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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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Comments

  • #2192
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,589 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ricero wrote: »
    Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

    Same question to you ricero, genuinely interested if it would have any effect on you?
    Does the news coming out of America, make you feel any differently about the man?

    If it is true, do you feel completely conned? Because you should, any normal person would.


  • #2193
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ricero wrote: »
    Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.
    So how many mealy mouth apologies with absolutely no follow up action does that make now?


  • #2194
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Does the news coming out of America, make you feel any differently about the man?

    If it is true, do you feel completely conned? Because you should, any normal person would.

    That is exactly the correct word. Conned.


  • #2195
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    ricero wrote: »
    Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

    He met 7 abuse victims, that's all & I bet they were very carefully chosen.


  • #2196
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    So there was abuse of seminarians and an altar boy but all Ratzinger did was to order him "to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.”
    More covering up the truth to avoid any scandal against the business.

    I know, I am shocked that this is the church penalty for raping children.


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  • #2197
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    ricero wrote: »
    Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

    They've apologised a hundred times over the last 20 years., it's an apology every five minutes, but when are we actually going to see those responsible in the Church management held to account ?


  • #2198
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    So how many mealy mouth apologies with absolutely no follow up action does that make now?

    All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church


  • #2199
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    ricero wrote: »
    All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

    Lets wait and see?????????
    For how bloody long???????
    Until the survivors are dead??????

    The abuse has been happening for decades and is ongoing.
    The cover-ups have been happening for decades and is ongoing.

    Your response is cowardice.

    Hopefully the tide will turn? Fcuking hell. How many lives need to be ruined or ended before the tide turns?


  • #2200
    AdrianII
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭AdrianII


    147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

    We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

    Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

    I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.


  • #2201
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Sycamore Tree wrote: »
    Lets wait and see?????????
    For how bloody long???????
    Until the survivors are dead??????

    The abuse has been happening for decades and is ongoing.
    The cover-ups have been happening for decades and is ongoing.


    Exactly

    And yet the state today continues to refuse to arrest, question, search and convict a single Irish bishop or former bishop, and the media fail to ever bring this up either.


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  • #2202
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    ricero wrote: »
    All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church
    Wait and see? He had thr perfect opportunity to announce plans to reform the global RCC child protection measures along with global mandatory reporting of offenders, etc.
    But he didn't and I don't believe that he will either.


  • #2203
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    AdrianII wrote: »
    147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

    We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

    Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

    I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.

    Oh dear. Are you selling blinkers too?

    Actions Adrian Actions.

    One simple action is for the pope to open the Vatican records for everyone to analyse the scale of church abuses and for people to understand the truth. Freedom of information for all those wronged by the church whether it be raped children or people illegally forced to stay in laundries or forced adoptions or whatever.


  • #2204
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    AdrianII wrote: »
    We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

    Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.
    An apology means absolutely nothing if it is not followed up with a change in behaviour.
    The fact that Frank himself is directly implicated in a cover up just highlights the utter hipocracy within the RCC.


  • #2205
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Exactly

    And yet the state today continues to refuse to arrest, question, search and convict a single Irish bishop or former bishop, and the media fail to ever bring this up either.
    Has the church given them the evidence yet?


  • #2206
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    ricero wrote: »
    Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

    It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

    So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.


  • #2207
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Irish Kings wrote:
    They've apologised a hundred times over the last 20 years., it's an apology every five minutes, but when are we actually going to see those responsible in the Church management held to account ?

    Or for the church to stop covering up for them


  • #2208
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    ricero wrote:
    All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church
    Wait to see what? This pope has been proven to be a cover up merchant. We now have to wait for the next pope to see if he finds child sex abuse repulsive enough not to cover it up
    AdrianII wrote:
    147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.


    Or third option. Move on & Read a different thread if you don't like it.


  • #2209
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,589 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

    So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.

    Well it is now alleged that the pope was complicit in doing a bit of hamstringing himself.

    Absolutely shocking if true. How can anyone waving flags today not feel totally betrayed and dirty if it is proven.


  • #2210
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

    So it sounds like nothing will change due to an institution that is rotten to its core.

    Sadly this is what we are dealing with here. I'm sure Frankie is lovely chap but he is surrounded by evil hippocrates who wield all the power. Until we get rid of them we may as well be pissing in the wind


  • #2211
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Or for the church to stop covering up for them

    What's stopping the Irish Church continuing to cover up their crimes if the current state authorities and politicians are not going to enforce the criminal justice system ? Why are we constantly being fed this lie that criminals are somehow going to be self policing ???


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  • #2212
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    ricero wrote: »
    All i say is lets await and see. Hopefully the tide has turned and justice will prevail. Reform and reconciliation is badly needed for the victims and for the catholic church

    Wait and see? How long would you propose to do that?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #2213
    mattser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭mattser


    AdrianII wrote: »
    147 pages of absolute cr#p. If you want to go see him, then go and see him. If you want to protest, go and protest. Most people couldn't care less.

    We all know about the abuse scandals, new ones emerging aren't going to change anything. Of course they are disgusting and unforgivable but what makes it better? What do the people want from him?

    Even if the pope apologised relentlessly it wouldnt be good enough for some people.

    I'd have a good bet the OP and half the people on here are watching it on tv.

    Of course they are. The fact that that it is running so smoothly must be causing them serious disturbance.


  • #2214
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Irish Kings wrote:
    What's stopping the Irish Church continuing to cover up their crimes if the current state authorities and politicians are not going to enforce the criminal justice system ? Why are we constantly being fed this lie that criminals are somehow going to be self policing ???

    The main reason that the state hasn't gotten involved too much to date & the reasoning behind Michael Woods limiting the church payouts is because the state itself is partially to blame too.

    The state was happy to let the church run the mother and babies homes, hospital, school industrial school etc. The church is like a pedophile. A pedophile works their way into the families lives. Into their homes. They make themselves irreplaceable. Church does the same thing with the state.


  • #2215
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    mattser wrote: »
    Of course they are. The fact that that it is running so smoothly must be causing them serious disturbance.
    ;) Oh I wish he would come every year so that Irish members of the Roman organisation can defend their inaction and blinkered views.


  • #2216
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Fighting Tao wrote:
    It doesn’t sound like it. One of the victims was speaking on Radio 1 this morning and he said that the pope seemed oblivious to the laundries and even Tuam (doesn’t he have the internet??) He said that the pope is hamstrung by the bishops that do not want change.

    I heard that myself.

    I don't believe for a second that his advisors would let him talk to these victims without at least a basic knowledge of the laundries or mother and baby homes.

    I don't believe for a second that the Vatican aren't aware of the claims of slave labour in the laundry. The claims of child trafficking to the highest bidder. The claims of up to 800 tiny babies bodies buried in a sewer.

    I understand Ireland is a small country and the Vatican have their fingers in most countries but they are aware of these claims. Its an insult for the Pope to claim ignorance of these claims


  • #2217
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    Has the church given them the evidence yet?

    Since when did criminals hand over evidence without a warrant ?
    Why has one still not been Issued against Irish bishops ?


  • #2218
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Irish Kings wrote:
    Since when did criminals hand over evidence without a warrant ? Why has one still not been Issued against Irish bishops ?


    Because the Bishops said that they are very sorry & promise not to do the again? That worked for them for decades


  • #2219
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,051 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Why is anybody shocked at the story? He may come across as new and hip and caring but he only get to where he is by obeying the vatican.

    This is simply the evidence of what everyone knew, whether directly of simply by not speaking out about those that were.


  • #2220
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Because the Bishops said that they are very sorry & promise not to do the again? That worked for them for decades

    So when is the current state authorities going to be held to account for not prosecuting criminals ? And how are the current state authorities getting away without doing so ?

    I'm sick of these state apologists as much as the church ones, and the state is the body responsible for administering criminal justice for the victims in Ireland.


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  • #2221
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    So when is the current state authorities going to be held to account for not prosecuting criminals ? And how are the current state authorities getting away without doing so ?

    I'm sick of these state apologists as much as the church ones, and the state is the body responsible for administering criminal justice for the victims in Ireland.

    Same questions over and over. How’s your research going? We’re all waiting to hear the exact individuals responsible for the various crimes and particularly the film one.


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