So who's going to see the Pope?

EdgeCase · 26-08-2018 02:09PM

erica74 wrote: »

It's funny how delusional the organisers were about the numbers they expected.
Still no apology and no action from the man in charge of that corrupt organisation.
Lashing rain today for that mass.
Maybe he's planning on issuing an apology and a plan of action today.

To be fair to the they literally had no idea what to expect. I would be hugely critical of the church and the state's odd relationship with it but, it could have been big, small, middling or even openly hostile. The reality is nobody could really predict it and it's a very odd and complex dynamic.

I'd rather see it over organised and going smoothly than under organised and turning into a mess. You're also talking about a lot of old and not necessarily very mobile attendees.

I think they've just gone with the prepare for everything approach. The downside is that it's cost a small fortune.

I think we know to scale things back a lot for any subsequent visits in the decades ahead. Once in almost 40 years isn't really that big a deal but I think it'll be a long time before any future pope's are back and probably never on this kind of scale of organisation.

You've also still got a situation where the population keeps telling the state on the census that it's 80% Catholic and then doesn't seem to actually be much more than nominally so. That further adds to confused policy making and distortions.

Maybe we need a "practicing Catholic" box or a box that asks : "do you need religious ethos services?"

whiskeyman · 26-08-2018 02:12PM

Harold Rhythmic Cornbread wrote: »

Anyone done a headcount as of yet?
Can't imagine 500,000 will actually show up somehow.

Overhead shot on rte showed barely a tenth full.
I know still plenty coning into the park, but I think it'll be way off the 500k mark.
The poor weather this morning won't have helped.

EdgeCase · 26-08-2018 02:15PM

I'd reckon 200,000 max and I think that's very optimistic.

I spoke to a lot of older people who had no intentions of going.

There's much more of a sense of what the public interest is today than there was a few weeks ago. You can fairly clearly see it's a bit of a national "meh"

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 02:17PM

RTE reporting sparse crowd. People ignoring corrals and moving to the front.

Surprised at such a low turnout, I thought they would really muster the troops for this one.

EdgeCase · 26-08-2018 02:23PM

I get the impression there simply aren't any troops to muster. I think we are really seeing the organisation as an outward shell of its former self.
The decline has also been rapid enough that I think many both inside and outside the church are often a bit surprised. It's just a huge shift in Irish sociology.

We've gone from a somewhat extreme version of being devout Catholics to a far more normal relationship with religion that is looking much more like the rest of Northern Europe. It's just the change happened more rapidly, compressed over a few decades.

Beechwoodspark · 26-08-2018 02:25PM

Hearing from my friends there’s a fairly low turnout at the protest event

Must say, I’m surprised. I thought there’d be a huge crowd protesting. But no, seemingly not.

Yer Da sells Avon · 26-08-2018 02:26PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Surprised at such a low turnout, I thought they would really muster the troops for this one.

As the last two referendums showed, the troops just aren't there any more.

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 02:29PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hearing from my friends there’s a fairly low turnout at the protest event

Must say, I’m surprised. I thought there’d be a huge crowd protesting. But no, seemingly not.

Are they saying it's 'a brilliant day' over and over to try and convince themselves?

Beechwoodspark · 26-08-2018 02:31PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are they saying it's 'a brilliant day' over and over to try and convince themselves?

Not so far anyway

Ronan|Raven · 26-08-2018 02:32PM

Could do with a bit of crowd control with people walking in front of the popemobile.

EdgeCase · 26-08-2018 02:33PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Hearing from my friends there’s a fairly low turnout at the protest event

Must say, I’m surprised. I thought there’d be a huge crowd protesting. But no, seemingly ppl are not too bothered or something.

It's weird though. It's not like an anger it's more like a sense of bitter disappointment and betrayal. I think that's what you're seeing in the response.

I don't think you'll see angry protests but more of a quietly walking away.

I mean like it or not; the church did play a very big role in Irish society and it's a bit like having discovered a relative did something utterly awful. You don't necessarily react with an outburst or anger. It's more a gnawing, sad sense or deep betrayal and a reassessment of your relationship with them, or even whether you want to just no longer have any relationship with them.

I think that's where Ireland is at the moment with the Catholic Church.

It's great to see the country moving forward and being progressive but it's also very sad to see the trust of so many people having been so utterly betrayed and abused.

Some people will express that by protesting most will just fizzle out the relationship.

That's the reality of it and I think it's probably just the end of an era being displayed with a lack of interest.

I know talking to one or two of my older relatives; th sense you get is they feel like they were conned.

PTH2009 · 26-08-2018 02:33PM

I'd say hes fairly pissed of at waving

Ronan|Raven · 26-08-2018 02:36PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

It's weird though. It's not like an anger it's more like a sense of bitter disappointment and betrayal. I think that's what you're seeing in the response.

I don't think you'll see angry protests but more of a quietly walking away.

I mean like it or not; the church did play a very big role in Irish society and it's a bit like having discovered a relative did something utterly awful. You don't necessarily react with an outburst or anger. It's more a gnawing, sad sense or deep betrayal and a reassessment of your relationship with them, or even whether you want to just no longer have any relationship with them.

I think that's where Ireland is at the moment with the Catholic Church.

It's great to see the country moving forward and being progressive but it's also very sad to see the trust of so many people having been so utterly betrayed and abused.

Some people will express that by protesting most will just fizzle out the relationship.

That's the reality of it and I think it's probably just the end of an era being displayed with a lack of interest.

I know talking to one or two of my older relatives; th sense you get is they feel like they were conned.

One of the best posts I have read in a long time and really does sum it up.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 02:36PM

Beechwoodspark wrote:

Hearing from my friends thereâ€™s a fairly low turnout at the protest event

If you are attempting to troll you need to up your game. Poor attempt tbh. 4 /10

Spanish Eyes · 26-08-2018 02:37PM

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Could do with a bit of crowd control with people walking in front of the popemobile.

Yes I agree, it was looking very hairy there and the security detail were looking quite concerned!

I'm sure it will all be fine in the end.

I think the numbers are OK. Looks quite full to me. I reckon those at the back will move forward if there is room. Feck the ticket colour this is Ireland!

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 02:37PM

EdgeCase wrote:

I know talking to one or two of my older relatives; th sense you get is they feel like they were conned.

Great response and completely accurate.

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:38PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

I'd reckon 200,000 max and I think that's very optimistic.

I spoke to a lot of older people who had no intentions of going.

There's much more of a sense of what the public interest is today than there was a few weeks ago. You can fairly clearly see it's a bit of a national "meh"

Turnout looks poor. Hasn't been that wet in the east of the country really, Knock looked actually wet!

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:40PM

The security are quite heavy handed. Shouldering women and children out of the way :eek:
Not very Christian is it?

harr · 26-08-2018 02:40PM

You would imagine they would have had the crowd fenced off instead of having to drive through them...security doing a good job in these circumstances.

Spanish Eyes · 26-08-2018 02:41PM

road_high wrote: »

The security are quite heavy handed. Shouldering women and children out of the way :eek:
Not very Christian is it?

TBH they had to do it, otherwise Frankie would have been totally mobbed. Looked a bit dangerous there.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 02:41PM

road_high wrote:

The security are quite heavy handed. Shoulder women and children out of the way Not very Christian is it?

People connected with the church being heavy handed with women and children? I'm shocked .....

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 02:43PM

Is there even a 100,000 there? No density at all in most of the corrals.

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:43PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

TBH they had to do it, otherwise Frankie would have been totally mobbed. Looked a bit dangerous there.

Why let people beyond the barriers then? Seems a bit silly to me

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:44PM

Lots of Polish and eastern european flags in the audience.

Tzardine · 26-08-2018 02:46PM

EdgeCase wrote: »

I'd reckon 200,000 max and I think that's very optimistic.

I spoke to a lot of older people who had no intentions of going.

There's much more of a sense of what the public interest is today than there was a few weeks ago. You can fairly clearly see it's a bit of a national "meh"

Interesting figures.

In 1979, 42% of the population of the whole country turned out.

If it is 200,000 people today then that is just 4%. Says it all really.

If it was in another 40 years I reckon it would be less than 1% once the current old generation die out.

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:47PM

It looks very empty there. You'd imagine most people that are going have arrived by now. Some areas empty

Spanish Eyes · 26-08-2018 02:47PM

road_high wrote: »

Why let people beyond the barriers then? Seems a bit silly to me

Yes, I agree with you. Don't know how that happened, and every Garda in the country is on duty! Ah the exuberance of the congregation, all looking for the best pic for Facebook or something holy maybe.

harr · 26-08-2018 02:47PM

road_high wrote: »

Why let people beyond the barriers then? Seems a bit silly to me

People breaking out of the pens is what it looks like...the fences are up. Maybe more security at the barriers was what was needed.

whiskeyman · 26-08-2018 02:47PM

That photographer who keeps running ahead of the car must be super fit!

road_high · 26-08-2018 02:48PM

harr wrote: »

People breaking out of the pens is what it looks like...the fences are up. Maybe more security at the barriers was what was needed.

You'd imagine something so organized as this that wouldn't happen! Knock looked more controlled.

So who's going to see the Pope?

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