Help me on Drink Driving law 2018

Victor · 02-09-2018 10:56AM

Masala wrote: »

But the legislation is based on 50ml per 100ml of blood.

This is off by a factor of 1,000. It's 50mg per 100ml of blood.

The rules: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

Driving or attempting to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while there is present in your body a quantity of alcohol such that, within 3 hours after so driving or attempting to drive, the concentration of alcohol in your blood exceeds a concentration of:
- 50 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood for experience drivers
- 20 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood for other drivers

Note that the second category also applies to bus & truck drivers and some others.

Masala wrote: »

Drink aware advice that 1 x 100ml is equal to I x Standard drink. It further advises that that's equal to 9 grams of alcohol. But the legislation is based on 50ml per 100ml of blood.

So... how do I convert from the grams to ml to see what a glass of wine registers in a 100ml of blood

You can't convert directly without knowing other information.

The alcohol content of wine, like any other drink will vary. While the label % will be reasonably accurate, it won't be perfectly accurate. But let us say the glass of wine has 9 grams of alcohol.

Humans have blood equal to about 7% of their body weight. This will vary.

Let us say an adult human weighs 70kg. This will vary.

Blood has a density of about 1 kg/litre. This will vary.

So, 'our' human has 5 kg (5 litres) of blood. This is 5,000 millilitres.

That's 9 grams of alcohol per 5,000 millilitres of blood.

This is equivalent of 180 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood.

Now this is well above the legal limit. The difference is accounted for by a number of factors. Not all alcohol is absorbed. The alcohol that is absorbed takes time to be absorbed. When absorbed we start to both burn it in our livers and remove if from our blood with our kidneys. These factors will vary from person to person.

So, as a general rule. Don't drink and drive at all. If you have been drinking, allow at least 1 hour per unit of alcohol before you drive. If you are below average weight or have a low alcohol tolerance, allow more time. If you've been drinking, make sure you re-hydrate and eat before driving.

vandriver · 02-09-2018 11:01AM

Victor wrote: »

You can't directly without know other information.

The alcohol content of wine, like any other drink will vary. While the label % will be reasonably accurate, it won't be perfectly accurate.

Humans have blood equal to about 7% of their body weight. This will vary.

Let us say an adult human weighs 70kg. This will vary.

The rules: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/drink_driving_offences_in_ireland.html

Note that the second category also applies to bus & truck drivers and some others.

And taxi drivers?

OldMrBrennan83 · 02-09-2018 11:07AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Yes I know. The questions were imo not really worthy of answering and were already replied to more than adequately by other posters to whom I refer you .

I did also raise aspects that have been ignored

Not about to argue with you; others are dealing with the real aspects of this subject that is infinitely painful to so many folk .

Over and out from me.

There's a shock.

Anyway, as has already been said later on; get a breathalyser. I bought one yesterday (had been asking about them in motors forum) after sitting for probably hours longer than I needed to yesterday morning before I could go anywhere.

OldMrBrennan83 · 02-09-2018 11:08AM

cbyrd wrote: »

The rule of thumb to be sure is one hour per drink from when you stop drinking. So if you've have seven drinks, stop at 11pm, then you should be fine by 6am. This is to cover differences in sex, weight, height, food intake and tolerance.
It's the one I always followed.

Just one thing to remember is that most people drink cans or pints, so each one of them is really two drinks.

Victor · 02-09-2018 11:14AM

Patww79 wrote: »

two drinks.

Two units.

OldMrBrennan83 · 02-09-2018 11:15AM

Victor wrote: »

Two units.

Yeah but the post I quoted seems to be calling a drink a unit, when pints and cans are two units, so two drinks.

Discodog · 02-09-2018 11:30AM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The government want to reinforce the message that no alcohol is ok if you're driving. Whilst there needs to be a small allowance to overcome accidental consumption e.g. mouthwash they should not encourage consumption by saying that there are different degrees of unacceptability

There is a world of difference between someone who has one drink & accidentally goes over the limit & the guy who has 6 pints. Punishing the same is wrong. Ireland is following the UK. There will be a hardcore of drinkers who simply won't care. I have actually heard people say that they might as well be done for 6 pints.

Heckler · 02-09-2018 11:30AM

cbyrd wrote: »

The rule of thumb to be sure is one hour per drink from when you stop drinking. So if you've have seven drinks, stop at 11pm, then you should be fine by 6am. This is to cover differences in sex, weight, height, food intake and tolerance.
It's the one I always followed.

Nope. Like Brian said earlier. You start processing alcohol as soon as you start drinking. A lot of people have this notion that you start counting from the time you stop drinking. Start counting from the time you start drinking. i.e. have 4 pints between 6pm and 9pm. Thats 8 units. Tipsy till 5am ? Nope. Only till 2am.

Seth Brundle · 02-09-2018 11:51AM

Discodog wrote: »

There is a world of difference between someone who has one drink & accidentally goes over the limit & the guy who has 6 pints. Punishing the same is wrong. Ireland is following the UK. There will be a hardcore of drinkers who simply won't care. I have actually heard people say that they might as well be done for 6 pints.

So the slogan should really be "Never ever drink and drive but if you do then don't drink too much"?

Discodog · 02-09-2018 12:33PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So the slogan should really be "Never ever drink and drive but if you do then don't drink too much"?

No but someone will get caught this morning taking their kids to GAA. They won't deliberately drink & drive. They had a few drinks at home last night & were sure that they were safe & under the limit this morning. They get the same ban as the guy who went to the pub & didn't give a damn.

indioblack · 02-09-2018 12:40PM

Graces7 wrote: »

So the only real answer is? Don't drink if you are driving. Easy enough?

Spot on.
I gave up the booze a couple of years ago - found I liked it too much.
Bit of a drag at parties. Everyone laughing their heads off and I'm the one that has to drive them home.

3rdDegree · 02-09-2018 12:40PM

Heckler wrote: »

Nope. Like Brian said earlier. You start processing alcohol as soon as you start drinking. A lot of people have this notion that you start counting from the time you stop drinking. Start counting from the time you start drinking. i.e. have 4 pints between 6pm and 9pm. Thats 8 units. Tipsy till 5am ? Nope. Only till 2am.

Is this a joke? If not, then absolutely dreadful advice!

endacl · 02-09-2018 12:52PM

the beer revolu wrote: »

But for how long before driving?
2 hours? 12 hours, 24 hours?

A couple of years ago I did a gig with a friend who did the driving. Not being the driver, I had two pints as we were playing, and being somewhat ‘old school’ regarding the regulations, so did he. We played from 9-11, and headed off. We were pulled in at a checkpoint, and genius had left his license at home, and failed the test based on the lower level, and was duly arrested. I didn’t fancy being stranded, and asked the guard to test me too, to see if I’d be safe to drive his car. I blew a zero.

Now, the lesson I take from this isn’t that I’m grand to drink two pints over two hours and be ok to drive. I’m male, 40s, 6’4” and 17 stone and in good health. I processed two pints quickly that night. My pal didn’t. The lesson I take is that you never know and it’s best not to chance it.

Upshot of the night: the guards kept him waiting about an hour in the station before testing him again, he blew under the limit, and off he went.

RiderOnTheStorm · 02-09-2018 12:57PM

The problem with the grams of alcohol in the drink then in your blood, is that the amount of blood you have in your body is a huge variable. A glass of wine consumed by a small 8 stone adult and same glass in a 16 stone adult will result in different levels.

thomasm wrote:

Buy a breathtlyser.......it then helps you know what you can drink and how long your body takes to process it out of your system and when you are safe to drive

This is best way for you to know your levels.

Seth Brundle · 02-09-2018 04:23PM

Discodog wrote: »

No but someone will get caught this morning taking their kids to GAA. They won't deliberately drink & drive. They had a few drinks at home last night & were sure that they were safe & under the limit this morning. They get the same ban as the guy who went to the pub & didn't give a damn.

The reason for not allowing driving whilst you've alcohol is because of the scientific fact that it impairs ones ability to drive.
So how much alcohol do you think is ok to have in you when bringing kids to a gaa match? Id say none.
If you make allowances then you're saying some levels of alcohol are safer than others. You're either fit to drive or you're not: there is no middle ground.

Corb_lund · 02-09-2018 05:08PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The reason for not allowing driving whilst you've alcohol is because of the scientific fact that it impairs ones ability to drive.
So how much alcohol do you think is ok to have in you when bringing kids to a gaa match? Id say none.
If you make allowances then you're saying some levels of alcohol are safer than others. You're either fit to drive or you're not: there is no middle ground.

The sanctimonious people are out in force. The law says 0.5 is fine so you saying nil is contradicting that.

Going to be a boring world soon.

GarIT · 02-09-2018 05:23PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The reason for not allowing driving whilst you've alcohol is because of the scientific fact that it impairs ones ability to drive.
So how much alcohol do you think is ok to have in you when bringing kids to a gaa match? Id say none.
If you make allowances then you're saying some levels of alcohol are safer than others. You're either fit to drive or you're not: there is no middle ground.

I completely disagree. You ask how much alcohol is ok, whatever the limit is defines how much is ok.

There is a middle ground. I can't walk after having 12 pints. If I had one two hours ago it wouldn't be noticable. Some levels of alcohol are safer than others that's basic logic.

Yes I agree you're either fit to drive or your not, and that line is drawn where the limit is not at 0.

I regularly go out and have 2 pints on a 4+ hour night out and drive home. I've done the maths and I'm fairly confident I'd be under the limit.

TCM · 02-09-2018 05:33PM

Patww79 wrote:

Why is it thinly veiled? That's exactly what people should know.

People should not drink & drive, then there's no problem.

Seth Brundle · 02-09-2018 06:33PM

Corb_lund wrote: »

The sanctimonious people are out in force.

Am I sanctimonious because I disagree with an opinion?

Corb_lund wrote: »

The law says 0.5 is fine so you saying nil is contradicting that.

The law says that you are allowed to have a blood alcohol level up to 0.5 but does not say that it is ok to drive with any amount of alcohol.
I'd stand by my claim that it is not ok to have any alcohol in your system.
Nonetheless my point was against graduated punishments.

GarIT wrote: »

You ask how much alcohol is ok, whatever the limit is defines how much is ok.

Why do you think does the law not say zero then?
The only reason it has a minimum tolerance is to avoid readings from other sources such as mouthwash. It is not there to say you can have this much and it's safe but beyond that level it's not safe.

GarIT wrote: »

I regularly go out and have 2 pints on a 4+ hour night out and drive home. I've done the maths and I'm fairly confident I'd be under the limit.

"Fairly confident"?
For the craic, on one of those occasions would you drive to a garda station and tell them that you've just driven there after having two pints and get them to breathalyze you?

In fairness and I've admitted it here many times before: I've driven many many times in the distant past with alcohol on me. I hold my hands up and say it was completely stupid and dangerous. Would I drive with any alcohol on me now (regardless of the law)? Nope.

GarIT · 02-09-2018 06:57PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why do you think does the law not say zero then?
The only reason it has a minimum tolerance is to avoid readings from other sources such as mouthwash. It is not there to say you can have this much and it's safe but beyond that level it's not safe.

"Fairly confident"?
For the craic, on one of those occasions would you drive to a garda station and tell them that you've just driven there after having two pints and get them to breathalyze you?

In fairness and I've admitted it here many times before: I've driven many many times in the distant past with alcohol on me. I hold my hands up and say it was completely stupid and dangerous. Would I drive with any alcohol on me now (regardless of the law)? Nope.

I have a feeling you're going to correct me and decide I'm wrong but I think the law allows a non-zero amount because it's ok to have more than zero. I understand and agree with the moves towards zero tolerance but it is a scale and not black and white. Someone who has had one unit of alcohol is no more dangerous that someone who is tired, has an intense migraine, has bad hayfever, has been in an in argument or is angry, is driving a wife in labour, has some other injury (I've heard of someone who drove themselves to hospital with a burst appendix and a woman in labour who drive herself in).

I'm sure I'd be a better driver after 5 pints than my granddad is on his best day but they still let him drive. about 6 months ago he drifted onto the wrong side of the road, just an hour ago he was driving with his wipers on full speed in the light drizzle because he didn't have the motor skills needed to turn it on without just whacking the stick. Yet if you try to make him stop driving it's his legal right to and you need a doctor to say he can't drive but do you think he will go with me to the doctor if I tell him were going to the doctor so they can stop him driving?

Lots of things can make you an impaired driver, zero alcohol is safer than some but being under the limit but not zero isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

I wouldn't walk into a garda station not because I'd be worried about it but because that's a ridiculous scenario. I have thought of buying a breathalyzer though, it seems like something handy to have.

When I say fairly confident, I've done the maths and it works out that I should be at 0 alcohol. I have no more than 2 pints and have them finished before 9 and don't drive until a decent bit after 12.

Pauliedragon · 02-09-2018 09:10PM

It's very simple OP. Don't drive after having a pint.

02-09-2018 09:29PM

Units are classed as 1/2 pint of regular beer, I pub measure of spirits (think that’s 35cl)or 100ml wine
They say over that and you’ll be over the limit
One unit takes approx 1 hour to leave your system
So a pint will take 2 hours.

People process alcohol at different rates - that’s why from a safety and prosecution perspective most say don’t drink even one unit of alcohol and then drive.
No idea who “they” are.

Hotblack Desiato · 03-09-2018 02:22PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Nonetheless my point was against graduated punishments.

Wait, what?
We have graduated punishments for every other offence, why not this one?
Punishment must fit the crime.

Why do you think does the law not say zero then?

Because that's impracticable and not justified on road safety grounds.

Would I drive with any alcohol on me now (regardless of the law)? Nope.

So, if you have a few pints on Friday night, would you drive Saturday afternoon? Your alcohol level will be low but it won't be zero. How long should people have to wait? 24h? And then if they are 1mg above a stupidly low limit they get punished the same as someone 200mg over? None of this makes a lick of sense.

Victor · 03-09-2018 06:29PM

Corb_lund wrote: »

The sanctimonious people are out in force. The law says 0.5 is fine so you saying nil is contradicting that.

Note that alcohol intoxication is not a linear scale.

At the legal limit, impairment would be slight for most people. Impairment would likely be higher for people who are also on other drugs (legal or not), are distracted / tired and/or hungry and those that are sensitive to alcohol.

At twice the legal limit, impairment is definitely present, although not severe.

At four times the legal limit, impairment is severe, and driving is profoundly unsafe.

At six times the legal limit, many alcohol users will be dead.

Pkiernan · 03-09-2018 06:32PM

What is the obsession so many Irish have with this poison?

_Brian · 03-09-2018 06:36PM

Discodog wrote: »

No but someone will get caught this morning taking their kids to GAA. They won't deliberately drink & drive. They had a few drinks at home last night & were sure that they were safe & under the limit this morning. They get the same ban as the guy who went to the pub & didn't give a damn.

Ahh wait a minute.
So to be over the limit say at 9am you would need to be drinking bery very late or have a serious skin of drink the night before.
Having a few drinks doesn’t put you over the next morning running the kids to GAA, that’s just pub talk.

endacl · 03-09-2018 06:50PM

Patww79 wrote: »

You've answered nothing that has been asked in reply to you.

Ever.

4ensic15 · 03-09-2018 10:09PM

Discodog wrote: »

No but someone will get caught this morning taking their kids to GAA. They won't deliberately drink & drive. They had a few drinks at home last night & were sure that they were safe & under the limit this morning. They get the same ban as the guy who went to the pub & didn't give a damn.

Not necessarily. The ban is longer depending on the amount of alcohol in the blood.

Corb_lund · 03-09-2018 10:36PM

Victor wrote: »

Note that alcohol intoxication is not a linear scale.

At the legal limit, impairment would be slight for most people. Impairment would likely be higher for people who are also on other drugs (legal or not), are distracted / tired and/or hungry and those that are sensitive to alcohol.

At twice the legal limit, impairment is definitely present, although not severe.

At four times the legal limit, impairment is severe, and driving is profoundly unsafe.

At six times the legal limit, many alcohol users will be dead.

And all that is irrelevant up to the limit as per the law.. After that isn't really relevant.

Help me on Drink Driving law 2018

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