The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

Jolly Red Giant · 03-09-2018 06:04PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

They cut 4 of their 8 draft picks. Just because they re-signed McKenzie after he made through waivers or a guy made it to PS doesn't mean they weren't cut.

McKenzie was cut to allow Cravens onto IR with a return after week 8. If McKenzie was claimed off waivers then either DeAngelo Henderson or Holland would have been brought back to the roster.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Big difference in a team who made it to the Super Bowl cutting half of their draft class and a team that ended up with the 5th pick that year.

And here was me thinking BB was a draft guru.

By the way - one of the reasons why the Broncos had the 5th pick was because the 2017 draft was so unproductive last year.

Billy86 · 03-09-2018 07:34PM

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

TOss Sweep · 03-09-2018 07:41PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

And here was me thinking BB was a draft guru.
.

Said no one ever. Bill backs out of so many picks he is no draft guru. As Billy said Bill finds value outside the draft. The odd time he gets it right in the Draft but he has gotten it wrong more than a few times too many busts to think of. No different to any other coach really. The bonus to him him he doesn't bite on hype but also the drawback to that he has also passed on some quality also.

Any Pats fan or any fan that thinks Bill is a draft guru is a moron.

the baby bull elephant · 03-09-2018 07:42PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

Yeah, it seems to be a common belief among Pats fans that Belichick the coach often bails out Belichick the GM.

Jolly Red Giant · 03-09-2018 09:38PM

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't know that I've heard it said often that Belichick is a draft guru? The odd time sure because when you're around so long and the GOAT every plaudit will get thrown at you at some point, but he's far more often (and rightly) praised for his ability to use the draft and free agency to put together very solid teams with very few real weaknesses that can adapt to almost any opposition on both sides of the ball, have a very clear 'blue collar thinking men' character to them and are typically remarkably on the same page as an overall group.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Said no one ever. Bill backs out of so many picks he is no draft guru. As Billy said Bill finds value outside the draft. The odd time he gets it right in the Draft but he has gotten it wrong more than a few times too many busts to think of. No different to any other coach really. The bonus to him him he doesn't bite on hype but also the drawback to that he has also passed on some quality also.

Any Pats fan or any fan that thinks Bill is a draft guru is a moron.

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

BonnieSituation · 03-09-2018 09:57PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

That's up to him to do that. We all know about the Pat's tax/discount.

God knows I'm no fan of them but it works, because it works, because it works.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 03-09-2018 10:44PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

It is a lot easier to put a team together when the best QB in the NFL plays for a contract substantially below his 'market value - if only all the other 31 NFL teams were so lucky.

It's probably more beneficial that the best QB keeps playing to such a high standard than playing for less than what he could get. But Tom does get paid, not to the absolute maximum he could get, but that's a decision he makes.
It's also a lot more difficult to draft and put a team together when you make it to 12 AFC Championship games (the last 7 in a row) in the last 17 years.

Jolly Red Giant · 03-09-2018 10:53PM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

It's probably more beneficial that the best QB keeps playing to such a high standard than playing for less than what he could get. But Tom does get paid, not to the absolute maximum he could get, but that's a decision he makes.
It's also a lot more difficult to draft and put a team together when you make it to 12 AFC Championship games (the last 7 in a row) in the last 17 years.

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

BonnieSituation · 03-09-2018 11:00PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

JRG, no one is arguing that.

TOss Sweep · 03-09-2018 11:20PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Pats have consistently been at the top - and having the best QB in the NFL helps - as does the millions extra for FAs to support him.

When Denver had a comparable QB they made two of four - beating the Pats both times.

Seriously - if you are trying to argue that Brady taking more than $10million a year less than Rodgers doesn't help the Pats maintain their position then you are living in cloud-cuckoo land. In 2018 Brady will be 18th on the list of highest paid in the NFL - there are 15 QBs paid more than him.

Good old Rent a row here. Argue something no one is arguing about.

Does it help Brady take a pay cut? Of course it does you wont find anyone deny that and it they do they are clowns. But it also helps the Pats don't overpay players and get sucked in on one player. Every player in the NFL knows if you want to get paid going to New England is not the best course of action. But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. So it comes down to money or the want to win.

But hey if you want to bring up arguments that don't exist have at it. You seriously do get triggered by Pats fans even when nothing has been said that should set you off.

Realt Dearg Sec · 03-09-2018 11:24PM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. .

I heard they enter all the free agents in a raffle. It's a big reason guys want to go to New England.

TOss Sweep · 03-09-2018 11:28PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I heard they enter all the free agents in a raffle. It's a big reason guys want to go to New England.

Bill just googles "Who should I sign from the FA" and picks at random. He also looks at Snapface and instachat from time to time

Agreed they have been able to convince some solid Veterans to join over the years due to the chance of possibly winning it all.

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 05:30AM

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

BonnieSituation · 04-09-2018 10:22AM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

I think that was posted up above?

Either way it's an amazing story. You couldn't write it if you tried for fear people would say it was too far fetched. Amazing.

Billy86 · 04-09-2018 11:50AM

For reference, while he was quite cheap for a bit Tom Bradys cap number was bigger tha Rodgers this year and last. If I'm correct it was bigger than former mvps Cam Newton and Matt Ryan also, was more than any non QB and about 10th or so in the league. This year it is only a bit 4mn behind he second highest on the league (Garopollo is about 10mn higher again but a complete outlier and SF really wanted him and had tonnes of space to pay big now).

That said, I'm quite sure those numbers are from before Mack, Donald and Rodgers' deals of the last few days are taken into account. But this year and last there is no major advantage that existed a few seasons back... how did the Pats do last year again? Oh right, yet another Superbowl appearance. If I'm correct they are favourites or 2nd favourites again this year behind the Eagles.

EDIT: Correction - it is this year and next year I was thinking of, not last year and this year:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/ (11th highest overall)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2019/cap-hit/ (5th highest overall)

helimachoptor · 04-09-2018 11:58AM

just had a read there, mad stuff

Billy86 · 04-09-2018 12:07PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Incredible story about Kansas City Chiefs running backs coach Deland McCullough

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/24505521/the-jaw-dropping-story-nfl-coach-search-family

I think that was posted up above?

Either way it's an amazing story. You couldn't write it if you tried for fear people would say it was too far fetched. Amazing.

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 04:41PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Unintentional

I was on my phone all weekend and completely missed your post. But its a great story so no harm getting a 2nd post

Billy86 · 04-09-2018 04:47PM

Ah yeah, no bothers either - I'll just take any excuse to post that gif.

Jolly Red Giant · 04-09-2018 04:50PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

JRG, no one is arguing that.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Good old Rent a row here. Argue something no one is arguing about.

Actually @munstermagic11 argued that Brady playing at a high standard is more important than him taking significantly below his 'market value' - I would dispute that.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

Does it help Brady take a pay cut? Of course it does you wont find anyone deny that and it they do they are clowns. But it also helps the Pats don't overpay players and get sucked in on one player. Every player in the NFL knows if you want to get paid going to New England is not the best course of action. But they also know you could win a Soup Bowl. So it comes down to money or the want to win.

And I would agree - having Brady and having a winning team is an enticement for FAs (again this contracdicts mmagic who argued that it is harder to put together a team when you keep winning championships.

TOss Sweep wrote: »

But hey if you want to bring up arguments that don't exist have at it. You seriously do get triggered by Pats fans even when nothing has been said that should set you off.

My arguments were not targeted at Pats fans at all - I was making a point - Pats fans chose to react.

Billy86 · 04-09-2018 04:54PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Pats fans chose to react.

Well I guess I'm a Pats fan now, then.

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 04:56PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

Actually @munstermagic11 argued that Brady playing at a high standard is more important than him taking significantly below his 'market value' - I would dispute that.

Again my point you created your own argument.

And I would agree - having Brady and having a winning team is an enticement for FAs (again this contracdicts mmagic who argued that it is harder to put together a team when you keep winning championships.

He said Draft not FA

It's also a lot more difficult to draft and put a team together when you make it to 12 AFC Championship games

Which is true when you constantly sit in the last picks in the draft harder to find that quality that you may need.

My arguments were not targeted at Pats fans at all - I was making a point - Pats fans chose to react.

Sure.

OldMrBrennan83 · 04-09-2018 04:57PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Well I guess I'm a Pats fan now, then.

I'd jump now while you can. Can I come too?

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 04:57PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Well I guess I'm a Pats fan now, then.

Welcome aboard

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 04:57PM

Patww79 wrote: »

I'd jump now while you can. Can I come too?

More the merrier.

Jolly Red Giant · 04-09-2018 05:08PM

Billy86 wrote: »

For reference, while he was quite cheap for a bit Tom Bradys cap number was bigger tha Rodgers this year and last. If I'm correct it was bigger than former mvps Cam Newton and Matt Ryan also, was more than any non QB and about 10th or so in the league. This year it is only a bit 4mn behind he second highest on the league (Garopollo is about 10mn higher again but a complete outlier and SF really wanted him and had tonnes of space to pay big now).

That said, I'm quite sure those numbers are from before Mack, Donald and Rodgers' deals of the last few days are taken into account. But this year and last there is no major advantage that existed a few seasons back... how did the Pats do last year again? Oh right, yet another Superbowl appearance. If I'm correct they are favourites or 2nd favourites again this year behind the Eagles.

EDIT: Correction - it is this year and next year I was thinking of, not last year and this year:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/ (11th highest overall)
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2019/cap-hit/ (5th highest overall)

Aaron Rodgers cap numbers -

2014
$17,550,000 13.2%
2015
$18,250,000 12.7%
2016
$19,250,000 12.4%
2017
$20,300,000 12.2%
2018
$20,900,000 11.8%
2019
$26,500,000 13.9%

Tom Brady cap numbers

2014
$14,800,000 11.1%
2015
$14,000,000 9.8%
2016
$13,764,706 8.9%
2017
$14,000,000 8.4%
2018
$22,000,000 12.4%
2019
$27,000,000 14.2%

Since 2014 Brady's cap hit is $18million less than Rodgers - and the only reason he is higher than Rodgers in 2018 and 2019 is because Rodgers got $57.5million up front when he signed his extension. Rodgers cap hit in 2020 is $32.6million (and it increases in subsequent years).

The best QB saving an average of $3.6million a year in cap space over the second best QB in the league will significantly help your team.

By the way - these are the cap numbers for Joe Flacco

2014
$14,800,000 11.1%
2015
$14,550,000 10.2%
2016
$22,550,000 14.5%
2017
$24,550,000 14.7%
2018
$24,750,000 14.0%
2019
$26,500,000 13.9%

Over the same 5 year period Brady has a lower cap hit than Joe Flacco to the tune of over $22million.

You are incorrect about Cam Newton - since 2015 - 2018 (the year Newton was out of his rookie contract) Brady is $14million lower.

You are also incorrect about Matt Ryan - 2014 - 2018 - Brady is $24million lower.

(all numbers from overthecap)

None of this takes into account what Brady could actually be making if he took 'market value'.

Jolly Red Giant · 04-09-2018 05:10PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Well I guess I'm a Pats fan now, then.

You can be whatever you want to be Billy - who am I to object

(and my comment about Pats fans was specifically directed at Toss - who cannot refrain from commenting about anything I post on the forum)

TOss Sweep · 04-09-2018 05:13PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

You can be whatever you want to be Billy - who am I to object

(and my comment about Pats fans was specifically directed at Toss - who cannot refrain from commenting about anything I post on the forum)

No I can but I choose not to because its fun when you flip flop with your obsession with the Patriots. The fact you are even debating this shows your obsession remains strong. You talk more about the Pats this time of year than Pats fans do. Its hilarious.

Knex* · 04-09-2018 05:14PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFPdqeeJBY8

Brett Kollman posted this video and excerpt to reddit.

With the start of a new season upon us in just a few short days, I wanted to take some time to reflect on this past year and celebrate the game we all love. The football world has certainly been through a lot since last September - from various PR nightmares, to confusing rule changes, to seemingly endless political controversies. But beneath all of the drama and all of the tension, there has also always remained that same innate magic that keeps drawing us back in every single fall.

It is that unbelievable magic - that constant emotional roller coaster of hope, despair, and triumph - that I want to re-live with all of you today. I want us all to remember why we love this game so much, and why no matter how divided we are from Mondays to Saturdays, on Sundays we all pass the wings, crack a beer, and cheer as one unified nation.

The NFL has indeed been transformed into a symbol of change in America - whether willingly or not - but at its core, it is also a symbol of what has stayed the same. This country was founded on principles of determination, tenacity, and fighting harder for the man next to you than for yourself. Regardless of where we stand on certain issues, or what teams we root for, those principles are still the lifeblood of this league. They've always been here, and they always will be.

So as we set off down the road to Atlanta and Super Bowl 53, just remember what this game represents. Remember the battles, remember the magic, and most importantly remember the unity. We've got 22 Sundays left before that road reaches its end - so cherish them while you can. Thank you all for watching.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/9cvypd/oc_ive_finally_finished_a_dream_project_of_mine_a/

DM1292 · 04-09-2018 05:15PM

Seahawks are finishing bottom of the NFC West.

Don't @ me.. :P

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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