suffered a soft coup not even two years in. Not even his own staffers respect him at this point.

    There is no comparison.

    I imagine the article was written to justify themselves. The staffer knows they are part of a train wreck and don't want to be thought of badly by the public. Still seems the cowards way out. The US needs a proper president as it is the only way to completely limit the damage.


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    #2686
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,557 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Christy42 wrote: »
    "Both sides"?

    Trump is not even in charge of his own white house and has suffered a soft coup not even two years in. Not even his own staffers respect him at this point.

    There is no comparison.

    I imagine the article was written to justify themselves. The staffer knows they are part of a train wreck and don't want to be thought of badly by the public. Still seems the cowards way out. The US needs a proper president as it is the only way to completely limit the damage.

    Something along the lines of "people will accuse us/me of betrayal or treason but we acted patriotically and not out of self interest. History will tell the truth of what we/I did". I don't think that will be accepted by the parties or the committed Trump campers.


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    #2687
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Well, there's the rub. He absolutely is not better than the opposition. He's an ignorant bull in a china shop who doesn't consider his words or his actions. And right now we're learning that he basically rants and raves in the WH and his staff cushion the world from his ineptitude and wild flailing around.
    This is established fact and can't be argued.
    Hillary Clinton is a smart, capable, accomplished, seasoned politician and had she been President, the economy would have carried on just the same as now, minus an insanely galloping deficit due to an insane tax cut and minus a looming trade war that damages the US economy.
    Clinton was smeared and discredited in a massive, unfounded and unfair campaigned and still remains very much not locked up.
    The hate campaign against her would have done Joseph Göbbels proud.
    Trump just pandered to angry red necks and racists that don't have the reasoning capacity of a 5 year old and will simply believe him verbatim.

    https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/011/129/RT.jpg

    Clinton would probably be at war with a dozen countries by now. She likes killing people.

    Certainly Syria would be a utter disaster.

    That said trump is too erratic to be president. I’d be inclined to agree with impeachment at this stage. The next democratic nominee has a chance of being anti war.


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    #2688
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It's a good question I haven't seen many people tackle. I'm sure the guy didn't write it because he got paid by the word. Why release this Op-Ed, and what's his or her end goal?

    Possibly (in tandem with Woodward's book) to taunt Trump so that he explodes in a rage that cannot be contained, tries to fire the entire White House etc.,so that they have a reason to install Pence instead. Trump is paranoid already, the book and the oped are just stoking it now showing him that yes, absolutely everyone conspires against him.


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    #2689
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Clinton would probably be at war with a dozen countries by now. She likes killing people.

    Certainly Syria would be a utter disaster.

    That said trump is too erratic to be president. I’d be inclined to agree with impeachment at this stage. The next democratic nominee has a chance of being anti war.

    Syria's just been a garden party due to Trump. Got it.

    Trump was too erratic from the beginning. Hilary'd have been predictable and probably fairly boring, but that election was stolen and is over now.

    No such thing as a truly anti-war politician in the US. Too much money in it. The last Democratic president who was basically anti-war, was Carter, and he was reviled for it and one of the worst presidents ever, if nothing else he paved the way for Reagan.


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    #2690
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    strandroad wrote: »
    Possibly (in tandem with Woodward's book) to taunt Trump so that he explodes in a rage that cannot be contained, tries to fire the entire White House etc.,so that they have a reason to install Pence instead. Trump is paranoid already, the book and the oped are just stoking it now showing him that yes, absolutely everyone conspires against him.

    They can’t just install pence. Needs an impeachment.


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    #2691
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Syria's just been a garden party due to Trump. Got it.

    Trump was too erratic from the beginning. Hilary'd have been predictable and probably fairly boring, but that election was stolen and is over now.

    No such thing as a truly anti-war politician in the US. Too much money in it. The last Democratic president who was basically anti-war, was Carter, and he was reviled for it and one of the worst presidents ever, if nothing else he paved the way for Reagan.

    Syria is better than it was.

    Sanders could be one. Tulsi Gaddard another. The new rising stars of the Democratic Party could be other options.

    You are probably right that theres not much hope in office though.


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    #2692
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Syria is better than it was.

    Sanders could be one. Tulsi Gaddard another. The new rising stars of the Democratic Party could be other options.

    You are probably right that theres no much hope in office though.

    im not convinced sanders will go for it again


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    #2693
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,054 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Only catching up on the latest now, ha Trump is well and truly triggered over that op ed piece :)

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2694
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    They can’t just install pence. Needs an impeachment.

    If they can make Trump lose it completely he can be shown to be unfit for office on mental health grounds.


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    #2695
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,054 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im not convinced sanders will go for it again

    Sanders can't win a general election imvho

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2696
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Article 4 of the 25th amendment has a way to impeach without the Congress.

    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

    However if the president contests his executive then congress has to decide by 2/3 majority.

    the people in the administration can fact do something other than a soft coup if they are so worried.


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    #2697
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Sanders can't win a general election imvho

    Neither could trump.


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    #2698
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    strandroad wrote: »
    If they can make Trump completely lose it he can be shown to be unfit for the office on mental health grounds.

    Still needs article 4 of the 25th amendment. The inner circle has to step up.


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    #2699
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,054 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Neither could trump.

    Can you spot the difference?

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #2700
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    He was after all elected as a de-facto party of one and now if he didn't already know it he is a presidency of one (and his press secretary).


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    #2701
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,060 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Still needs article 4 of the 25th amendment. The inner circle has to step up.

    There's an interesting sentence in that amendment: "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

    So, Congress could somehow designate another 'body' to decide, not just the cabinet. It'd need a law, maybe the 'Presidential Fitness commission', pretty amusing concept in the hyperpoliticized cesspit that is the US congress these days. So, technically the cabinet could be bypassed.

    Also, considering that the first most important criteria to be a cabinet secretary is loyalty to Trump, Pence would have some challenge getting a majority to agree to boot Trump out. I don't see it. However, this is all good for Trump, he's got more notice in the news, screaming front pages and online headlines everywhere. Plus it's only Thursday, usually we're left hanging on Friday when he goes off to golf.


    Found this, this a.m., tracking regulation under the Trump admin. Pretty much what you'd expect from the GOP - less safety, more pollution, more costs to consumers but less to business: https://www.brookings.edu/interactives/tracking-deregulation-in-the-trump-era/

    One of Trump's new regulations (there are plenty of them) is that safety inspections in mines can now happen after miners begin work, rather than before shifts start as in the past. Nice, well, miner safety costs money can't have that.


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